Can science prove or disprove "God"?

[cormac mac airt]

3 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

So is creative cynicism.  

You made the claim, put up or.....well, you know the rest. 

cormac

[Doug1029]

16 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

Good.. now a few people are asking the right questions. You are scientist thought? Specializing in Tree rings perhaps? 

Dendrochronology, climate, forestry and a little bit of weather.

[Doug1029]

20 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

Indeed I can present evidence both statistical and empirical that there is a designer. Label it god if you will. I'm just making sure you are prepared for it. 

OK.  So let's get off of dead center and do it.

Doug

[SeekerWCF]

11 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

Dendrochronology, climate, forestry and a little bit of weather.

Ha! I forget the names around here. I used to be white crane feather. We have hashed things out before you and I. 

[SeekerWCF]

13 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

Yes, let's hear it. You may want to watch this short video by Neil deGrasse Tyson first - "Intelligent Design" simply equates to Stupid Design, and he's so, so, right:

 

Oh boy. I thought we were not going to engage in assuming our own conclusions? Was I wrong? Love me some Tyson. I almost crashed his hotel room for an autograph when I used my Jedi mind tricks on a hotel hostess to find out which hotel room he was staying in a few days before the total solar eclipse in Boise Idaho, but my respect for the man prevented me from acting like a groupie. 

Will somebody tell the newbie that White Crane Feather is back and just as arrogant and well traveled. :devil

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by SeekerWCF

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

Will somebody tell the newbie that White Crane Feather is back and just as arrogant and well traveled. :devil

 

Are you supposed to be someone important? Cause I'm not seeing it. 

[SeekerWCF]

36 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You made the claim, put up or.....well, you know the rest. 

cormac

 

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Are you supposed to be someone important? Cause I'm not seeing it. 

Hahahah not important ahahhaah. Just having fun I have some work to do, but I'll present my argument sometime tonight or maybe tomorrow afternoon, but nothing has changed around here. Lots of moody militant wanna be agnostics. Talk to you Latter.

Edited February 12, 2018 by SeekerWCF

[khol]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Khol, it is shameful to be sure, disgusting, a stain on humanities soul, but I believe that God gave us free will, so it is humanity that are responsible for these crimes against our brothers and sisters, perhaps one day we will wake-up to our culpability towards helping each other and stop blaming God?

Khol, do you believe in God?

If not, then who exactly is to blame for this completely needless pain and suffering?

The example should be an indicator for everyone that god doesn't exist. A red flag.Thats all Im saying. I certainly am not blaming god for anything as there never was one to begin with. Seriously I think science has better things to do then try and prove something that lies in the realms of mythology...hopefully that answers part of your question

Humanity is to blame for the suffering not a god . We have the resources to end it but it continues

I resent when free will is brought up as a way of skirting the poverty issue

What you think of as free will is actually just biological responses in your brain

very short video   couple minutes

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker

Edited February 12, 2018 by khol
added link

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, SeekerWCF said:

Good.. now a few people are asking the right questions. You are scientist thought? Specializing in Tree rings perhaps? 

You sound very much like someone that started a new membership and was a member here before.

jmccr8 

[SeekerWCF]

4 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

You sound very much like someone that started a new membership and was a member here before.

jmccr8 

I used to be White Crane Feather. I stopped using that email, and forgot the password, so I just made a new account. I'm actually sort of old friends with most people here. Prior to that my handle was seeker79. I chose this handle so that people would recognize it's me. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by SeekerWCF

[jmccr8]

14 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

I used to be White Crane Feather. I stopped using that email, and forgot the password, so I just made a new account. I'm actually sort of old friends with most people here. Prior to that my handle was seeker79. I chose this handle so that people would recognize it's me. 

Yes there seemed to be something familiar in your posting style.

jmccr8 

[Crazy Horse]

9 hours ago, khol said:

The example should be an indicator for everyone that god doesn't exist. A red flag.Thats all Im saying. I certainly am not blaming god for anything as there never was one to begin with. Seriously I think science has better things to do then try and prove something that lies in the realms of mythology...hopefully that answers part of your question

Humanity is to blame for the suffering not a god . We have the resources to end it but it continues

I resent when free will is brought up as a way of skirting the poverty issue

What you think of as free will is actually just biological responses in your brain

very short video   couple minutes

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker

Good morning Mr Khol, how are you today?

I agree that there is a huge red flag here, but it is in no way pointing to the belief that there is no God, but to the lack of human compassion and vision. With the gifts of life and free will come great responsibilities, to help those less fortunate than ourselves, but as we can see, we have been sadly neglecting those duties far too often.

Free will isnt a way to skirt around poverty and the such, no, free will and a lack of compassion are the very reasons why this is happening. Free Will is the driver running the bulldozer through these peoples lives. A free will driven by understanding and compassion would ensure fresh water, electricity, a job to earn a living - and from there who knows what is possible?

You might want to dismiss free will, but this belief is very empowering, I take responcibility, I take control of my life, I feel love and compassion, I want to see a better day for the whole of humanity, and so I consciously work towards those goals. I don't mind if you call this free will or biological responcives, to me it makes no difference whatsoever.

You have a great day now.

[Doug1029]

17 hours ago, khol said:

Seriously I think science has better things to do then try and prove something that lies in the realms of mythology...

Certainly, you won't get a grant to try it.

Doug

[khol]

9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Good morning Mr Khol, how are you today?

I agree that there is a huge red flag here, but it is in no way pointing to the belief that there is no God, but to the lack of human compassion and vision. With the gifts of life and free will come great responsibilities, to help those less fortunate than ourselves, but as we can see, we have been sadly neglecting those duties far too often.

Free will isnt a way to skirt around poverty and the such, no, free will and a lack of compassion are the very reasons why this is happening. Free Will is the driver running the bulldozer through these peoples lives. A free will driven by understanding and compassion would ensure fresh water, electricity, a job to earn a living - and from there who knows what is possible?

You might want to dismiss free will, but this belief is very empowering, I take responcibility, I take control of my life, I feel love and compassion, I want to see a better day for the whole of humanity, and so I consciously work towards those goals. I don't mind if you call this free will or biological responcives, to me it makes no difference whatsoever.

You have a great day now.

Im fine thankyou

I hear often how god 'gave' us free will. Which is why I suppose it bothers me 

you as well enjoy your day 

are you a Niel Young fan by any chance ?    

Edited February 13, 2018 by khol

[Doug1029]

24 minutes ago, khol said:

Im fine thankyou

I hear often how god 'gave' us free will. Which is why I suppose it bothers me 

you as well enjoy your day 

are you a Niel Young fan by any chance ?    

"Free Will" is what the Pelagian Heresy was all about.  This issue has been discussed and fought over for 1500 years without resolution.  Pelagius took the free will side and Augustine took the predestination side.  Each admitted the other had some points, but in the end, Pope Honorius excommunicated Pelagius because some anti-church rebels had adopted Pelagianism.  Politics won the day.

Doug

Edited February 13, 2018 by Doug1029

[Doug1029]

Why would one invoke god when god is not necessary to explain nature?

If there is any connection between god and nature, it has yet to be found.  As Carl Sagan expressed it:  We haven't found any indication of heaven, at least not out to ten billion light-years.

Or put another way:  I believe in god.  I spell god:  N-A-T-U-R-E.

Doug

[Essan]

As I have often said, if you read any religious text and replace the word god (or its equivalent) with nature, it all makes far more sense ....

[Crazy Horse]

35 minutes ago, khol said:

Im fine thankyou

I hear often how god 'gave' us free will. Which is why I suppose it bothers me 

you as well enjoy your day 

are you a Niel Young fan by any chance ?    

Hello Mr Khol

Whether God gave us free will or not is kind of a moot point in any case. I mean neither you nor I blame God for all this poverty, admittedly for different reasons, but at least we agree upon that point..

But the problem remains.

So why are there so many children dying in a world of plenty?

We can put a car into space, build underground cities, split the atom, and yet we cannot feed the world. So what exactly is the issue here, how can the West throw away millions of tons of food each year and stand by scratching our backsides whilst trying to forget the thousands of folk who suffer needlessly?

Free Will is the only player in town. We can choose to ignore this horrendous situation, or we can look at it. We can choose to speak out or remain silent, and we can choose to help in any way possible. Our governments could decide to give real, lasting aid to get these countries back on their feet.

So basically I am asking why do you think that the idea of free will is in any way skirting the issue? (post # 761)

I really dont understand.

And btw, no, Im not a big fan of NY, more The Bees are my cup o tea.

 

 

[khol]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Hello Mr Khol

Whether God gave us free will or not is kind of a moot point in any case. I mean neither you nor I blame God for all this poverty, admittedly for different reasons, but at least we agree upon that point..

But the problem remains.

So why are there so many children dying in a world of plenty?

We can put a car into space, build underground cities, split the atom, and yet we cannot feed the world. So what exactly is the issue here, how can the West throw away millions of tons of food each year and stand by scratching our backsides whilst trying to forget the thousands of folk who suffer needlessly?

Free Will is the only player in town. We can choose to ignore this horrendous situation, or we can look at it. We can choose to speak out or remain silent, and we can choose to help in any way possible. Our governments could decide to give real, lasting aid to get these countries back on their feet.

So basically I am asking why do you think that the idea of free will is in any way skirting the issue? (post # 761)

I really dont understand.

And btw, no, Im not a big fan of NY, more The Bees are my cup o tea.

 

 

my point being a creator would not inflict such pain on its creation    therefore one does not exist   its valid

your way of getting around this and completely squashing that arguement ( skirting the issue ) is by saying we inflict the pain because god gave us the free will to do so   wrong

of course humanity is responsible but its not because of being granted free will by a god

humans are innately evil on many unseen levels. Free will to do things is a natural occurence of our reality. The evil parts manifest in things like allowing poverty to continue and many other examples. 

 Free will has nothing to do with a god yet you use it as a way to shield your god from any responsibility for what its created. 

When the true reality is a true and loving god would not have such a backassward plan and inflict such pain to set an example

Do you understand how ridiculous that is?  The simple solution would be human suffering shows a god doesnt exist

on a lighter note Niel Youngs back up band is crazy horse      you do have a cool name ill say that

cheers 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eight bits]

Doug

Quote

Certainly, you won't get a grant to try it.

There's always the Templeton Foundation.

 

[khol]

3 hours ago, eight bits said:

Doug

There's always the Templeton Foundation.

 

no harm in trying...its how we move forward

[Doug1029]

20 hours ago, eight bits said:

Doug

There's always the Templeton Foundation.

 

It baffles me why people who say they don't need science to validate their belief in god, nevertheless try to use science to prove god.  Does not compute.  Oh, ye of little faith.

Doug

Edited February 14, 2018 by Doug1029

[Miikee]

If science somehow manages to one day raise the dead, then we might actually get some answers... Until then, all we can do is believe in whatever we choose to believe and wait til we die to find out if it's true or not

[GoldenWolf]

On 2/2/2018 at 1:53 PM, eight bits said:

If God has free will, then there's hope for us, too.

Not if said God is nothing more than a might is right psychopath.

[cormac mac airt]

On 2/14/2018 at 1:51 PM, Doug1o29 said:

It baffles me why people who say they don't need science to validate their belief in god, nevertheless try to use science to prove god.  Does not compute.  Oh, ye of little faith.

Doug

I agree, isn't it hilarious? Even more-so when they claim that's NOT what they're doing.

cormac