Russia probes kick into high gear

[Space Commander Travis]

20 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The text you quoted is indeed a fact. He was in Russia in 2013 with the Agalarovs. Not sure why you put it in quotations.

because it's straight out of Sen. McCarthy's witchhunting handbook. Don't you see that? "You once met some Russians, who may have been Shadowy. You are consequently guilty of Un-American Activities. Take him away!". 

[Space Commander Travis]

17 hours ago, Astra. said:

Well, I have to say..that there are times that I do get a tad confused with Manfreds Vlads posts. Maybe he could do with a nice warm holiday away from all of this political jargon at one of our fabulous beaches in S.E. Queensland  ..

confused? How come? I think my position is fairly clear. The whole thing's a completely manufactured witchhunt, which relies on totally tenuous insinuations and guilt by association. There, I think that's reasonably clear, isn't it? Not to say that I believe the sun shines out of Trump, er, hairpiece, there's many things you could perfectly legitimately criticize him for, but this whole "scandal" was, my personal opinion is, concocted by the losing party to give them an excuse and avoid having to face the obvious. 

[Space Commander Travis]

17 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Great.  Mueller is prosecuting Manafort for money laundering and other offenses perpetrated from 2014-2016 with Ukrainians, nothing at all to do with Trump so why didn't the DoJ take care of this?

Surely this is proof of collusion with Ukraine, which is hardly going to be anxious to promote Russian interests is it? Just the opposite if anything. 

[Astra.]

28 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

confused? How come? I think my position is fairly clear.

I was speaking in general, as sometimes you're clear, and sometimes you're not (maybe it's just a 'me' thing) sorry if I offended you.

28 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

The whole thing's a completely manufactured witchhunt, which relies on totally tenuous insinuations and guilt by association. There, I think that's reasonably clear, isn't it? Not to say that I believe the sun shines out of Trump, er, hairpiece, there's many things you could perfectly legitimately criticize him for, but this whole "scandal" was, my personal opinion is, concocted by the losing party to give them an excuse and avoid having to face the obvious. 

Thank you for your opinion. I'm sure in due time tho, that much of this sticky / messy business concerning Russia's involvement or not in the election will eventually become clearer, as the investigation progresses / and or finally winds down.

Either way, we can all speculate about this until the cows come home. But without any facts or hard evidence presented at this time that any said collusion took place or not. Well, it aint over till the fat lady sings.....

 

 

 

[+DieChecker]

23 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Mueller Still Investigating Possible Collusion, Source Says

Also, the whole Russia operation reached over 100 million US citizens. I can't be certain, but that sure sounds like the largest covert operation in history to me. Hardly a small win for Mueller, especially considering that it was part of his mandate.

I thought that was 100 million instances. As in a tiny corner popup, or easily ignored news feed on your wall. I don't think it means 100 million people getting a ten minute speech on the wonders of Trump-ism. 

My wife gets bombarded by thousands of ad windows and feed advertisements and "news" stories everyday. Do you know how many of them she actually reads? Close to zero. 

This is way, way overblown. And it wasn't one single ad, it was dozens of cheap ads, which were sprinkled around the internet via Facebook and such. 

It is a small win.

Justin Bieber, or name any other "real" celebrity, goes and pees on a tree, and it gets posted on Youtube and gets this many hits. 

On 2/17/2018 at 2:52 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

In 2012 he files a trademark for MAGA.

In 2013 he spent $1m to research a 2016 running.

Well he did run in 2012, right? Why is it sinister that he researched running again?

Quote

Yes, there is also pics of a smiling Trump with Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Do those prove anything? And she looks the type Trump would desire to have a pic with.

Quote

It's clear that his excuse is extremely flimsy. He obviously told Russians he was running at least as far back as 2014, and likely while in Russia in 2013.

(Information above lifted from multiple Reddit posts).

As flimsy as these marginally linked allegations?

Edited February 18, 2018 by DieChecker

[ExpandMyMind]

23 hours ago, Merc14 said:

because the guy physically had drugs on him, this was a conversation that wasn't recorded so there was NOTHING to discover.   Your assertion is ridiculous.

You don't know what Mueller has on Flynn. Your assumption that he has nothing is baseless. In fact it's ludicrous, considering he has a guilty plea.

23 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Well the plea was lying to the two agents that interviewed him so if Mueller has something more on him then why not charge him with it?

Because he is cooperating with the Russia investigation. In simpler terms: he's been flipped.

Likely Gates will also end up with lesser charges or outright immunity.

23 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Great.  Mueller is prosecuting Manafort for money laundering and other offenses perpetrated from 2014-2016 with Ukrainians, nothing at all to do with Trump so why didn't the DoJ take care of this? 

It is widely believed that Manafort would know of any skeletons in the campaign's closet. As such, the tactic is to go after him and then lean on him for information. Like he's done with Flynn, Papadopoulos and Gates.

It's called a strategy. 

Have you seriously never watched a cop show? Never caught an episode of Law and Order?

 

[ExpandMyMind]

21 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm... really ? I'm not sure that is correct ? 

From wikipedia.... 

"...On May 17, 2017, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller, a former Director of the FBI, to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice (DOJ). In this capacity, Mueller oversees the investigation into "any links and/or coordination between Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".^{[6]..... "}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#Origin_and_powers

That kinda has an implication of influence on the election, or why would they bother investigating a presidential candidate, during the period of a presidential election ?

 

Muller's mandate is to find evidence of Russian meddling and find out whether or not the Trump campaign cooperated. It has nothing to do with discovering how effective the operation was.

You can read the actual letter drafted here.

[ExpandMyMind]

13 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Reallly?   You aren't that clued into this are you as he was offered a fairly open ended invitation to investigate whatever he wants, see my post #3790 above.   I have a question just why do you think he is trying to prosecute 13 Russian nationals that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump or his campaign staff if his mandate is so narrow? 

It's really simple: He is investigating whether or not crimes have been committed. Whether or not the Russian operation was successful in swaying the election is not a crime. It is the attempt to do so that may be criminal. 

Likely the reason why he has brought charges against those Russians is because they committed numerous crimes. That's generally what investigators do - catch criminals.

Why the charges have been brought now instead of later? Well, that's maybe a bit more political than anything else. See, now that it is undeniable that Russia interfered in the election, it will be pretty much impossible for Trump to fire Mueller. How can he be fired for doing his job? 

Pretty smart move by Mueller.

13 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Because there wasn't any as reported by Mueller.

More likely because it isn't a crime.

13 hours ago, Merc14 said:

h this will be studied but iton't be Trump they are studying, it will be the endemic corruption of the Obama administration. 

Yeah, okay then.

13 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Glad I took you off ignore, you make a great punching bag, damn near as good as ninjadude

Continually saying something doesn't magically make it true. You might think that you're presenting a better case but

 

[ExpandMyMind]

7 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

What substance do you post? Just the latest gossip about some absurd "Shadowy Russians" who may or may not have once posted something on facebook. And you say others have no substance?!  You're about the only one keeping this ridiculous affair going.

You wouldn't know what substance I post because you just appear every few days to say something sarcastic like 'oh, is this still a thing' or 'this investigation really is in overdrive now'.

You made your mind up about this whole thing before it even began. For me it was the Trump Tower meeting that really swayed me, but I guess that you just don't have time to properly research it during the adverts on RT News.

I'm not keeping it going, the investigation keeps it going. I merely post updates, facts and opinions related to what is going on.

7 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Indeed, it's been shown pretty conclusively that the "Steele Dossier", for one, was almost certainly a Ukrainian propaganda operation. 

What on earth are you talking about? You do realise that in the post you replied to, Uncle Sam had misunderstood the meaning of the poster he was replying to (which was cleared up). No one was saying Ukraine was responsible for anything or that those indicted were even Ukrainian. And you used that to spout some nonsense about the Steele dossier being a Ukranian operation? 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

thought that was 100 million instances. As in a tiny corner popup, or easily ignored news feed on your wall. I don't think it means 100 million people getting a ten minute speech on the wonders of Trump-ism. 

Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

wife gets bombarded by thousands of ad windows and feed advertisements and "news" stories everyday. Do you know how many of them she actually reads? Close to zero. 

If you think that those posts don't have an effect, then you haven't been paying attention.

I've seen people on Facebook go from logical thinking, intelligent human beings to outright conspiracy nuts in no time at all.

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Well he did run in 2012, right? Why is it sinister that he researched running again?

 

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

there is also pics of a smiling Trump with Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Do those prove anything? And she looks the type Trump would desire to have a pic with.

There is nothing sinister about wanting to run and I didn't post that Tweet for the pic, I posted it for the text and date. Trump claimed that because he didn't announce until after the Russians started the campaign in 2014, that this automatically absolves him. I was simply showing that it does not, since he obviously had told people, one who happens to be a Russian politician, that he planned to run, way back then.

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

s flimsy as these marginally linked allegations?

Considering his track record with Russia and lying about Russia, I'd say his excuse is quite a bit more-so.

[Merc14]

58 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You don't know what Mueller has on Flynn. Your assumption that he has nothing is baseless. In fact it's ludicrous, considering he has a guilty plea.

What is ludicrous is to continue to hang onto your sick hope that Mueller is holding back his big reveal for over a year now.

58 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Because he is cooperating with the Russia investigation. In simpler terms: he's been flipped.

Likely Gates will also end up with lesser charges or outright immunity.

You keep dreaming

58 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It is widely believed that Manafort would know of any skeletons in the campaign's closet. As such, the tactic is to go after him and then lean on him for information. Like he's done with Flynn, Papadopoulos and Gates.

I'm sure he does yet he is being prosecuted for his misbehavior years before joining the Trump team.   There was no collusion, it is a myth and only people with a rabid, blinding hatred of Trump and anything on the right still believes there was.

58 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's called a strategy. 

Have you seriously never watched a cop show? Never caught an episode of Law and Order?

[preacherman76]

I made up my mind this was a total witch hunt when I found out Hillary paid Russians for this fake dossier, and somehow wasn't included in this investigation. My beliefs on the matter where confirmed by the text messages of the top agent involved who stated they were setting up a insurance policy in case Trump was elected. Same guy who let Hillary off the hook, admittedly because he didn't want to upset her, in case she became president.

 At the time I wasn't even aware of the deep ties certain individuals in the FBI had the Fusion GPS. Then come to find out this investigation would have never gone as far as it did had the FBI disclosed the fact that they got this information through payments from the opposing campaign.

Never mind all the other crap. Like Steel being openly "passionate about Trump not getting elected".

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. People who still believe Trump colluded with Russians are right up there with flat earthers.

And now we are down to indicting facebook trolls, it only proves the point even further.  

[Merc14]

14 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I made up my mind this was a total witch hunt when I found out Hillary paid Russians for this fake dossier, and somehow wasn't included in this investigation. My beliefs on the matter where confirmed by the text messages of the top agent involved who stated they were setting up a insurance policy in case Trump was elected. Same guy who let Hillary off the hook, admittedly because he didn't want to upset her, in case she became president.

 At the time I wasn't even aware of the deep ties certain individuals in the FBI had the Fusion GPS. Then come to find out this investigation would have never gone as far as it did had the FBI disclosed the fact that they got this information through payments from the opposing campaign.

Never mind all the other crap. Like Steel being openly "passionate about Trump not getting elected".

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. People who still believe Trump colluded with Russians are right up there with flat earthers.

And now we are down to indicting facebook trolls, it only proves the point even further.  

Well said.  Everyone but the most hardcore haters know thee wasn't any collusion and this recent indictment backs that assertion up, especially when Mueller has gone out of his way to make the point that no Americans were knowingly involved.  The hater's next hope is obstruction of justice.  This is equally absurd since noting was obviously obstructed.     If Mueller brings this charge he will lose for that very reason.  The next step would be to goo after some key players and the haters hope it will be Trump's son for....something.  Collusion makes no sense since one short meeting with a Russian national about dirt on Hillary is a molehill compared to Hillary's mountain of the Trump dossier, if Mueller brings that charge then Rosenstein should insist Mueller investigate Hillary and bring similar charges against those involved. 

[RAyMO]

At this stage nothing is evidenced or un-evidenced except that which has been explicitly stated. The wording of the indictment was deliberate, read what you want into that  - in the end it doesn't really matter.

I suspect Mueller will hold a very public unveiling of his findings in full, when the time is right. Whether there is any collusion outside of this indictment time will time. However, I think he has more to bring forward (not necessarily collusion) otherwise we would have had is wrap up already.

Until Mueller has his final press conference, I suspect some at least will be sleeping less well than normal.

[RoofGardener]

20 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Well said.  Everyone but the most hardcore haters know thee wasn't any collusion and this recent indictment backs that assertion up, especially when Mueller has gone out of his way to make the point that no Americans were knowingly involved.  The hater's next hope is obstruction of justice.  This is equally absurd since noting was obviously obstructed.     If Mueller brings this charge he will lose for that very reason.  The next step would be to goo after some key players and the haters hope it will be Trump's son for....something.  Collusion makes no sense since one short meeting with a Russian national about dirt on Hillary is a molehill compared to Hillary's mountain of the Trump dossier, if Mueller brings that charge then Rosenstein should insist Mueller investigate Hillary and bring similar charges against those involved. 

I think this investigation is worthwhile... even if it proves that there was no "collusion". 

In addition.. we're talking politics... both on the side of the Russians, the Democrats, the Republicans... and the Ruddington Gardeners Association. !! 

Collusion ? I'm not convinced. 

But opportunism ? Highly likely. But then... so what ? That's just "business as usual". 

[Merc14]

28 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I think this investigation is worthwhile... even if it proves that there was no "collusion". 

In addition.. we're talking politics... both on the side of the Russians, the Democrats, the Republicans... and the Ruddington Gardeners Association. !! 

Collusion ? I'm not convinced. 

But opportunism ? Highly likely. But then... so what ? That's just "business as usual". 

I  think one BIG point that the left is missing is all this Russian activity took place under Obama who seems, despite being aware of it, to have done nothing but scold Putin.

[RoofGardener]

56 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I  think one BIG point that the left is missing is all this Russian activity took place under Obama who seems, despite being aware of it, to have done nothing but scold Putin.

Umm... I dunno Merc14. I think it's been going on since.. gosh.. dunno... 1917  ? 

[+and-then]

On 2/17/2018 at 10:48 AM, RoofGardener said:

Umm... really ? I'm not sure that is correct ? 

From wikipedia.... 

"...On May 17, 2017, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller, a former Director of the FBI, to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice (DOJ). In this capacity, Mueller oversees the investigation into "any links and/or coordination between Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".^{[6]..... "}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#Origin_and_powers

That kinda has an implication of influence on the election, or why would they bother investigating a presidential candidate, during the period of a presidential election ?

 

Ex is engaging in that fine old legal tradition of parsing.  Remember the example of Bill Clinton - "It depends on what 'IS', is"  

The anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade feel it should be sufficient to show a pattern of behavior that Trump INTENDED to work with the Russians to harm HRC's chances.  That's what this has all come down to.  Pathetic, really.

[RoofGardener]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

Ex is engaging in that fine old legal tradition of parsing.  Remember the example of Bill Clinton - "It depends on what 'IS', is"  

The anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade feel it should be sufficient to show a pattern of behavior that Trump INTENDED to work with the Russians to harm HRC's chances.  That's what this has all come down to.  Pathetic, really.

Fortunately, the Mueller enquiry is not controlled by the anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade.  

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Fortunately, the Mueller enquiry is not controlled by the anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade.  

No?  It's filled with members, anyway.  One of the principles in this saga is Comey and he's responsible for triggering another principle (Rod Rosenstein) into adding ANOTHER principle, in Mueller, to investigate it all.  The whole damned thing is dirty and contrived.

[Space Commander Travis]

12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Fortunately, the Mueller enquiry is not controlled by the anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade.  

No, of course not. 

It was only set up to find an excuse as to how Trump could possibly have won, after all. It's absolutely not biased against the Orange one in any way or shape, not at all.  

[RoofGardener]

Nevertheless, it needs doing

You REALLY haven't cottoned on yet ?

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by RoofGardener

[bee]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Fortunately, the Mueller enquiry is not controlled by the anti-Trump Hysteria Brigade.  

 

worse than that ---  the cold calculating anti Trump brigade....... ?

 

 

[Harte]

4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

From your link:

Quote

Russia-backed content reached as many as 126 million Americans on Facebook during and after the 2016 presidential election, according to the company’s prepared testimony submitted to the Senate judiciary committee before hearings this week.

Facebook believes 120 fake Russian-backed pages created 80,000 posts that were received by 29 million Americans directly, but reached a much bigger audience by users sharing, liking and following the posts.

The qualifier, I note, was conveniently left out.

The above means potentially 126 million.

In other words, perhaps 126 million were exposed to it, not that 126 million actually read or clicked on any of the postings.

This is what was said by DieChecker.

4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If you think that those posts don't have an effect, then you haven't been paying attention.

I've seen people on Facebook go from logical thinking, intelligent human beings to outright conspiracy nuts in no time at all.

If we're gonna count personal experience here, then I have to say that my experience of FB is that the Anti-Trump (or pro Hillary) crazies outnumber the pro-Trump crazies by about 10 to 1.

4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

There is nothing sinister about wanting to run and I didn't post that Tweet for the pic, I posted it for the text and date. Trump claimed that because he didn't announce until after the Russians started the campaign in 2014, that this automatically absolves him. I was simply showing that it does not, since he obviously had told people, one who happens to be a Russian politician, that he planned to run, way back then.

Considering his track record with Russia and lying about Russia, I'd say his excuse is quite a bit more-so.

Do you think maybe that Trump is in a better position than you to say at what point he made the final decision to run again?

Harte

[bee]

3 hours ago, RAyMO said:

At this stage nothing is evidenced or un-evidenced except that which has been explicitly stated. The wording of the indictment was deliberate, read what you want into that  - in the end it doesn't really matter.

I suspect Mueller will hold a very public unveiling of his findings in full, when the time is right. Whether there is any collusion outside of this indictment time will time. However, I think he has more to bring forward (not necessarily collusion) otherwise we would have had is wrap up already.

Until Mueller has his final press conference, I suspect some at least will be sleeping less well than normal.

 

maybe Mueller himself might be having trouble sleeping and will be glad when it's all over - 

I speculated a while back that he might step down for ''''health reasons'''' to save face....