Can science prove or disprove "God"?

[+joc]

6 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

You're still promoting the mental virus ("God") that started this mess, how can you call yourself compassionate?

 This Thread is starting to remind me of the thread with the guy who thinks he has created a machine that defies gravity. You can only tell him so many ways that it is not possible but still he continues on with his belief that he has discovered such a device.

 To actually claim that another person is a hypocrite and has no compassion because they don't believe what you do is completely egomaniacal.

 You are ignoring the evidence. You are ignoring the evidence. You are ignoring the evidence. I'm not ignoring a damn thing...there is no evidence. Other than one person's interpretation of an ancient manuscript that has been interpreted to the nth degree over millennia.

If I'm  not mistaken...and I am not....the rules of the forum totally disallow the preaching of one's own belief system.  And also disallow the beratement of other individuals for their beliefs.

It is patently ridiculous...not to mention it is completely off topic.

If this were kindergarten... which honestly it kind of feels like it is sometimes... Then some people in the room would get an F on the report card And a note sent home to Mommy that reads: Does not play well with others.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

15 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But this is what I have been trying to say.

If you read the OT without any religious bias etc, then the story goes quite differently to what we have been told. And yes, apparently humanity did walk, talk, serve and even make deals with these gods. At least that was what was written.

The pain and suffering has come afterwards with the idea that actually, these gods were really the One omnipotent God of Creation, when the actual words "God" and "Creation" are not even in the OT.

So there was a power grab. All the gods of antiquity that were there for everyone, suddenly became the One True God, whose truth was contained within a Book, and that only a priest class could read and understand. And from this point humanity has been going down hill away from Spirit and into the material world.

Btw, there is nothing in the OT concerning the afterlife, it is enteirly devoted to gaining as much "stuff" in this life as possible, no matter for morals or ethics.

 

Somehow you managed to completely misunderstand what I wrote.

On 16/3/2018 at 0:28 AM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

It doesn't really matter to me if the bible is translated differently, until I see evidence for the biblical God I still won't believe it anyway. I think the same is true for a lot of atheists. Why is that so difficult for you to understand ?

Let me try it again: I don't believe there is a god/gods, so I really don't care what particular version of the bible, or any other religious text, you believe is true. I don't believe any of them are true. 

Is that more clear ? 

[Crazy Horse]

15 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

You're still promoting the mental virus ("God") that started this mess, how can you call yourself compassionate?

This mess has been created by humanity not God, try taking responcibility for yourself and stop blaming something that is outside of your control and start to retake control. Once enought folk retake control of their own lives, then we can all start to clean up this mess and we can all start to enjoy this life.

My view is not only compassionate but practical as well.

Or, we can all sit around, moaning, complaining about God did this, God did that, and do nothing whilst the whole world slides into WWII, aka, Armageddon. Thats really compassionate MC!

[Crazy Horse]

6 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Somehow you managed to completely misunderstand what I wrote.

Let me try it again: I don't believe there is a god/gods, so I really don't care what particular version of the bible, or any other religious text, you believe is true. I don't believe any of them are true. 

Is that more clear ? t 

Fine, stick your head in the sand along with Joc and all the others, and see what happens.

A belief in God is neither here nor there. You can be an atheist and still see that what was written in the OT, and what we have been told are two different things, and you can be an atheist and still see that these lies have cost the lives of millions upon millions of deaths world wide, even whole cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth. That these lies have given the Church the "authority" to act in truly diabolical ways, and they even explain our slide into materialism.

So somehow, I think it is you who has not understood me.

Reread what I have written without any bias and then reply.

[I'mConvinced]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Or, we can all sit around, moaning, complaining about God did this, God did that, and do nothing whilst the whole world slides into WWII, aka, Armageddon. Thats really compassionate MC!

We've already had WWII.

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

A belief in God is neither here nor there. You can be an atheist and still see that what was written in the OT, and what we have been told are two different things, and you can be an atheist and still see that these lies have cost the lives of millions upon millions of deaths world wide, even whole cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth. That these lies have given the Church the "authority" to act in truly diabolical ways, and they even explain our slide into materialism.

And so instead of seeing through the lies written in one text, and trying to find your own way, you pick up yet another text and hold THAT as the be all and end all? Can you not see that the problem IS people thinking they know what's best and what's right for everyone? Can you not see that you are simply furthering the problems associated with thinking YOU know the answers?

[GoldenWolf]

4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

This mess has been created by humanity not God, try taking responcibility for yourself and stop blaming something that is outside of your control and start to retake control. Once enought folk retake control of their own lives, then we can all start to clean up this mess and we can all start to enjoy this life.

My view is not only compassionate but practical as well.

Or, we can all sit around, moaning, complaining about God did this, God did that, and do nothing whilst the whole world slides into WWII, aka, Armageddon. Thats really compassionate MC!

We are trying to do something, we are trying to fix the god virus that created this mess. We don't take control of ourselves with "God", we do it without "God". It's a very unhealthy bond.

[jmccr8]

8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Fine, stick your head in the sand along with Joc and all the others, and see what happens.

A belief in God is neither here nor there. You can be an atheist and still see that what was written in the OT, and what we have been told are two different things, and you can be an atheist and still see that these lies have cost the lives of millions upon millions of deaths world wide, even whole cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth. That these lies have given the Church the "authority" to act in truly diabolical ways, and they even explain our slide into materialism.

So somehow, I think it is you who has not understood me.

Reread what I have written without any bias and then reply.

Hi Crazy Horse

I don't really follow your line of reasoning here, if people don't believe in a god concept how do you figure that they are blaming god. What I do see is people who don't believe in a god concept ask if there is a god why does god as described act/ react or do nothing. They are not questioning their beliefs, they are questioning yours or others like yourself. Telling people that they have their head in the sand is a ridiculous comment as they see man as the source of the problem, is it possible that you have your head in the sand because you fail to see the argument clearly?

In short what you have shown is that your temperament even as a claimed enlightened person is a fine example why these acts of men are and have been prevalent throughout history. I would ask you to help get that splinter out of my eye but I think that the log in your eye might make that a risky task.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Fine, stick your head in the sand along with Joc and all the others, and see what happens.

A belief in God is neither here nor there. You can be an atheist and still see that what was written in the OT, and what we have been told are two different things, and you can be an atheist and still see that these lies have cost the lives of millions upon millions of deaths world wide, even whole cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth. That these lies have given the Church the "authority" to act in truly diabolical ways, and they even explain our slide into materialism.

So somehow, I think it is you who has not understood me.

Reread what I have written without any bias and then reply.

 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Fine, stick your head in the sand along with Joc and all the others, and see what happens.

As Joc and all the others seem to be reasonable people, who aren't obsessed by religious text, I will do that.  So far I've been doing it for 44 years and it have worked out quite well.

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

A belief in God is neither here nor there.

Of course it is. If you don't believe in god, you don't believe in the bible, and thus it doesn't matter who translated it. I thought that was a pretty simple concept.

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You can be an atheist and still see that what was written in the OT, and what we have been told are two different things, and you can be an atheist and still see that these lies have cost the lives of millions upon millions of deaths world wide, even whole cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth.

These things have been done by other religions too, so it stands to reason that the problem lies in religion, not one particular translation of it. 

Not that religion allways lead to bad things, it doesn't, but it have shown itself to be a perfect way for people to justify behaviour that would otherwise be considered unacceptable.

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

That these lies have given the Church the "authority" to act in truly diabolical ways, and they even explain our slide into materialism.

There really isn't just one church, there are thousands of religious denominations. Yours is just another one of them as far as I'm concerned.

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

So somehow, I think it is you who has not understood me.

Can you show me verifable proof that your interpretation of god is the real one ? If that is the case I will certainly believe you, but until then I will remain unconvinced that there is a god. Its really that simple to me.

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Reread what I have written without any bias and then reply.

I am biased so I can't do that, and I very much suspect that you can't do that either if you have to be honest. 

[Crazy Horse]

9 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

We are trying to do something, we are trying to fix the god virus that created this mess. We don't take control of ourselves with "God", we do it without "God". It's a very unhealthy bond.

Do you even believe in god/God?

Please be as precise as possible...xx

Perhaps then we can find a common ground?

[Crazy Horse]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

Hi Sher..

I cannot access any video posted on these boards..

If you want, wish, to give a cliff notes description of the vid, then please do.

I would be more than happy to respond to anyones genuine interests..

[GoldenWolf]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Do you even believe in god/God?

Please be as precise as possible...xx

Perhaps then we can find a common ground?

I believe the Abrahamic God to be the horned god.  A human (a might is right malignant and sexually narcissistic madman) that had a cult following thousands of years ago.  It ended being exalted because of other like minded people.

[XenoFish]

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

 

Of course it is. If you don't believe in god, you don't believe in the bible, and thus it doesn't matter who translated it. I thought that was a pretty simple concept.

 

Can you show me verifable proof that your interpretation of god is the real one ? If that is the case I will certainly believe you, but until then I will remain unconvinced that there is a god. Its really that simple to me.

Your first point..

It is not a matter of who translated it, nor even what was actually said, that is not the main issue here!

What is the main issue here is this, that what was written, and what was told to us, are in fact, two different things.

That is in fact - is my only point.

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

6 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

I believe the Abrahamic God to be the horned god.  A human (a might is right malignant and sexually narcissistic madman) that had a cult following thousands of years ago.  It ended being exalted because of other like minded people.

And I agree..

So whats the problem between you and I?

[Crazy Horse]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

"And an even wiser man gives cliff notes, or at least some kinda explanation.."

[Crazy Horse]

22 hours ago, joc said:

 

 To actually claim that another person is a hypocrite and has no compassion because they don't believe what you do is completely egomaniacal.

 

My Friend...

I really do not have much of an opinion about what you believe in, or not!

The only thing I am actually interested in, is the truth.

Nothing more, nothing less..

Love is the best. 

 

[GoldenWolf]

26 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And I agree..

So whats the problem between you and I?

You've acknowledged the corruption of religions, but you are in denial that the "God" of said religions is a corrupt abomination and are trying to recreate a false personification of said God.

[Crazy Horse]

7 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

You've acknowledged the corruption of religions, but you are in denial that the "God" of said religions is a corrupt abomination and are trying to recreate a false personification of said God.

Ok...

I feel that we are getting somewhere..

Where that is, exactly, remains to be seen!

See heres the difference, heres the rub..

What you call God, I call god.

Apart from that - what is our difference? 

Because really, I do not see too many.

 

[GoldenWolf]

52 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Ok...

I feel that we are getting somewhere..

Where that is, exactly, remains to be seen!

See heres the difference, heres the rub..

What you call God, I call god.

Apart from that - what is our difference? 

Because really, I do not see too many.

 

Are you under the impression there is a good god out there related to the bible?  I know better.

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Mystic Crusader said:

I believe the Abrahamic God to be the horned god.  A human (a might is right malignant and sexually narcissistic madman) that had a cult following thousands of years ago.  It ended being exalted because of other like minded people.

Just out of curiousity how does that work exactly as the modern Abrahamic God, Yahweh, is a merging of the ancient Midianite deity Yahweh who was a mountain god (but not a Creator deity) with the Canaanite god El who WAS a Creator deity? No human required. 

cormac

[GoldenWolf]

6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Just out of curiousity how does that work exactly as the modern Abrahamic God, Yahweh, is a merging of the ancient Midianite deity Yahweh who was a mountain god (but not a Creator deity) with the Canaanite god El who WAS a Creator deity? No human required. 

cormac

Someone declared them self a God, and just like gossip, it was greatly twisted and exaggerated, and spread like a wildfire, just like gossip. 

Notice the keyword gossip.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Mystic Crusader

[Crazy Horse]

9 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Are you under the impression there is a good god out there related to the bible?  I know better.

Well, to be honest MC, I see the gods of the OT to be fcking *******s..

Except the ones who were actually good folk..

Its a little complicated...

Edited March 17, 2018 by Crazy Horse

[cormac mac airt]

33 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Someone declared them self a God, and just like gossip, it was greatly twisted and exaggerated, and spread like a wildfire, just like gossip. 

Notice the keyword gossip.

There’s no evidence that the ancient Midianites knew of an individual who made such a declaration, but ok. Your scenario has more going for it than Biglino’s translation of the Masoretic Text while purposely ignoring previous and more ancient Judeo-Christian texts. 

Edit to add:  As the Masoretic Texts only date to the mid-first millenia AD and NOT prior to either Christ or the religion named for him then such a claim as you’ve made should be seen as a willful lie IMO. 

cormac

Edited March 17, 2018 by cormac mac airt

[Crazy Horse]

6 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Someone declared them self a God, and just like gossip, it was greatly twisted and exaggerated, and spread like a wildfire, just like gossip. 

Notice the keyword gossip.

It was a little more complex than that..

There were many gods, Elohim... plural for god, ie, gods..

Mosss made a pact.... And the world is how it is today..