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Daughter of the Nine Moons

U.S. Navy destroyer, merchant ship collide

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U.S. Navy destroyer, merchant ship collide near Singapore

A U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyer has collided with a merchant ship in waters east of Singapore and the Straits of Malacca.

The Navy's 7th Fleet says that the USS John S. McCain sustained damage on its port side from the collision with the Alnic MC on Monday at 6:24 a.m. Japan time.

Search and rescue efforts were underway in coordination with local authorities. There were no initial reports of injuries.

It is the second collision involving a Navy ship in the Pacific in two months. Seven sailors died in June when the USS Fitzgerald and a container ship hit each other in waters off Japan.

The Japan-based 7th fleet said the McCain was heading to Singapore for a routine port visit.

The USS John S. McCain destroyer sails is seen in August 2011.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-navy-destoyer-merchant-ship-collide-singapore-john-mccain-1.4255174

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully there will be no deaths this time and they find the missing sailors.

Update: Ten sailors are missing and five injured after the guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain collided with a merchant vessel east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca, the U.S. Navy said late Sunday.

Edited by .ZZ.
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I hope so to ZZ,

How common are these types of collisions? 2 in 2 months seems excessive.

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2 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

I hope so to ZZ,

How common are these types of collisions? 2 in 2 months seems excessive.

I don't recall ever hearing news of so many, so close in timing.  It is disturbing and seems to point to a deficit in discipline or training.  I hope the missing are found safe or at least accounted for.  Collision or fire at sea are the worst threats to sailors in noncombat operations.

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  This ship is the one that recently did a trip through China's artificial island's waters. 

  I find it hard to believe that another destroyer would have a similar accident so soon after the first.  When I was in the military and something went wrong with a particular plane or system, the extra vigilance we were forced to do on that issue was branch wide.  I remember doing 12hr days doing inspection after inspection.   They made extra sure that whatever it was did not happen again.  Especially if it was negligence on the part of personnel. 

That being said, it makes me wonder if there wasn't some sort of navigational hacking or the like going on.

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20 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

I hope so to ZZ,

How common are these types of collisions? 2 in 2 months seems excessive.

I agree with and then on this, I'm thinking poor training with the cutbacks to the budget, and just plain bad attitudes by the officers on board.

16 minutes ago, and then said:

I don't recall ever hearing news of so many, so close in timing.  It is disturbing and seems to point to a deficit in discipline or training.  I hope the missing are found safe or at least accounted for.  Collision or fire at sea are the worst threats to sailors in noncombat operations.

I served 4 years in the Navy and fires were the main danger we trained to most for. We had a fire on a ship I was aboard and it was intense, the smoke will choke you very quickly because it has no place to dissipate.

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31 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

  This ship is the one that recently did a trip through China's artificial island's waters. 

  I find it hard to believe that another destroyer would have a similar accident so soon after the first.  When I was in the military and something went wrong with a particular plane or system, the extra vigilance we were forced to do on that issue was branch wide.  I remember doing 12hr days doing inspection after inspection.   They made extra sure that whatever it was did not happen again.  Especially if it was negligence on the part of personnel. 

That being said, it makes me wonder if there wasn't some sort of navigational hacking or the like going on.

I'm just in disbelief. How could this happen again? 

There's gotta be something going on. 

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updates :
 

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~

11:40 a.m.

The U.S. Navy says four sailors injured in a ship collision were evacuated to a hospital.

The Navy says 10 sailors are missing in the collision of the USS John S. McCain and the Alnic MC tanker in waters east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca early Monday.

The U.S. Navy said in a news release that a Singapore navy helicopter medically evacuated the four U.S. sailors to a hospital in Singapore for treatment of their injuries. A fifth injured sailor did not require medical attention.

 

The navy also said efforts were continuing to control the damage and the extent was still being determined. The damage was on its port side aft, or left rear of the ship. The damage to the tanker was unclear.

 

~

 

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4 hours ago, Gromdor said:

  This ship is the one that recently did a trip through China's artificial island's waters. 

  I find it hard to believe that another destroyer would have a similar accident so soon after the first.  When I was in the military and something went wrong with a particular plane or system, the extra vigilance we were forced to do on that issue was branch wide.  I remember doing 12hr days doing inspection after inspection.   They made extra sure that whatever it was did not happen again.  Especially if it was negligence on the part of personnel. 

That being said, it makes me wonder if there wasn't some sort of navigational hacking or the like going on.

 

3 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm just in disbelief. How could this happen again? 

There's gotta be something going on. 

Yup, much as I suspected. They must be being hacked by the Chinese. It's the only possible explanation. :rolleyes: 

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From the pictures, such as this one USS John S McCain after the collision

, that looks very much like the dent the tanker's bulbous bow would make. From the look of it (it doesn't seem to have made an actual hole), they were both going very slowly. Did the destroyer just try to cut across her bow and cut it a little too fine? Were they thinking the tanker was stationary, when she wasn't?

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I wonder how long it will take to finish the investigation into the Fitzgerald collision ? 

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Official Update from Navy Mill site : LINK

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~

Story Number: NNS170820-01Release Date: 8/20/2017 7:38:00 PM
From U.S. 7th Fleet Public Affairs

CHANGI NAVAL BASE, Singapore (NNS) -- UPDATE POSTED AUG. 21, 3:42 A.M. (EDT)

The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) has arrived at Changi Naval Base following a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore on Aug. 21.

The collision was reported at 6:24 a.m. Japan Standard Time. Significant damage to the hull resulted in flooding to nearby compartments, including crew berthing, machinery, and communications rooms. Damage control efforts by the crew halted further flooding.

There are currently 10 Sailors missing and five injured. Four of the injured were medically evacuated by a Singapore Armed Forces helicopter to a hospital in Singapore for non-life threatening injuries. The fifth injured Sailor does not require further medical attention.

A family assistance center has been established. Families can call 011-81-46-816-1728 (international) or 243-1728 (DSN on base).

Search and rescue efforts continue in coordination with local authorities. The Republic of Singapore Fearless-class patrol ships RSS Gallant (97), RSS Resilience (82), and Singaporean Police Coast Guard vessel Basking Shark (55) are in the area rendering assistance.

Additionally, MH-60S helicopters and MV-22 Ospreys from the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) are in the area providing search and rescue assistance.

Alnic MC is a Liberian-flagged 600-foot oil and chemical tanker with a gross tonnage of 30,000.

The incident will be investigated.

 

 

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5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I wonder how long it will take to finish the investigation into the Fitzgerald collision ? 

Well, in the reports about this it says that the CO and several officers from that one had been discreetly relieved of command.

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Oooh right... umm... but wouldn't that be standard procedure during an investigation ? (apart from anything else, they would need to be available for interview ? )

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Just now, RoofGardener said:

Oooh right... umm... but wouldn't that be standard procedure during an investigation ? (apart from anything else, they would need to be available for interview ? )

I believe they actually told the CO's that theyve lost faith in their ability to lead.  Navy to relieve USS Fitzgerald leadership for mistakes that led to deadly collision

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The Navy's 7th Fleet issued a statement late on Thursday after the command team was relieved further specifying each of the men's role in the crash. Benson was relieved "due to a loss of confidence in his ability to lead," according to the release. Babbitt and Baldwin "contributed to the lack of watch stander preparedness and readiness that was evident in the events leading up to the collision."

 

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Blimey.. that's pretty damning. 

I was wondering why the captain wasn't removed from command, until I read the article. (his cabin was one of the ones struck, and he was dangling out of the side of the ship when the crew finally managed to break through the rubble and rescue him).

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That is it... I declare merchant ships are our navy's #1 enemy in the ocean! Dude... seriously, do we have to keep running into merchant ships or have them run into us?

Edited by Uncle Sam
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If this accident is similar to the USS Fitzgerald then its down to something as simple as bad seamanship. Something is going wrong on a basic level. the watch keepers are not displaying situational awareness, its either none qualified, inexperienced or officers being qualified but not familiar with the systems. - is that down to cut backs in training? We cannot ignore the cuts to Navy, and yet even with the cuts the Navy is running operations at a tempo that's not sustainable. 

These two incidents have happened in one of the most congested sea lanes in the world, but its damning two serious collisions with merchant vessels, some 17 crew members dead or missing and two guided missile destroyers of the US Seventh Fleet out of action.

This is the fourth time in a year that a US navy vessel has been involved in an accident. Fitzgerald collided with a container ship, In May, a USS lake Champlain with a South Korean fishing vessel, while in August last year USS Louisiana with an offshore support vessel, and now this incident with the USS John S. McCain.

Lets hope and pray the Sailors are found safe or rescued.

 

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4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Oooh right... umm... but wouldn't that be standard procedure during an investigation ? (apart from anything else, they would need to be available for interview ? )

My understanding is that the Captain of a vessel that is involved in a collision or any accident while underway is relieved and his/her career advance ended.  It's a brutal and unforgiving sort of discipline but ultimately the Captain is responsible for every action of the crew and ship systems.  

 

12 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 

Yup, much as I suspected. They must be being hacked by the Chinese. It's the only possible explanation. :rolleyes: 

It could be poor seamanship by one or both ship crews but if satellite/computer dependent navigation systems were being used, why would hacking seems so unbelievable?  If the Chinese HAD caused this with hacking, I doubt we'd ever be told.  That, after all, would be an act of war.  I just find it difficult to believe that such a rash of events like this could be down to system-wide lack of training or discipline.  It isn't impossible but the events are just too close together to my thinking.  Especially since Gromdor's experience about the extra inspections and drills seems the natural way for the military to handle even a single event like this.  

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13 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 

Yup, much as I suspected. They must be being hacked by the Chinese. It's the only possible explanation. :rolleyes: 

"Some400poundguysittingonhisbed" strikes again, eh? 

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Just now, ChaosRose said:

"Some400poundguysittingonhisbed" strikes again, eh? 

i'm sorry?

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Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

i'm sorry?

You don't remember that? Lol. When Trump said hacking must have been caused by some 400 lb. guy sitting on his bed?

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Whatever caused it, I sure hope they find everyone who's missing. 

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perhaps it wasn't hacking at all. I mean, if it was, it would have to have been planned with meticulous precision to take over control of the steering/suddenly disable the engines or whatever at the precise moment the ships (both of them, this and the earlier incident) was crossing the bows of the merchant ship (or perhaps the merchant ship's autopilot was hacked, knowing that shortly a US warship would be passing in just the right position for them to ram it.) 

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1 hour ago, and then said:

My understanding is that the Captain of a vessel that is involved in a collision or any accident while underway is relieved and his/her career advance ended.  It's a brutal and unforgiving sort of discipline but ultimately the Captain is responsible for every action of the crew and ship systems.  

 

It could be poor seamanship by one or both ship crews but if satellite/computer dependent navigation systems were being used, why would hacking seems so unbelievable?  If the Chinese HAD caused this with hacking, I doubt we'd ever be told.  That, after all, would be an act of war.  I just find it difficult to believe that such a rash of events like this could be down to system-wide lack of training or discipline.  It isn't impossible but the events are just too close together to my thinking.  Especially since Gromdor's experience about the extra inspections and drills seems the natural way for the military to handle even a single event like this.  

Also have to remember that AIS is turned off on US Navy vessels, not only are they the only large vessels not transmitting AIS data. they also have a low radar cross-section signatures, throw into the mix that the radar screen on the Merchant vessel in such high traffic areas will be so obscured - then you have a recipe for disasters to happen. Its well known in the merchant world for Captains to utter the words (US Naval vessels) just 'appear out of nowhere' So when your ship is "invisible" in the noise and no other means of tracking it is available then those standing watch, officers included need to be alert, its no coincidence these two incidents have happened in the same busy part of the world.

 

Edited by stevewinn
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