Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Carnoferox

Reference List for the Younger Dryas Impact

200 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Hanslune
7 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

What do you make of the fact that Clovis artifacts are only found below the YD black mat?

?? I was commenting on the perception of time in modern readers in regards to the 'die off' of animals to Piney.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Piney
9 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

"Among testable catastrophic hypotheses, the most popular, attractive, and long-lasting idea of a sudden discharge of fresh water from the proglacial Lake Agassiz into the Arctic Ocean (5–7) eventually was found inconsistent with geomorphological and chronological data (4, 8)."

This is not a popular or long lasting idea. Or a idea at all. Missoula dumped into the Pacific and several glacial lakes dumped into the Atlantic.

I found 13 papers on Clovis transitions in the Great Lakes. Find me one where they suddenly disappeared. 

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
5 minutes ago, Piney said:

This is not a popular or long lasting idea. Or a idea at all. Missoula dumped into the Pacific and several glacial lakes dumped into the Atlantic.

Wait up. You attacked the paper for arguing that Lake Agassiz dumped into the Arctic. I showed you that you misread the paper. Why not just own up to it rather than shifting to a different and inconsequential argument?

 

Quote

I found 13 papers on Clovis transitions in the Great Lakes. Find me one where they suddenly disappeared. 

Let's stay on task. The Petaev et al study is not concerned with Clovis culture; it merely notes in passing that the YDIH has been evoked to explain the apparent rapid decline of the Clovis Culture. I understand that you dispute such a decline, but that is not what the study is about. I am asking what your thoughts are on the platinum spike, which is what the study IS about. 

 

As for the Clovis culture, I'd be happy to discuss that in another thread. I'm sure I could learn a lot about the topic from you, and I am interested.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closed for business
58 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Wait up. You attacked the paper for arguing that Lake Agassiz dumped into the Arctic. I showed you that you misread the paper. Why not just own up to it rather than shifting to a different and inconsequential argument?

There were over 50 mega floods during the last glacier movement/period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods

hese floods have been researched since the 1920s. During the last deglaciation that followed the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, geologists estimate that a cycle of flooding and reformation of the lake lasted an average of 55 years and that the floods occurred several times over the 2,000-year period between 15,000 and 13,000 years ago. U.S. Geological Survey hydrologist Jim O'Connor and Spanish Center of Environmental Studies scientist Gerard Benito have found evidence of at least twenty-five massive floods, the largest discharging about 10 cubic kilometers per hour (2.7 million m³/s, 13 times the Amazon River).[1] Alternate estimates for the peak flow rate of the largest flood include 17 cubic kilometers per hour[2] and range up to 60 cubic kilometers per hour.[3] The maximum flow speed approached 36 meters/second (130 km/h or 80 mph).[2]

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
2 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

I am asking what your thoughts are on the platinum spike, which is what the study IS about. 

Astro-geology is not my area of expertise. :yes:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
Just now, Piney said:

Astro-geology is not my area of expertise. :yes:

Does that mean you have no thoughts on it? There are many fields involved in these studies in which you lack expertise yet have clearly stated opinions on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
Just now, SeekTruth said:

Does that mean you have no thoughts on it? There are many fields involved in these studies in which you lack expertise yet have clearly stated opinions on.

Nope.

I'd have to read up when I can escape my business and my girlfriends business for a day or two and I finally get the 30 something out of my hair. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hanslune
5 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

Does that mean you have no thoughts on it? There are many fields involved in these studies in which you lack expertise yet have clearly stated opinions on.

Do you have expertise in this? If so, instead of trying, to get others to say thing then disagreeing - why not - you know offer up information and your own opinions?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Do you have expertise in this? If so, instead of trying, to get others to say thing then disagreeing - why not - you know offer up information and your own opinions?

As I've already said in this very thread:

"I'm slowly wading through the material in my efforts to understand the subject. It is ambitious but very fun. Discussion is a great way for me to learn, and I was hoping to get one from you. "

"I'm not looking to debate. Only to learn. I ask you the questions that I ask myself, in hopes that you might help me navigate the issue. You've made many claims... and I'm trying to understand and assess how your claims hold up against the evidence while trying to get a handle on the logic and reasoning underpinning the arguments on both sides of this debate."

I'm wondering why @Piney awarded you a trophy for a post that insinuates that I'm merely playing a contrarian role in this discussion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
8 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

I'm wondering why @Piney awarded you a trophy for a post that insinuates that I'm merely playing a contrarian role in this discussion. 

You haven't presented your own opinion yet. My opinion is set in stone. No YDI. 

All the papers just show circumstantial evidence while stating the same bullcrap i.e. Clovis dieoff, megafauna dieoff, black mats on every Clovis site.

There were no black mats over the Tom's River or Decou sites. Nor on the site of Wesscessit, which shows unbroken habitation up until the late 17th Century.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

You haven't presented your own opinion yet. My opinion is set in stone. No YDI.

Am I supposed to have an opinion on a topic (YDIH) t that I've only recently started to study? I'm trying to get a handle on the debate and the evidence before I commit myself to an opinion. So, if you don't mind @Piney, I'd like to continue asking you questions in order to understand why you've reached the conclusions you've committed to. Unlike you, my mind is not made up.

Quote

All the papers just show circumstantial evidence while stating the same bullcrap i.e. Clovis dieoff, megafauna dieoff, black mats on every Clovis site.

That is a sweepingly dismissive comment to make, and I'd like to better understand your reasons for saying it. 

Allow me to ask again:  Why do you suppose that Clovis artifacts are found only below the black mat and are not found above it?

Quote

There were no black mats over the Tom's River or Decou sites. Nor on the site of Wesscessit, which shows unbroken habitation up until the late 17th Century.

I can neither dispute this nor verify it. If you recall, just last week you alluded to these studies but then told me to read every paper on the subject in order to find these two studies you alluded to. Throw a dog a bone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closed for business
3 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

Throw a dog a bone?

if I throw a dog a bone I don't want to know if it tastes good or not. -  Brick Top Blowlie - quickmeme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Abramelin
Posted (edited)

I am a bit worried about @Swede

He's a really old guy, and I miss his intelligent and sober remarks.

 

Edited by Abramelin
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I am a bit worried about @Swede

 

He has a remote hunting cabin where he can find his mind. He's probably there.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closed for business
11 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I am a bit worried about @Swede

He's a really old guy, and I miss his intelligent and sober remarks.

 

Hi Rob

He was a mentor that would PM me and always encourage me about my search skills and has my greatest respects.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
16 hours ago, SeekTruth said:

Allow me to ask again:  Why do you suppose that Clovis artifacts are found only below the black mat and are not found above it?

 

There is no black mat over the Thunderbird Site either. There is a Paleo-Indian house pattern and continuous habitation stretching into the archaic.  

I could care less about black mats. Show me a Clovis site which was destroyed and a whole herd of flattened mammoths.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Abramelin
52 minutes ago, Piney said:
 

There is no black mat over the Thunderbird Site either. There is a Paleo-Indian house pattern and continuous habitation stretching into the archaic.  

I could care less about black mats. Show me a Clovis site which was destroyed and a whole herd of flattened mammoths.

 

I think you will like the next video:

 

Here's sort of an index:

 

20210613_112800.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Piney said:
 

There is no black mat over the Thunderbird Site either. There is a Paleo-Indian house pattern and continuous habitation stretching into the archaic.  

I could care less about black mats. Show me a Clovis site which was destroyed and a whole herd of flattened mammoths.

 

You don't care about black mats. Why not? You previously agreed that Clovis artifacts are found only below the black mats, and I wanted to know what you make of this fact. Your response is to say that you don't care. It is an unfortunate pattern I'm finding in your posts, Piney. You've twice made claims about certain studies that you have refused to provide. Why is that? I (and others I've talked to) would love to know about this alleged Clovis site at Decou Pond. 

Why would a destroyed Clovis site or a herd of flattened mammoths be necessary in order to prove the YDIH? Can't an impact be determined by means of geochemical markers?

Edited by SeekTruth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
12 hours ago, Piney said:

Thanks for the article.

Quote

The species also survived nearly to the end of the YDC, indicating that neither the rapid climatic change that initiated this interval(Shumanet al., 2002) nor the hypothesized extraterrestrial trigger for the YDC (Firestone et al., 2007) brought about the immediate extinction of the North American Mastodon

I'm not sure what assumptions and reasoning has got you thinking that a YD impact would necessarily result in the immediate extinction of mastadon or any other megafauna, but such is not at all necessitated by such an impact. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SeekTruth said:

Why is that? I (and others I've talked to) would love to know about this alleged Clovis site at Decou Pond. 

Because it was Bonofiglio and myself who report to Alan Carmen. I was actually looking for YDI evidence for Howard. 

Decou is a unchanged Carolina Bay. Never silted because it's too far upland and is at the edge of the Pygmy Forest. Go find a black mat. 

49 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

I'm not sure what assumptions and reasoning has got you thinking that a YD impact would necessarily result in the immediate extinction of mastadon or any other megafauna, but such is not at all necessitated by such an impact. 

Because that's what most of these these papers say. This one talks about a theory that Aggie dumped into the Arctic which was never a theory.

1 hour ago, SeekTruth said:

Why would a destroyed Clovis site or a herd of flattened mammoths be necessary in order to prove the YDIH? Can't an impact be determined by means of geochemical markers?

Our solar system just past through a supernova debris cloud. Could that be the reason for the markers?

http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/solar-system-cloud-supernova-debris-08777.html#:~:text=“For the last few thousand,are unclear%2C” they said.&text=They found clear traces of,through the Local Interstellar Cloud.

 

1 hour ago, SeekTruth said:

You don't care about black mats. Why not? You previously agreed that Clovis artifacts are found only below the black mats,

I linked a article which said different.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/04/no-love-comet-wipeout

I told you. I'm dealing with a headache grown kid and a sister making excuses for him.........I'm miserable.

This will be eliminated by July because my take no **** girlfriend and I are moving in together.  

Edited by Piney
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekTruth
17 minutes ago, Piney said:

Because it was Bonofiglio and myself who report to Alan Carmen. I was actually looking for YDI evidence for Howard. 

Decou is a unchanged Carolina Bay. Never silted because it's too far upland and is at the edge of the Pygmy Forest. Go find a black mat. 

Because that's what most of these these papers say. This one talks about a theory that Aggie dumped into the Arctic which was never a theory.

Our solar system just past through a supernova debris cloud. Could that be the reason for the markers?

http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/solar-system-cloud-supernova-debris-08777.html#:~:text=“For the last few thousand,are unclear%2C” they said.&text=They found clear traces of,through the Local Interstellar Cloud.

 

I linked a article which should different.

I told you. I'm dealing with a headache grown kid and a sister making excuses for him.........I'm miserable.

This will be eliminated by July because my take no **** girlfriend and I are moving in together.  

OK, let's just pause this discussion until you are less miserable. Let me know.  :D

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney
4 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

OK, let's just pause this discussion until you are less miserable. Let me know.  :D

:yes:

And when you want to poke Decou Mrs. Piney and I are planning to take @Piney's_Little_Ninja next month.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piney

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Piney

The Younger Dryas and Late Pleistocene Peoples of the Great Lakes Region.

Quote

The Late Pleistocene archaeological record of the Great Lakes drainage area shows that there were several, albeit spatially variable, changes in that record in a time period corresponding to the Younger Dryas (YD) climatic reversal at ca. 10,800-10,000 14C BP. Notable here are declines in some areas in the mobility of Paleoindian groups as measured by distance to the main lithic source employed, declines in the overall frequency of sites/findpots, particularly in the western Great Lakes where some northern areas seem to have been largely abandoned, and an increasing association of occupation locales with glacial lake shores or extensive wetlands left by recently drained glacial lakes. Some of the changes, as in range mobility, most likely relate to the colonization of new areas rather than directly to the YD. Specifically, the earliest groups were able to target rich, but widely dispersed, resource locales due to an absence of competing groups. However, the declines in locale frequencies and shifting distributions of those locales may be due to YD influence, notably to an eventual drying out of the area that resulted in less productive environments overall and made the lake shores and wetland areas more attractive environmental niches for human occupation. The publisher does not allow authors to make copies of papers freely available for download. However, if you are desperate please contact me to request a pdf copy: cjellis@uwo.ca

 

https://www.academia.edu/888289/The_Younger_Dryas_and_Late_Pleistocene_Peoples_of_the_Great_Lakes_Region

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.