Russia probes kick into high gear

[Merc14]

4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Just to inform you guys that it looks so bizarre when someone's acting like they can't understand why would Ukraine pay bribe to Trump, and how's that proving Trump/Putin conspiracy.

 

Trump openly bragged about dismantling NATO in case the members don't literally pay the protection money, to US directly, while meaning that as to him directly, which is absolutely not how any of that works.

Still, while that man has no power to dismantle NATO, or personally leech its funds, he certainly can and does undermine the American presence and influence anywhere, Europe included. And he apparently can have his lawyer receive direct protection money payments.

 

Facing Russian aggression, now with pro-Russian US (!), Ukraine – quite logically - literally paid for direct talks with Trump. Which is apparently legal in the US? I don't know, but either way I'm mildly shocked – is it worse to think it's legal, or that it's not, but it's still done without any consequences?

Paying for contact with Trump is nothing extraordinary, I just read that private photo session with Trump is being advertised among Chinese businessmen. (I won't provide any links, but it shouldn't be hard for anyone to check that.)

(I live in a small country with proverbially screwed up government, but still I'd die from shame if my president was advertising handshakes for a fee.)

 

So it's not a question why would Ukraine pay bribe to current US president. They were trying to buy protection/exemption from Trump's obvious pro-Russian efforts.

Now, when that bribe was proven to be wasted, the whole thing was coincidentally made public.

 

Looking forward to such interesting coincidences in the near future, I wonder of what use is denying the obvious?

It's not like Trump will grow any competence or patriotism if you just deny his actions and consequences of his actions long enough.

 

A couple months ago you were dismissing us as CT wackos for even suggesting Obama had spies in the Trump campaign and now they admit it and not even an apology from you.  Maybe you should stop lecturing considering how very wrong you have been for the last 17 months.

[Helen of Annoy]

17 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

A couple months ago you were dismissing us as CT wackos for even suggesting Obama had spies in the Trump campaign and now they admit it and not even an apology from you.  Maybe you should stop lecturing considering how very wrong you have been for the last 17 months.

Spies? FBI monitoring possible Russian infiltration in your country's election process is now spying? 

Because the President you had back then was... remind me what was different about him, compared to other presidents? Oh, yes, he was black. 

It's so pathetic, you know, being so offended with the colour of one's skin. And it's especially bizarre since the person currently in the president's chair is black by every stereotype except the colour of his skin. Gold-plated everything, hordes of children from multiple sexual partners, suspicious literacy, boasting and bragging all day every day... if I saw no photo of Trump, I'd say you've elected a rapper.   

 

Anyway, was Obama, the last American president, supposed to order stopping of the monitoring of the Russian infiltration just because one of the monitored decided to run for the president again?

Do you begin to notice how unusable are your talking points when attempting to address people outside your sect? 

And the longer this circus goes on, the stupider spins are heard. FBI was spying. Good grief. Can't your people contact Kremlin for some creative dezinformacija? 

[GlitterRose]

 

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

A couple months ago you were dismissing us as CT wackos for even suggesting Obama had spies in the Trump campaign and now they admit it and not even an apology from you.  Maybe you should stop lecturing considering how very wrong you have been for the last 17 months.

The claim of spies in the campaign has been thoroughly debunked. It was nothing more than an attempt to, yet again, discredit yet another revelation of Trump's ties to Russia. Even using the word 'spy' was a calculated PR move.

I'm not sure how people have been wrong? Not only have the claims of collusion with Russia been shown to be true, we have found out that they also colluded (or at least desired to collude) with the Saudis and Israelis in an attempt to win the election. 

The Trump campaign started off by saying they had no contact with Russians. Now there are almost weekly revelations of new, previously unknown contacts with Russians.

Denying something over and over doesn't change reality.

Edited May 26, 2018 by ExpandMyMind

[ian hacktorp]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Gold-plated everything, hordes of children from multiple sexual partners, suspicious literacy, boasting and bragging all day every day... if I saw no photo of Trump, I'd say you've elected a rapper.

Here's a valuable tip for you if you're hoping to win support for your argument from ANYONE in the US:

Never use negative racial stereotypes to demonize someone for any reason.  You will soon find yourself with no supporters at all.

You're welcome.

[ian hacktorp]

3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The claim of spies in the campaign has been thoroughly debunked.

No it hasn't.  It's been admitted to along with a mealy-mouthed attempt to justify it with a weak semantical gambit.  "We no longer call it spying; we call it human intelligence.  Therefore it's not spying."

It's spying and they will be prosecuted for it, whining and crying like babies the entire time.  Great theater for some of us.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

Here's a valuable tip for you if you're hoping to win support for your argument from ANYONE in the US:

Never use negative racial stereotypes to demonize someone for any reason.  You will soon find yourself with no supporters at all.

You're welcome.

But I'm not hoping to win any support. And I already know that hypocrisy is what your society expects. Which doesn't mean I'm about to follow that fashion. 

And if I was hoping for the support in the US, negative racial stereotypes would most certainly win me huge support from the same crowd that idolizes Trump, who regularly describes Mexicans as rapists and gang-members, calls all illegal immigrants animals, doesn't want any Africans but desires more Norwegians (like anyone from a civilized country would move to US) and so on. 

 

Speaking of Trump and his opinion on immigration, what do you think, will Melanija's parents, who chain-immigrated, be given citizenship? 

Because right now, they are somehow almost illegal, especially since her way into US was more than dubious and you know what Trump thinks of those. 

[ian hacktorp]

37 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

But I'm not hoping to win any support. And I already know that hypocrisy is what your society expects. Which doesn't mean I'm about to follow that fashion. 

And if I was hoping for the support in the US, negative racial stereotypes would most certainly win me huge support from the same crowd that idolizes Trump, who regularly describes Mexicans as rapists and gang-members, calls all illegal immigrants animals, doesn't want any Africans but desires more Norwegians (like anyone from a civilized country would move to US) and so on. 

 

Speaking of Trump and his opinion on immigration, what do you think, will Melanija's parents, who chain-immigrated, be given citizenship? 

Because right now, they are somehow almost illegal, especially since her way into US was more than dubious and you know what Trump thinks of those. 

Even the anti-Trump propaganda media have conceded he referred to murderous MS-13 gang members as "animals", no one else.  Perhaps the news travels very slowly to your location.

Also, we can assume Melania's parents will be given citizenship if they committed no crimes.

Btw, "somehow almost illegal"?  In Croatia, can someone be "somehow almost pregnant"?  Not in the US.

Edited May 26, 2018 by hacktorp

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Even the anti-Trump propaganda media have conceded he referred to murderous MS-13 gang members as "animals", no one else.  Perhaps the news travels very slowly to your location.

Also, we can assume Melania's parent will be given citizenship if they committed no crimes.

Btw, "somehow almost illegal"?  In Croatia, can someone be "somehow almost pregnant"?  Not in the US.

Aha. Great. So, the young Guatemalan woman shot on your border was a gang member or only looked like one? 

She committed which crime, exactly? Crossing the border, all right, on foot, that's serious... if she came in the plane, like the first lady, it wouldn't matter if she had visa or not at that particular moment.   

See, that amount of hypocrisy is so... unbelievable. 

 

On a less serious note, yes, you do have somehow almost pregnant people in the US. They're not pregnant, but they certainly look like they are. 

[ian hacktorp]

54 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Aha. Great. So, the young Guatemalan woman shot on your border was a gang member or only looked like one? 

She committed which crime, exactly? Crossing the border, all right, on foot, that's serious... if she came in the plane, like the first lady, it wouldn't matter if she had visa or not at that particular moment.   

See, that amount of hypocrisy is so... unbelievable. 

 

On a less serious note, yes, you do have somehow almost pregnant people in the US. They're not pregnant, but they certainly look like they are. 

The Guatemalan woman was among a group of people that attacked a border patrol agent with clubs.  Your failure to acknowledge this crucial fact is disingenuous.

And yes, the US does have people that look like that.  What's ironic is that the worst of them are precisely the sort of neo-Marxist, government-feeding, self-hating, never-Trumpers you seem so fond of.  Kinda funny, eh?

Edited May 26, 2018 by hacktorp

[Merc14]

7 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Spies? FBI monitoring possible Russian infiltration in your country's election process is now spying? 

Because the President you had back then was... remind me what was different about him, compared to other presidents? Oh, yes, he was black. 

It's so pathetic, you know, being so offended with the colour of one's skin. And it's especially bizarre since the person currently in the president's chair is black by every stereotype except the colour of his skin. Gold-plated everything, hordes of children from multiple sexual partners, suspicious literacy, boasting and bragging all day every day... if I saw no photo of Trump, I'd say you've elected a rapper.   

 

Anyway, was Obama, the last American president, supposed to order stopping of the monitoring of the Russian infiltration just because one of the monitored decided to run for the president again?

Do you begin to notice how unusable are your talking points when attempting to address people outside your sect? 

And the longer this circus goes on, the stupider spins are heard. FBI was spying. Good grief. Can't your people contact Kremlin for some creative dezinformacija? 

LMAO.  Yeah sure that was what was going on.  What I am laughing at is your probably believe this story just like you believed the collusion story and like you have believed Papa+ was a master spy or Page and you believed evry other lie and BS story the media and the democrats have fed you and STILL you scoff us off as know nothings and with massive amounts of hubris spit out the last thing you were told to say.    I know you don't just how silly and sad this makes you look but they, it iss a good look on you.  Keep up the good work, right through teh midterms, works for me.

[Helen of Annoy]

10 hours ago, hacktorp said:

The Guatemalan woman was among a group of people that attacked a border patrol agent with clubs.  Your failure to acknowledge this crucial fact is disingenuous.

And yes, the US does have people that look like that.  What's ironic is that the worst of them are precisely the sort of neo-Marxist, government-feeding, self-hating, never-Trumpers you seem so fond of.  Kinda funny, eh?

Don't you worry about my failures, you've got failures much closer to you, that will affect your future, to think about.

Starting with your border patrol failure to secure the border without shooting unarmed women dead. I know you're used to unarmed non-white people being shot for more-less particular reasons besides their colour, but you shouldn't be. 

Being aware that others, regardless of their ethnicity, are people too, is not Marxism. It's common sense. The racism Trump is trying to legalize will backfire on you. You have no moral or ethnics, but you really should buy some of that common sense I keep telling you about. 

 

9 hours ago, Merc14 said:

LMAO.  Yeah sure that was what was going on.  What I am laughing at is your probably believe this story just like you believed the collusion story and like you have believed Papa+ was a master spy or Page and you believed evry other lie and BS story the media and the democrats have fed you and STILL you scoff us off as know nothings and with massive amounts of hubris spit out the last thing you were told to say.    I know you don't just how silly and sad this makes you look but they, it iss a good look on you.  Keep up the good work, right through teh midterms, works for me.

Your pieces of whataboutism have little to do with what I said. I'm under impression you just randomly copy/paste from your collection of 'but what about' without even reading my posts.

On one hand, this is fine, because I know I'm tiresome when I start ranting, but on the other hand, it leaves a little pathetic impression, like you rather wouldn't talk about the disaster you voted for.   

[Harte]

Meanwhile:

Quote

 

Croatia: Asylum Seekers Forced Back to SerbiaAsylum Seekers Denied Access to Protection; Subject to Violence

 

Harte

[Helen of Annoy]

12 minutes ago, Harte said:

Meanwhile:

Harte

There are uglier, yet more proven stories you could mention, you know. I guess they aren't ready-made, in English. 

Anyway, there are (the equivalent of) trumpers over here too. Which is the reason why I waste my time here occasionally. You have to be stopped. This time, you have to be stopped. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Helen of Annoy

[Harte]

Mote in your neighbor's eye, beam in your own.

Harte

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

Mote in your neighbor's eye, beam in your own.

Harte

Whataboutism again. 

Yes, migrants are often treated inhumanely. Personally, I don't vote for parties who promise that.  

How's that making Trump any less incompetent, controlled by Russians and prone to blurt out Hitleresque statements? 

 

And, by the way, who broke Afghanistan? You break it, you buy it. All these poor people drowning in Danube are yours.   

[Harte]

Because Afghanistan was fine before the US intervened, of course.

Harte

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Because Afghanistan was fine before the US intervened, of course.

Harte

By funny coincidence, it was just another of numerous places were things got significantly worse after US intervention. 

Anyway, there are thousands of Asians, Arabs, Africans... are you guys doing it alphabetically? ... getting lost around south-east Europe and now, when America is great again, couldn't you come and pick them up? They are yours. You're littering. You'll never get great again if you don't learn to clean after yourself. 

 

Can we stop now? It's fun, but we're derailing the thread. 

 

More on topic, morning twit by Trump was especially drama-queenic, so I wonder who started cooperating yesterday. 

[Merc14]

12 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Your pieces of whataboutism have little to do with what I said. I'm under impression you just randomly copy/paste from your collection of 'but what about' without even reading my posts.

On one hand, this is fine, because I know I'm tiresome when I start ranting, but on the other hand, it leaves a little pathetic impression, like you rather wouldn't talk about the disaster you voted for.   

Start listing the disasters and we can talk but posting ceaselessly how vile Trump is gets old for everybody to read except maybe your few fellow travelers still posting.  You want discussion, great, which particular disaster irks you the most?

[hatecraft]

5 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

And, by the way, who broke Afghanistan? 

Islam.

[AnchorSteam]

[Paranormal Panther]

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

He likely has the same outlook on bugging people when they *spy* on them. "The cameras and microphones, as well as the computer hacks and the telephone taps, were mere informants of the non-human kind. They were not eavesdropping devices." He's a semantics magician with linguistic sleights of hand.

[Merc14]

The excuse is absurd!  If they were spying on Trump to "protect  him" the why the hellweren't they spying, I mean protecting Hillary's campaign?  She and the DNC actually had their email stolen by Russians if you want to believe that BS.   Yeah I know, we have some special people here that believe, hell rabidly support, everything they are told by the media but the rest of the population is laughing at this absurdity.  Keep it up dems, the midterms are nearly here and you have already gone from 16 points up to 3 down, great job!

[Tiggs]

2 hours ago, Merc14 said:

The excuse is absurd!  If they were spying on Trump to "protect  him" the why the hellweren't they spying, I mean protecting Hillary's campaign? 

Because Hillary's campaign wasn't hiring people that were previously on the FBI's books as suspected Russian assets.
 

[Merc14]

25 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Because Hillary's campaign wasn't hiring people that were previously on the FBI's books as suspected Russian assets.
 

Are you sure about that Tiggs? Be careful.