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RoofGardener

Free Speech ?

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Well, my Ghast was somewhat Flabbered when I read this article thismorning.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/college-responds-to-hosting-panel-on-free-speech-by-canceling-it/

It appears that a group of academics where going to host a symposium discussing "The Stifling of Free Speech on University Campuses".

http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/3054862

A small group of left-wing activists threatened to organise a protest against it. (not sure WHY).

The University authorities responded by cancelling the event.

Oh the Irony.

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1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, my Ghast was somewhat Flabbered when I read this article thismorning.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/college-responds-to-hosting-panel-on-free-speech-by-canceling-it/

It appears that a group of academics where going to host a symposium discussing "The Stifling of Free Speech on University Campuses".

http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/3054862

A small group of left-wing activists threatened to organise a protest against it. (not sure WHY).

The University authorities responded by cancelling the event.

Oh the Irony.

Free speech only applies to the government. Universities in the US are private corporations (?), not the government. 

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Oh, I wasn't thinking in terms of mandatory free speech (e.g. speech that is covered by legislation or the constitution).

I guess what got my goat is the seeming trend that discussion seems to be increasingly shut down by threats of violence. Actually, perhaps even that is not quite correct: the idea that discussion and debate can be shut down by "objections" from third parties.

Now, if the symposium had been about something highly controversial or offensive then perhaps I could understand it, but this would presumably have been disallowed ANYWAY on University premises on the basis of the Universities code of conduct.. In THIS case however, it seems that both the topic - and indeed the proposed presenters - where entirely uncontroversial.

Ultimately, in this particular case,  it comes down to irony (although a very dangerous irony in my opinion). A debate on the topic of "Free Speech on University Campus's"  - taking place on a University Campus - was shut down by protestors. (or rather, by the threat of a protest).

Am I the only one who finds this worrying ?

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Free speech only applies to the government. Universities in the US are private corporations (?), not the government. 

Universities in the U.S., especially since the 60's have been the very HEART of the free speech tradition as witnessed by the actions at Berkely during the anti-war demonstrations of the Vietnam era.  Where do you get these ideas, EX?  The tradition of unabridged right to free expression in the marketplace of ideas is the very center of being an American and always has been.  Face it, the modern Leftists are just Brown Shirt throwbacks under a different label.  Their goal is to suppress dissenting ideas and they are being championed by the very institutions that once protected our most precious rights.  The world is upside down.

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4 minutes ago, and then said:

Universities in the U.S., especially since the 60's have been the very HEART of the free speech tradition as witnessed by the actions at Berkely during the anti-war demonstrations of the Vietnam era.  Where do you get these ideas, EX?  The tradition of unabridged right to free expression in the marketplace of ideas is the very center of being an American and always has been.  Face it, the modern Leftists are just Brown Shirt throwbacks under a different label.  Their goal is to suppress dissenting ideas and they are being championed by the very institutions that once protected our most precious rights.  The world is upside down.

You're comparing the left wing to NAZIS, which tells me you are completely disconnected from reality, especially after last weekend. Wow.

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I'm not sure I'd entirely agree with that, And Then ?

Where the Berkley demonstrations about "free speech", or where they merely about being "anti government" ? Or perhaps - more accurately - "anti-establishment".

I worry that the "alt-left" (to use a Trumpism :P ) are now redefining "the establishment" as anything that is NOT liberal socialism. If you disagree with their position, then you are a Fascist, and violence against you is legitimised.

I'm not sure how this relates to the situation at Ryerson university, partly because we don't seem to know precisely WHO the objectors where, or WHY they where objecting.

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3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You're comparing the left wing to NAZIS, which tells me you are completely disconnected from reality, especially after last weekend. Wow.

If they use similar tactics, then the comparison is not unreasonable :)

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10 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You're comparing the left wing to NAZIS, which tells me you are completely disconnected from reality, especially after last weekend. Wow.

I'm stating that the far Left in the U.S., in the form of groups like Antifa, funded by shadowy sources, BEHAVE exactly like the Brownshirts in the 30's.  They use violence and intimidation to disrupt the free expression of ideas by those they disagree with.  If you look at the images from Berkely, earlier this year and deny this then it is YOU who is either disconnected from reality, lying or extremely biased.  The groups of thugs that came spoiling for violence in Charlottesville were reprehensible but they were not the first to behave in such a way this year, were they?  In fact, I would posit that the acceptance by media of the outrage at Berkley gave a tacit approval to the use of violence in political expression.  It is ridiculous to assume that once violence is normalized in any way, it can be restricted to being used by one side only.  To think so is childish.

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Posted (edited)

Ah.. a little more. Apparantly the protest was organised through Facebook. You can see the thread here...

https://www.facebook.com/events/1796435800578808/

In yet another irony, the headline for the protest is "... Unity Rally.... Come together to celebrate the things they'd rather silence us for"

It's all a bit rambling and incoherent, and at no point do they actually state WHAT their objections are.

They state that the panel are all Fascists. Well now.... thats interesting. Here are the panelists.

Dr. Jordan Peterson, clinical psychologist, univ of Toronto professor.
Dr. Gad Saad. Professor of Marketing, holder of the Concordia University Research Chair in Evolutionary Behavioral Sciences and Darwinian Consumption, and advisory fellow at the Center for Inquiry.
Dr. Oren Amitay,clinical psychologist and media consultant.
Faith Goldy, investigative journalist and proud Catholic and conservative. (!?!)

Two tenured professors, a lecturer at Ryerson university (where the symposium was to be held), and a journalist with a chip on her shoulder. They all seem to hold veiwpoints that are right-of-centre (or at least, that challenge left-wing orthodoxy). But... Fascists ? Or is it truly like Manfred Von Driedecks signature quotes ? "Fascism now means nothing more than something/someone I disagree with" (my paraphrase).

 

Edited by RoofGardener
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The protesters showing their true colors I see

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seems like liberal globalists fascists  at work here, there is no way in hell someone from shadows is not pulling strings here.

good for them on canceling it thou, free speech protests, or sitting, whatever you call it,  = antifa, violence, destruction, anti white racism, hate,

Edited by aztek

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26 minutes ago, and then said:

The groups of thugs that came spoiling for violence in Charlottesville were reprehensible

The fact that those on the right are so focused on the counter protesters there speaks volumes to the depths which our nation has fallen. 

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25 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

In yet another irony, the headline for the protest is "... Unity Rally.... Come together to celebrate the things they'd rather silence us for"

Have you looked into Dr. Saad at all? That really seems to be what he wants, to silence voices from the left. 

I would say the irony in this situation is spewing forth from both sides. 

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5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The fact that those on the right are so focused on the counter protesters there speaks volumes to the depths which our nation has fallen. 

Projecting much?  That statement included BOTH sides.  It's difficult to have a fight without opposing parties.  I have NEVER supported Klan or Skinhead types.  Can you say the same of Antifa?  The point of my statement was very clear.  NORMALIZING political violence for anyone normalizes it for EVERYONE.  At the pace we are progressing, it's only a matter of time until some individual or group execute an attack that leads to a firefight among armed protesters.  Multiple dead and wounded and an extreme hardening of attitudes at a time when we desperately need a calm, respectful dialogue between people interested in peace and compromise.  You can choose up sides to vilify but don't kid yourself that anyone wins once this thing gets started.  It is going to be shocking in its ferocity.

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12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Have you looked into Dr. Saad at all? That really seems to be what he wants, to silence voices from the left. 

I would say the irony in this situation is spewing forth from both sides. 

I think they ALL disagree with aspects of socialist liberalism. Or Liberal Socialism. Or whatever we want to call it. However, they all seem to be fairly well respected academics.

However, I'd suggest that is disagreement, not suppression. Surely you aren't saying that the two of synonymous ? Because if THAT was true, half this forum would be continuously suppressing the other half, and visa versa. And the forum would just be a load of blank pages, interspersed with burnt out cars and empty pepper-spray cans. And Saruman would probably have.... views... about that ?

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Just now, and then said:

At the pace we are progressing, it's only a matter of time until some individual or group execute an attack that leads to a firefight among armed protesters

Ill be shocked if we get through this weekend without that happening actually. 

 

Just now, and then said:

Projecting much?  That statement included BOTH sides.  It's difficult to have a fight without opposing parties.

I just dont see this as a time for "whataboutism". Im not a with us or against us kind of guy, i tend to operate in the grey areas. This however is one issue where it is simple, this is one issue where our nation should be able to be in agreeance. Instead what we've seen from the right are responses that start out with a mild condemnation of racism that comes across so fast its like the old "micro machine" commercials and then the long whataboutism diatribes about the left start. Thats seriously disturbing. 

 

 

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Just now, RoofGardener said:

I think they ALL disagree with aspects of socialist liberalism. Or Liberal Socialism. Or whatever we want to call it. However, they all seem to be fairly well respected academics.

However, I'd suggest that is disagreement, not suppression. Surely you aren't saying that the two of synonymous ? Because if THAT was true, half this forum would be continuously suppressing the other half, and visa versa. And the forum would just be a load of blank pages, interspersed with burnt out cars and empty pepper-spray cans. And Saruman would probably have.... views... about that ?

No I agree suppression of free speech is not OK.

I think protesting your university bringing someone who has trumpeted the likes of Milo is OK however.

Just not protesting with the goal of shutting down the conversation. 

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16 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No I agree suppression of free speech is not OK.

I think protesting your university bringing someone who has trumpeted the likes of Milo is OK however.

Just not protesting with the goal of shutting down the conversation. 

I can agree with that.   However, I am getting tired of protests.   I know they must be allowed to continue though. 

This was a poor decision to cancel the event because of the protests against it.    That is something we cannot let become the norm.  

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I'd agree with that.... a protest to register dissent is one thing, but a protest intended to intimidate is an entirely different kettle of aquatic creatures.

I can only assume the university authorities panicked in the wake of Charlottesville. No doubt an in-house lawyer was involved.

Edited by RoofGardener
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4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Free speech only applies to the government. Universities in the US are private corporations (?), not the government. 

Most Universities in the US are State Institutions, not private corps.

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1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

No I agree suppression of free speech is not OK.

I think protesting your university bringing someone who has trumpeted the likes of Milo is OK however.

Just not protesting with the goal of shutting down the conversation. 

Protesting peacefully. Protesting violently is called rioting. That is how antifa "protests".

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Just now, Bama13 said:

Protesting peacefully. Protesting violently is called rioting. That is how antifa "protests".

True but I didnt see any affiliation with ANTIFA in the article. I think its a tad dangerous to label all leftist protests as ANTIFA protests. 

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38 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

True but I didnt see any affiliation with ANTIFA in the article. I think its a tad dangerous to label all leftist protests as ANTIFA protests. 

The University said they were canceling the event due to safety concerns. So they thought the protesters were going to be violent. It is the MO of leftists at protests nowadays. 

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Jordan Peterson has had protesters at pretty much every speaking engagement he has had since he spoke out against legislated speech.

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7 hours ago, Bama13 said:

Protesting peacefully. Protesting violently is called rioting. That is how antifa "protests".

The problem is the Protesters who go to these speaking engagements use air horns to silence the speakers, indoors. 

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