U.S. Navy destroyer, merchant ship collide

[Gromdor]

10 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

perhaps it wasn't hacking at all. I mean, if it was, it would have to have been planned with meticulous precision to take over control of the steering/suddenly disable the engines or whatever at the precise moment the ships (both of them, this and the earlier incident) was crossing the bows of the merchant ship (or perhaps the merchant ship's autopilot was hacked, knowing that shortly a US warship would be passing in just the right position for them to ram it.) 

Now the news is saying that the ship lost control of steering right before the crash and regained it afterwords......... http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/uss-john-s-mccain-collision/index.html

[Space Commander Travis]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Now the news is saying that the ship lost control of steering right before the crash and regained it afterwords......... http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/uss-john-s-mccain-collision/index.html

so how would these N. Korean or Chinese hackers have known exactly when to take control of the McCain just as she was crossing the path of the tanker? They must have been watching very closely to choose their exact moment. 

[Space Commander Travis]

"It may be hard for people to understand why US warships are unable to avoid other vessels since they are equipped with the world's most sophisticated radar and electronic tracking systems, and aided by crew members on constant watch,"  the China Daily remarked sagely. 

[bee]

49 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

"It may be hard for people to understand why US warships are unable to avoid other vessels since they are equipped with the world's most sophisticated radar and electronic tracking systems, and aided by crew members on constant watch,"  the China Daily remarked sagely. 

 

ouch 

I'm remembering the USS Donald Cook incident in the Black Sea back in 2014 -

perhaps China AND Russia has the capability to disable US warships and it was a warning..?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Donald_Cook

information or misinformation ?

 

In 2014, Russia′s state-run news media outlets ran a series of reports that falsely asserted that during that incident the Su-24, equipped with the Khibiny electronic warfare system, had disabled the ship's Aegis combat systems. The misinformation was later picked up by the British tabloid The Sun and by Fox News

[bmk1245]

25 minutes ago, bee said:

 

ouch 

I'm remembering the USS Donald Cook incident in the Black Sea back in 2014 -

perhaps China AND Russia has the capability to disable US warships and it was a warning..?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Donald_Cook

information or misinformation ?

 

Ah, famous bs. Think about it: Russians "show" capabilities of their "superweapon"! - its like showing your cards in the beginning of poker game. Russkies aren't THAT stupid.

 

Bit OT. Its probably have nothing to do with OP, nevertheless:

Quote

Mass GPS Spoofing Attack in the Black Sea? - Maritime Executive

An apparent mass and blatant, GPS spoofing attack involving over 20 vessels in the Black Sea last month has navigation experts and maritime executives scratching their heads.

The event first came to public notice via a relatively innocuous safety alert from the U.S. Maritime Administration:

A maritime incident has been reported in the Black Sea in the vicinity of position 44-15.7N, 037-32.9E on June 22, 2017 at 0710 GMT. This incident has not been confirmed. The nature of the incident is reported as GPS interference. Exercise caution when transiting this area.

But the backstory is way more interesting and disturbing. On June 22 a vessel reported to the U.S. Coast Guard Navigation Center:

Read more...

 

[pallidin]

I find that in this case (and other's similar to it) an unacceptable failure for highly advanced U.S. warships to avoid unintentionally colliding with ANYTHING.

A super-advanced submarine colliding with another super-advanced submarine is a potential "Duh..."

But a U.S. Navy surface ship colliding with a commercial vessel?

That is just beyond STUPID. 

 

 

[bee]

3 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Ah, famous bs. Think about it: Russians "show" capabilities of their "superweapon"! - its like showing your cards in the beginning of poker game. Russkies aren't THAT stupid.

 

 

I think all '''sides''' more or less know what the others have in their hand - 

A demonstration would be like a shot across the bows -  a warning to back off...?

 

[toast]

Whatever that should mean:

Quote

August 22nd, 2017

 

A “steering casualty” onboard the USS John S. McCain has been cited by one US Navy official as the reason for Monday’s horrific collision with a Stealth Maritime tanker, Alnic MC, off Singapore. The navy source told CNN that the destroyer lost control of its steering while beginning its approach into the Strait of Malacca. […]

MarineTraffic

View details for: ALNIC MC
Read complete article on SPLASH247

 

[pallidin]

7 minutes ago, toast said:

Whatever that should mean:

 

True, and it is also true that naval warships are equipped with back-up steering, which was NOT utilized in this case of clear emergency, and the results are the deaths of faithful sailors.

Gross Deriliction of Duty is my tribunal.

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by pallidin

[toast]

7 minutes ago, pallidin said:

True, and it is also true that naval warships are equipped with back-up steering, which was NOT utilized in this case of clear emergency, and the results are the deaths of faithful sailors.

Gross Deriliction of Duty is my tribunal.

 

Yeah, a steering casualty. If there had not been a steering casualty, there had not been a collision.

[pallidin]

13 minutes ago, toast said:

Yeah, a steering casualty. If there had not been a steering casualty, there had not been a collision.

I would go just a little further, Toast, because it is reported that the back-up steering was functional but not utilized.

The responsibility to avoid collision rest solely with the Captain and whatever crew who were steering this multi-million dollar destroyer.

It is just blatantly unfathomable that this collision should occur given the technology and back-up systems available.

Thus, point-blank, THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Electronic hacking or jamming isn't rocket science, it's easier than most are led to believe. A lot of a military electronics is purchased from China and the capability could be built in.

https://www.crn.com.au/news/chinese-backdoors-discovered-in-us-military-chips-302810

Quote

 

A Cambridge University research team has claimed Chinese manufacturers put “backdoors” into electronic chips used by the US military.

Using "breakthrough silicon chip scanning technology", researcher Sergei Skorobogatov said his team had found unauthorised access mechanisms inserted by the Chinese manufacturer of a chip used by the military.

The chip was encrypted and locked by a key that his team was able to extract, effectively allowing it to be reprogrammed at will or disabled.

 

It's a different kind of war out there people. Watch a small percentage of the cyberwar in real time.

http://map.norsecorp.com/#/ 

 

Quote

"Every second, Norse collects and analyzes live threat intelligence from darknets in hundreds of locations in over 40 countries," the Norse map site says. "The attacks shown are based on a small subset of live flows against the Norse honeypot infrastructure, representing actual worldwide cyberattacks by bad actors."
What that means, a Norse exec told Newsweek recently, is that "the attacks you are seeing are actually on Norse’s infrastructure,” and the map represents "far less than 1 percent of the data we receive at any given time."

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Buzz_Light_Year

[bee]

4 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Electronic hacking or jamming isn't rocket science, it's easier than most are led to believe. A lot of a military electronics is purchased from China and the capability could be built in.

https://www.crn.com.au/news/chinese-backdoors-discovered-in-us-military-chips-302810

 

 

interesting
 

let's hope something like that's been done to all the high tech weaponry sold to Saudi Arabia by the US and UK  

 

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Electronic hacking or jamming isn't rocket science, it's easier than most are led to believe. A lot of a military electronics is purchased from China and the capability could be built in.

https://www.crn.com.au/news/chinese-backdoors-discovered-in-us-military-chips-302810

It's a different kind of war out there people. Watch a small percentage of the cyberwar in real time.

http://map.norsecorp.com/#/ 

 

 

so the devious slant-eyes were watching by satellite the movements of the McCain and decided, just at the right moment that she was exactly crossing the bow of the other ship, to disable the steering? Poor old William of Occam would be going  to see that the opposite of his theory now automatically applies; in any situation, the most likely explanation is the most devious and complicated, at any rate if the Chinese or the Russkies can be implicated.

[Farmer77]

Remains of Navy sailors found on USS John S. McCain

 

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

16 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

so the devious slant-eyes were watching by satellite the movements of the McCain and decided, just at the right moment that she was exactly crossing the bow of the other ship, to disable the steering? Poor old William of Occam would be going  to see that the opposite of his theory now automatically applies; in any situation, the most likely explanation is the most devious and complicated, at any rate if the Chinese or the Russkies can be implicated.

The U.S. Navy and related departments will be exploring just that scenario. If hacking is determined to be the cause they are not going to make it public. As with the Fitzgerald, the captain and crew will be held responsible whether they are or not.  Meanwhile the real truth will be disseminated by CNN from unnamed sources or sources that couldn't be identified due to conditions of anonymity.

[Gromdor]

The Chinese media was quick to politicize and propaganda this.  Calling the US navy a navigation hazard.  https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/08/22/world/asia/22reuters-usa-navy-crash-china.html

Like I had mentioned before, this vessel was the vessel that recently sailed through water claimed by the Chinese with their artificial islands.  Making it crash and seeming like an accident would send an effective message to the US while at the same time portraying the US military as a bumbling hazard to the region.  If I were the Chinese and had the capability to do so, I would plan an operation to do just this. 

[stevewinn]

the theory of being hacked is a none starter, the theory put forward of losing the steering possibly, the only problem with this, is the fact the US Destroyer was sailing with no AIS, and no Navigation lights on, and it's course was about to cut across a busy shipping lane. if the basic seamanship was followed they'd have had a window of opportunity to react to the loss of steering, radar system's and plotting would have allowed the USS John.S McCain to plot the exact course of nearby vessels, also AIS would have identified the tanker and the USS John.S McCain could have contacted the tanker on the distress frequency alerting the tanker to the potential collision, plus they could have turned on all their navigational and port lights and lit her up like a Christmas tree. - If we look at marine traffic and the course of Alnic MC its doing a steady 9 knots in the correct lane the fact it doesn't react and hits the US ship at 9.2 knots shows the Alnic MC crew were unaware anything was in their path the X/ S Band radar used on the tanker in such a high traffic area would've had a hard time pinging or the crew distinguishing the Destroyer.

Its clear that procedural change is needed to have one incident is bad luck, but to have two near identical calls to question, - a number of questions in fact, training of crew and experience of officers and also the environment they are being asked to operate in. The investigation reports in due time will most probably find failings from top to bottom. all stemming from cuts in the budget. and that's where the Admirals should've raised concerns when asked to do more with less.

Stars and Stripes reporting 3 crew members found and identified onboard the ship. Its an absolute travesty the loss of such life.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/3-missing-sailors-identified-as-search-continues-for-mccain-survivors-1.483931#.WZyI--mQzIW

 

[SHaYap]

Update :

 

 

 

Quote

 

Wednesday, 23 August 2017 | MYT 3:34 PM

Malaysia hands over body to US Navy

by austin camoens

~

 

• the Star Online link

[SHaYap]

This just in :

~

 

Quote

 

Friday, 25 August 2017 | MYT 3:02 PM

U.S. Navy recovers second body in search for sailors missing after collision

 

• the Star Online link

 

~

[Eldorado]

The search at sea has been suspended.  http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/24/politics/uss-john-mccain-search-and-rescue-suspended/index.html

An opinion piece by a former Navy man. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/with-the-uss-mccain-collision-even-navy-tech-cant-overcome-human-shortcomings/

[Gromdor]

3 hours ago, Eldorado said:

The search at sea has been suspended.  http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/24/politics/uss-john-mccain-search-and-rescue-suspended/index.html

An opinion piece by a former Navy man. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/with-the-uss-mccain-collision-even-navy-tech-cant-overcome-human-shortcomings/

Well that opinion piece sure is depressing.  If it is systematic human error, it makes me worry.  If they can't spot and react to a huge tanker, what would happen if it was a nuclear missile headed to Honolulu?