Can science prove or disprove "God"?

[psyche101]

13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

How? Because there were contracts made, burnt flesh etc.

What???? 

Your making no sense here. Omnipotent being being held by contracts and burning flesh???? 

Seriously man WTF. 

13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But you are right, Yahweh isn't an omnipotent being - thats my point!

Your missing the point. 

Its a man made story. 

13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And Jesus isnt in the OT.

Not sure what that has to do with anything? Jesus is the sequel to the OT. 

[psyche101]

19 hours ago, joc said:

Very much to the point!

Watched his latest stand up on Netflix last night. The man is brilliant

[psyche101]

13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

The only point I am trying to make here, is that what is actually written in the OT, without the ideological and dogmatic bias, it NOT the same thing that we have been told. And thats all I am trying to get across here.

 

Told by whom? 

[psyche101]

13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, not my truth, just what was written, and what has been told.

Are you ignoring this simple truth too?

Ignoring what? 

The simple truth is what observation tells us, and that illustrates A natural universe. Shoehorning God legends into discovery with imaginative hindsight convolutes these discoveries and undermines the good work scoence does. 

Your just not making any sense. I don't accept superstition as valid. Nobody should to be honest. 

Your ignoring simple solutions and convoluting them with myth. 

[jmccr8]

6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not sharing my frustration doesn't make you a hypocrite, this I can agree with, but what does make you a hypocrite is claiming to want to know the truth, claiming to have compassion for folk, and yet ignoring some hugely important evidence that shows exactly how devious and diabolical the Church has been acting. This makes you a hypocrite.

Can you understand that?

Hi Crazy Horse

I don't know but if you want to discuss your position that is fine and we listen which is what is fair in a discussion. There is no requirement to agree or believe so if one doesn't agree that doesn't mean that they are a hypocrite or ignorant, just that they don't agree or they have their own point of view. Getting all worked up about it is pointless and less productive. You came here to be stimulated and learn,right, because that is what happens in a debate.

jmccr8

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

It doesn't really matter to me if the bible is translated differently, until I see evidence for the biblical God I still won't believe it anyway. I think the same is true for a lot of atheists. Why is that so difficult for you to understand ?

[XenoFish]

I still don't know what any of this has to do with proving god does/n't exist. A fictional being can 'exist' in peoples minds and imaginations. No problem, but proving something like a god (any god) exist. That's impossible. We don't even have a real definition of god. It's just magical thinking.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I still don't know what any of this has to do with proving god does/n't exist. A fictional being can 'exist' in peoples minds and imaginations. No problem, but proving something like a god (any god) exist. That's impossible. We don't even have a real definition of god. It's just magical thinking.

It is amazing how much pain and suffering there have been because people disagrees about the nature of a being none of them have ever seen. 

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

It is amazing how much pain and suffering there have been because people disagrees about the nature of a being none of them have ever seen. 

And aren’t remotely qualified to psychoanalyze. 

cormac

[XenoFish]

53 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

It is amazing how much pain and suffering there have been because people disagrees about the nature of a being none of them have ever seen. 

What's worse is they know "its will". 

[Crazy Horse]

11 hours ago, joc said:

 You're making this personal Crazy Horse and it just isn't. Don't bother posting me back I'm done with it!

All I wanted to know was how could someone who claims to want to know the truth, and claims to empathise with humanity, then blatently and repeatedly ignore some extraordinary information concerning the welfare of humanity, and some incredible lies too, that has been the source of untold pain and misery, which in fact continues today!

Something doesn't add up, please explain.

[Crazy Horse]

10 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

You're trying to change my argument so no, I won't respond to a point I wasn't making. You were wrong to bring his compassion into the debate, end of story from my perspective. 

 

 

No, I wasn't changing anything, I never claimed that a lack of information equals a lack of compassion, that was your spin, your lack of comprehension, your bias,  your bad! I never claimed such a thing.

What I actually said was that it is the ignoring of this information that makes him a hypocrite especially after claiming to want to know the truth, and claiming to be an empathetic person.

I would have only mentioned it the once but Joc, who apparently isnt interested, keeps bringing it up, as do you.

[Crazy Horse]

9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What???? 

Your making no sense here. Omnipotent being being held by contracts and burning flesh???? 

Seriously man WTF. 

Your missing the point. 

Its a man made story. 

Not sure what that has to do with anything? Jesus is the sequel to the OT. 

Its not me that is making no sense but those in the Church claiming to speak for an omnipotent God. So yes, its a man made story, one that may or may not be true. The only point I am trying to make is that what was written in the first place, isn't what is being told to us today. And that these lies have had terrible consequences for those folks outside of the Church, and all those who follow these lies too.   

If you care to comment upon this one point then please do.

Hay psyche, I really dont feel that you are trying to engage with me in any honest attempt to even try to understand me, or any of the points I am trying to make. So, this is your last chance, engage, debate, talk, chat, with me genuinely, or go on the ignore list. Your choice!

[Crazy Horse]

8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I still don't know what any of this has to do with proving god does/n't exist. A fictional being can 'exist' in peoples minds and imaginations. No problem, but proving something like a god (any god) exist. That's impossible. We don't even have a real definition of god. It's just magical thinking.

Well there is a tie-in, just, and that is, if the Church cannot even tell the truth about the gods in the OT, then I very much doubt that science can prove a God either.

And btw, we do have a real definition of God, a definition for our level of understanding at least, and that is, "Infinite Living Mind".

Infinite, because if IT wasnt Infinite IT wouldn't be THE ALL, and if it wasn't THE ALL, then IT wouldn't be God.

Living, because only life can beget life. 

Mind, because if you were THE ALL, the only way to create is via the mind.

That is the best definition of what God is, comprehensible to our limited abilities to understand right now.. But at least it is a workable definition for those of us who wish to talk about such things. Otherwise discussions about God would not be possible.

But if you are actuall talking about the gods of the OT, then they are advanced, mortal beings who make mistakes, fight, have moral ambiguity etc.. 

[Crazy Horse]

8 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

It is amazing how much pain and suffering there have been because people disagrees about the nature of a being none of them have ever seen. 

But this is what I have been trying to say.

If you read the OT without any religious bias etc, then the story goes quite differently to what we have been told. And yes, apparently humanity did walk, talk, serve and even make deals with these gods. At least that was what was written.

The pain and suffering has come afterwards with the idea that actually, these gods were really the One omnipotent God of Creation, when the actual words "God" and "Creation" are not even in the OT.

So there was a power grab. All the gods of antiquity that were there for everyone, suddenly became the One True God, whose truth was contained within a Book, and that only a priest class could read and understand. And from this point humanity has been going down hill away from Spirit and into the material world.

Btw, there is nothing in the OT concerning the afterlife, it is enteirly devoted to gaining as much "stuff" in this life as possible, no matter for morals or ethics.

 

[I'mConvinced]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I never claimed that a lack of information equals a lack of compassion, that was your spin, your lack of comprehension, your bias,  your bad!

Sorry but no, you claimed exactly that, among other accusations and name calling.  Read your own words below:

19 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

claiming to have compassion for folk, and yet ignoring some hugely important evidence

In the above statement, even given the entire context in which it was written, you clearly try to link his claim of being a compassionate person to knowledge of evidence.  Evidence has nothing to do with your capacity to feel compassion, period.  To say he is not compassionate based solely on him not wanting to engage with your so called 'evidence' is ludicrous at best and I stand by my previous assessment.

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

What I actually said was that it is the ignoring of this information that makes him a hypocrite especially after claiming to want to know the truth, and claiming to be an empathetic person.

What you actually said is printed above.  You may have meant something different but that isn't what you typed out in actual words.

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All I wanted to know was how could someone who claims to want to know the truth, and claims to empathise with humanity, then blatently and repeatedly ignore some extraordinary information concerning the welfare of humanity, and some incredible lies too, that has been the source of untold pain and misery, which in fact continues today!

Something doesn't add up, please explain.

What doesn't add up is Maurio Biglino's 'interpretation' of the Bible.  I think you have bought into a lot of crap if you want to know the truth.  His version of truth is no different than anyone elses version of 'truth'.  It is an interpretation of ancient texts, written by ancient men, in an ancient world, who had no idea about weather, or volcanoes, or dinosaurs, or the solar system, or the galaxies.

It's crap CH and I am not interested in your passion for crap.  Got it?  Good!

His interpretation...His conclusions...not mine.  You want to believe that bs ...by all means...believe it...but stop harassing me because I don't.  Copy that?

Edited March 16, 2018 by joc

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, I'mConvinced said:

Sorry but no, you claimed exactly that, among other accusations and name calling.  Read your own words below:

In the above statement, even given the entire context in which it was written, you clearly try to link his claim of being a compassionate person to knowledge of evidence.  Evidence has nothing to do with your capacity to feel compassion, period.  To say he is not compassionate based solely on him not wanting to engage with your so called 'evidence' is ludicrous at best and I stand by my previous assessment.

What you actually said is printed above.  You may have meant something different but that isn't what you typed out in actual words.

No, not knowledge of evidence, but the ignoring of evidence. 

All I actually said was that someone who claims to want to know the truth, and claims to want to help folk, yet ignores truly shocking and vital information, is in fact a hypocrite. Thats not name calling, thats a matter of fact.

It is not whether someone has enough information or not that makes that person compassionate or not, I agree, no one has all the info in the world, everyone lacks some information to one degree or another, and yet we have very compassionate folk in the world today..

But when a person, after claiming to be compassionate, is deliberately ignoring some truly paradigm shifting information that has hurt millions of folk throughout history - This is what makes someone a hypocrite, and its within this hypocrisy that puts paid to the lie that he is compassionate. A compassionate person would not ignore relevant information like this.

You cannot claim compassion by totally ignoring such shocking evidence. If Joc had bothered to look, debate, chat and eventually disagree with me, then not a problem.

 

[Crazy Horse]

20 minutes ago, joc said:

What doesn't add up is Maurio Biglino's 'interpretation' of the Bible.  I think you have bought into a lot of crap if you want to know the truth.  His version of truth is no different than anyone elses version of 'truth'.  It is an interpretation of ancient texts, written by ancient men, in an ancient world, who had no idea about weather, or volcanoes, or dinosaurs, or the solar system, or the galaxies.

It's crap CH and I am not interested in your passion for crap.  Got it?  Good!

His interpretation...His conclusions...not mine.  You want to believe that bs ...by all means...believe it...but stop harassing me because I don't.  Copy that?

What exactly is crap about his interpretation?

And actually, his version of the truth is different from everybody else's version, thats the point that you cannot seem to comprehend.

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

What exactly is crap about his interpretation?

And actually, his version of the truth is different from everybody else's version, thats the point that you cannot seem to comprehend.

I comprehend it very well.  What I'm not really comprehending is your obsession with it.  And with that....poof...like the wind blowing outside of my window...shooooooooosh......I'm outta here......

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, joc said:

I comprehend it very well.  What I'm not really comprehending is your obsession with it.  And with that....poof...like the wind blowing outside of my window...shooooooooosh......I'm outta here......

If you comprend it very well, then why just state that his interpretation is no different from anybody else's?

And my "obsession" with it is simple, it explains why our history has been so full of bloodshed, it explains why the Church has acted in such a diabolical way, it explains why we have sunk into materialism......

Something any normal, compassionate person might be "obsessed" with..

[I'mConvinced]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But when a person, after claiming to be compassionate, is deliberately ignoring some truly paradigm shifting information that has hurt millions of folk throughout history - This is what makes someone a hypocrite, and its within this hypocrisy that puts paid to the lie that he is compassionate. A compassionate person would not ignore relevant information like this.

You cannot claim compassion by totally ignoring such shocking evidence.

You can be a compassionate person without examining all relevant information. Stop conflating a failure to examine evidence with how compassionate a person is, the two things are not linked.

If he had looked at the evidence and stated he didn't care about the people involved that might show a lack of compassion. Not looking in the first place says nothing at all about how compassionate someone is. Your inability to grasp this staggers me.

So you shouldn't have said he lacks compassion, especially with the only evidence being his unwillingness to consider something he doesn't regard as holding any value.

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, not knowledge of evidence, but the ignoring of evidence. 

All I actually said was that someone who claims to want to know the truth, and claims to want to help folk, yet ignores truly shocking and vital information, is in fact a hypocrite. Thats not name calling, thats a matter of fact.

It is not whether someone has enough information or not that makes that person compassionate or not, I agree, no one has all the info in the world, everyone lacks some information to one degree or another, and yet we have very compassionate folk in the world today..

But when a person, after claiming to be compassionate, is deliberately ignoring some truly paradigm shifting information that has hurt millions of folk throughout history - This is what makes someone a hypocrite, and its within this hypocrisy that puts paid to the lie that he is compassionate. A compassionate person would not ignore relevant information like this.

You cannot claim compassion by totally ignoring such shocking evidence. If Joc had bothered to look, debate, chat and eventually disagree with me, then not a problem.

 

Hi Crazy Horse

Subjective evidence is just that, subjective and without validation so it is not ignoring so much as not taking seriously parts of what you are proposing. Understand you may think you got it all cases and for you in your mind that is fine but you are not special, you are a member of a discussion forum so expect to meet people who are not like you.

jmccr8

[Crazy Horse]

46 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

You can be a compassionate person without examining all relevant information. Stop conflating a failure to examine evidence with how compassionate a person is, the two things are not linked.

If he had looked at the evidence and stated he didn't care about the people involved that might show a lack of compassion. Not looking in the first place says nothing at all about how compassionate someone is. Your inability to grasp this staggers me.

So you shouldn't have said he lacks compassion, especially with the only evidence being his unwillingness to consider something he doesn't regard as holding any value.

No, ignoring relevant information concerning the reasons why we are being led to war, and why we have been lied to, why we have had such a bloody history, why their is so much child abuse, so much deception, so much poverty, crime, corruption in the world today, puts paid to any idea that you are a compassionate person. A compassionate person would look into such things if only to inform themselves of these shocking insights.

How can anyone claim to be compassionate and yet ignore the main reason as to why we are all suffering so much physical, mental, and spiritual degradation on a world wide scale? 

 

[GoldenWolf]

34 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, ignoring relevant information concerning the reasons why we are being led to war, and why we have been lied to, why we have had such a bloody history, why their is so much child abuse, so much deception, so much poverty, crime, corruption in the world today, puts paid to any idea that you are a compassionate person. A compassionate person would look into such things if only to inform themselves of these shocking insights.

How can anyone claim to be compassionate and yet ignore the main reason as to why we are all suffering so much physical, mental, and spiritual degradation on a world wide scale? 

 

You're still promoting the mental virus ("God") that started this mess, how can you call yourself compassionate?