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Philangeli

Why do muslims emigrate to Christian lands

111 posts in this topic

Is it just to make a living?

If so, why doesn't Islam/Allah provide its followers to make a living in their own countries?

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So why don't they emmigrate to other muslim countries  ? Why don't they go to Saudi or Iran or Jordan ? 

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5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

So why don't they emmigrate to other muslim countries  ? Why don't they go to Saudi or Iran or Jordan ? 

A lot of people emigrate to those countries. Even if it might not be considered a step up. And in the end, it's all about opportunities. 

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15 minutes ago, Philangeli said:

If so, why doesn't Islam/Allah provide its followers to make a living in their own countries?

Qatar do pretty well, here are some more which are doing well, 

Quote

Kuwait takes the second position in the list, followed by Brunei Darussalam number 3, United Arab Emirates number 4, Oman number 5, Saudi Arabia number 6, Bahrain number 7, Turkey number 8, and Libya number 9.

https://www.malaysiaworldnews.com/2017/06/24/malaysia-among-top-10-richest-muslim-countries-in-the-world/

maybe they could offer  accommodation to the muslims who are coming to the western world .....because of war :

9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Because a large percentage of them have had their homes destroyed by war 

 I understand that, but why do the above list not accommodate them?  

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Just now, RoofGardener said:

So why don't they emmigrate to other muslim countries  ? Why don't they go to Saudi or Iran or Jordan ? 

I dont believe they'll let them in, but I could be wrong. 

That aside where would you choose to go? 

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps for the same reason Christians moved out of their religions birthplace on the middle east:lol:

Edited by spartan max2
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4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

A lot of people emigrate to those countries. Even if it might not be considered a step up. And in the end, it's all about opportunities. 

What opportunities, some of those muslim countries are doing pretty well, see above post/

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1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

I dont believe they'll let them in, but I could be wrong. 

That aside where would you choose to go? 

why would a muslim country not let in a fellow muslim  when in need and yet the western world take them in?

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Just now, freetoroam said:

why would a muslim country not let in a fellow muslim  when in need and yet the western world take them in?

Resources I would imagine. That and they might not be the right type of muslim. 

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Just now, freetoroam said:

What opportunities, some of those muslim countries are doing pretty well, see above post/

Well, those countries are more centered on themselves. Discrimination is happening a lot among Arabs. Qatar is pretty much a fascist state. You have a lot more opportunities in Europe. 

And a list of the richest Muslim countries doesn't help if we compare them on a global scale. 

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4 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

why would a muslim country not let in a fellow muslim  when in need and yet the western world take them in?

It's not all about the religion. A Christian can't just migrate to another "Christian" nation. I don't see the argument here. 

And if you are talking about the refugees, there are far more in other Muslim countries than in Europe. Far more. 

Edited by FLOMBIE
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Just now, FLOMBIE said:

Well, those countries are more centered on themselves. Discrimination is happening a lot among Arabs. Qatar is pretty much a fascist state. You have a lot more opportunities in Europe. 

And a list of the richest Muslim countries doesn't help if we compare them on a global scale. 

Yes I agree, because we are seeing the discrimination towards the "west" by the muslims who live here, more and more. Even your "good muslim" wants their own neighborhood, their own laws and do not not want to integrate.  If I moved to a muslim country, i would be expected to respect their laws and dress code, but muslims do not and will not do that in our country.

 

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36 minutes ago, Philangeli said:

Is it just to make a living?

If so, why doesn't Islam/Allah provide its followers to make a living in their own countries?

You're asking the wrong question. The question should be 'why do people from developing countries with a low standard of living move to countries with a higher standard of living?'. And the answer is obvious.

It has nothing to do with religion and you asking the question with religion attached makes your intentions clear.

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Just now, freetoroam said:

Yes I agree, because we are seeing the discrimination towards the "west" by the muslims who live here, more and more. Even your "good muslim" wants their own neighborhood, their own laws and do not not want to integrate.  If I moved to a muslim country, i would be expected to respect their laws and dress code, but muslims do not and will not do that in our country.

 

I don't see that at all. At least not here in Germany. The people you talk about are a stern, but vocal minority, and nobody but themselves likes them. I believe that a democracy can endure that. Let them scream.

I find it very unpleasant that you talk to in these generalizing terms. Do you like it when radical Muslims do the same about our lifestyles? Most Muslims want, just like any other person, a peaceful life. But you will always find fascists. Fight the fascists, and team up with the rest, That is helpful, but not any "us" and "they" rhetoric. That leaves them little chance to find their place in our society. 

I am a strong critic of the religion of Islam. But every Muslim, every person, has a chance in my book.

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38 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

I don't see that at all. At least not here in Germany. The people you talk about are a stern, but vocal minority, and nobody but themselves likes them. I believe that a democracy can endure that. Let them scream.

I find it very unpleasant that you talk to in these generalizing terms. Do you like it when radical Muslims do the same about our lifestyles? Most Muslims want, just like any other person, a peaceful life. But you will always find fascists. Fight the fascists, and team up with the rest, That is helpful, but not any "us" and "they" rhetoric. That leaves them little chance to find their place in our society. 

I am a strong critic of the religion of Islam. But every Muslim, every person, has a chance in my book.

Everyone has a chance, but when a particular religion is causing a threat, then one has to question those following that religion, jeeze, history is our witness on that one. I am not religious, and if i had been around during the times of persecutions, i would have been killed by the catholics, christians and muslims. I find it extremely worrying and sad that religion is STILL behind the reason why we are seeing deaths today. As it happens, those doing the recent attacks are doing it in the name of islam, and the western world is not a muslim world.

The point is, who can we trust when we are seeing more and more attacks in Europe? how can we trust the "the good muslim" who has immigrated to our country when a lot of the terrorists are immigrants from a muslim country coming to the western world with "to better their life" as their reason

How many times have were heard "but they were so nice, friendly" by neighbours and friends of the terrorist who had just murdered innocent people . too many now, to the point where unfortunately, some of us feel we can  not trust the "to better my life" immigrant. It is sad, not only for the muslim who genuinely wants to better their lives or even to come here to study, but too many innocent lives are being taken in our western world, innocent people who have nothing to do with what is going on in other countries where there is war......why are they attacking innocent people here? what do you expect people to do? accept that these people are angry and we continue go about our business with the possibility of being killed by a suicide bomber or run over by a van, by muslim fanatics who have entered our country because " they want to better their lives"? 

Edited by freetoroam
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Just now, freetoroam said:

How many times have were heard "but they were so nice, friendly" by neighbours and friends of the terrorist who had just murdered innocent people

Nowhere near as many times as we've heard it about the white psycho serial killer. 

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17 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Nowhere near as many times as we've heard it about the white psycho serial killer. 

No need to bring the colour thing into this, I can give you a list of black psycho serial killers too. 

The recent terrorists btw would have passed your brown paper bag test, Some of their victims were darker skinned than them, this has NOTHING to do with race, but all to do with their religion. The terrorist do not know what colour the people were, they did not know what religion they were, they did not care......they were in a western country and they wanted to kill innocent people in that western country in the name of islam.

 

Edited by freetoroam

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In most cases the fact they are Muslim is besides the point.   They are leaving Asian and African countries to seek a better life in Europe.   Knowing life is better here because they have seen it on media/internet and/or been sold the dream by the modern equivalent of slave traders.  

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Just now, freetoroam said:

No need to bring the colour thing into this, I can give you a list of black psycho serial killers too. 

The recent terrorists btw would not have passed your brown paper bag test, Some of their victims were darker skinned than them, this has NOTHING to do with race, but all to do with their religion. The terrorist do not know what colour the people were, they did not know what religion they were, they did not care......they were in a western country and they wanted to kill innocent people in that western country in the name of islam.

 

I was really speaking just about the stereotypical serial killer, not really on race. 

IDK I think its a hard situation. I can't comment directly on your nation as im an American and cant even begin to wrap my brain around your culture. As for America, well Toddlers (yes the mini humans who can barely walk)  have killed more people than islamic terrorists for several years running now.

IDK if anyone has put the numbers together but I have to think that it probably plays out somewhat close to the same over there. Maybe not quite since you dont have the amount of accidental gun deaths but point being, while a terror attack sucks, and its horrible, when you look at hard statistics and take the emotion out of it I dont think its quite the scourge that its made out to be. 

NO IM NOT denying that islamic terrorism exists , just trying to put it into perspective. 

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Just now, freetoroam said:

No need to bring the colour thing into this, I can give you a list of black psycho serial killers too. 

The recent terrorists btw would not have passed your brown paper bag test, Some of their victims were darker skinned than them, this has NOTHING to do with race, but all to do with their religion. The terrorist do not know what colour the people were, they did not know what religion they were, they did not care......they were in a western country and they wanted to kill innocent people in that western country in the name of islam.

 

Following up on my previous post I found this graph :

 

How many people are killed by terrorist attacks in the UK?

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A strong community already based in the destination country influences the choice immeasurably, there's also that little constant promise across the ages of 'a better life' 'liberation' and 'saving from oppression' before the bombs drop and bullets fly ...

~

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13 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I was really speaking just about the stereotypical serial killer, not really on race. 

IDK I think its a hard situation. I can't comment directly on your nation as im an American and cant even begin to wrap my brain around your culture. As for America, well Toddlers (yes the mini humans who can barely walk)  have killed more people than islamic terrorists for several years running now.

IDK if anyone has put the numbers together but I have to think that it probably plays out somewhat close to the same over there. Maybe not quite since you dont have the amount of accidental gun deaths but point being, while a terror attack sucks, and its horrible, when you look at hard statistics and take the emotion out of it I dont think its quite the scourge that its made out to be. 

NO IM NOT denying that islamic terrorism exists , just trying to put it into perspective. 

Here in the UK, our country is a lot smaller than yours and we have seen muslim areas flourishing, areas which want their own sharia laws, they do not want to integrate.

Let me tell you a bit about my upbringing, I was raised in south London, I had friends of all colours, I saw some of my friends go trough racist attacks, I stood by my friends all the time, not because they were black, but because we grew up together and I knew they were good friends irrelevant of their colour. Colour meant nothing to us, our friendship is what mattered. 

What we have here is another form of discrimination, discrimination against those who are not muslims, Not all muslims are like that, but we are seeing a growing number of it as their communities become more secular. We are a "multicultural" country, but as the muslim communities grow bigger, they do not want to be westerners or part of it. Which if they have come here to "better their lives" surely, you if you have chosen that country to live in, at least try to integrate and live with others of all races and religions without hate. 

This is what we have here in the UK and if we are not careful, it will keep growing:

how many of these came to the UK for "a better life"? how many were born here? 

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Just now, freetoroam said:

What we have here is another form of discrimination, discrimination against those who are not muslims, Not all muslims are like that, but we are seeing a growing number of it as their communities become more secular. We are a "multicultural" country, but as the muslim communities grow bigger, they do not want to be westerners or part of it. Which if they have come here to "better their lives" surely, you if you have chosen that country to live in, at least try to integrate and live with others of all races and religions without hate. 

Do you guys have other pockets where cultures havent fully integrated? Like Chinatowns? (forgive my ignorance) 

Just now, freetoroam said:

This is what we have here in the UK and if we are not careful, it will keep growing:

I agree thats unacceptable and needs to be mitigated. 

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