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Aquila King

Does Real Magic Actually Exist?

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GlitterRose
2 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

addtext_com_MjE1MzExODIwNjI.jpg

Let's see how long it takes before I have to debunk a video with them in it. 

Be using Cookie Monster's voice in some "demonic EVP."

Edited by ChaosRose
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Aquila King
Just now, ChaosRose said:

Let's see how long it takes before I have to debunk a video with them in it. 

Put it on the list, right after weredolphin.

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Lumpino

The question is what you call as a magic. 

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Rlyeh
7 hours ago, Aquila King said:

:huh: So, I found this video just now, and figured I'd share. Thought this would be interesting to discuss...

Her voice is nearly as painful as her convoluted superstitious reasoning.

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LV-426
17 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Think about it this way. If we could literally will things into being without any volitional effort. How lazy would we be? I'm thinking massively lazy. 

I'm thinking "Scarlett Johansson" and "a packet of Chocolate Hobnobs."

Alas... no magic happenin' here :(

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Adampadum123

I think magic is real if it fools your brain into it.and if you cannot explain it surely it's magic 

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Mr Walker
On 10/09/2017 at 3:02 AM, Aquila King said:

And due to it's mysterious nature, I'm real interested in this ^ ;)

I actually agree with everything you said in the above paragraph. Science is magic. However what I'm talking about specifically is the power to manipulate forces directly through conformity of our will. In other words, science works when we utilize these forces by building tools we use called technology. What I'm wondering is whether we could possibly utilize these forces by skipping the step of building and using technology and going directly into the effect.

In other words:

  • Willful Intent to Utilize Natural Forces + Technology = Environmental Effect
  • Willful Intent to Utilize Natural Forces = Environmental Effect

I hope I'm making some sort of sense... :wacko:

Advance the technology, and you achieve this end eventually.

We already have robotic prosthetics which are operated  by thought alone.  Reach a point where the robotics are made from nanites, and create an artificial limb indistinguishable from a real one, which you operate by thought just as you  do a real arm and you have science indistinguishable from magic.

 Create a small portable machine which translates matter into energy and vice versa and thus can teleport and or create matter from  electronic templates.  Again, operate this remotely by thought, and you are able to produce a meal or a new suit  simply by thinking. You are  able to dematerialise, materialise, and transport yourself, simply with a thought  command.

 Given current science, all this is probably less than a century away from reality and every day use.   There are already "primitive" machines which can wirelessly transfer thoughts from one person to another over distance,  including dream images and very simple phrases.  

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Mr Walker
On 10/09/2017 at 3:13 AM, XenoFish said:

Think about it this way. If we could literally will things into being without any volitional effort. How lazy would we be? I'm thinking massively lazy. 

Its just a progression from my grandfathers time to my grandchildrens time. My grandparents could not survive without fairly constant manual labour.  I have  hardly any need ever to do any at all to survive and live comfortably .  In two generations it will probably be totally optional .There is a danger in this but on the other hand leisure and recreation will become more important when we do not have to walk every where, chop wood for heating cooking  and hot water,   or do any manual work in the home.   IN my local area there are over a dozen gyms fitness centres boot camps etc Whereas in my childhood there was not one because none were needed. We walked or rode bikes everywhere  and spent  12 hours of a non school day in some form of active play or chores.  Tv cut into this a bit  by the time i was 10 or so but for many reasons we only watched a  couple of hours a day of tv, maximum, and this was usually in the evening,  so it didn't affect physical activity much      

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DieChecker

Does Real Magic Exist?

As a Christian, I'm going to say yes. Miraculous things can be Made to happen. Whether it is by way of prayers, or rituals, or special words, magic is just the manipulation of energy/spirit/matter, by way of authority given to mankind by God.

Does it have a 100% success rate? No. What success rate does it have? I dunno, but in my experience it is somewhat greater then random chance would suggest.

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I'mConvinced
On 08/09/2017 at 8:21 PM, papageorge1 said:

I believe there is something real going on involving the subtle planes of nature in some of this.

That's as clear as mud then.

A myriad of entities exist in these subtle realms/planes and are sometimes involved with these phenomena. Forces not understood to science exist on these planes also.

So sometimes some things are something to do with these phenomena? Well now it's clear.  I guess the only question to remain is where is the something that sometimes affects something? My guess is everywhere.

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 9/9/2017 at 9:56 AM, rashore said:
On 9/8/2017 at 2:24 PM, Aquila King said:
 
  Reveal hidden contents

 

mag·ic
ˈmajik/  
noun
noun: magic
  1. 1.
    the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
    "do you believe in magic?"
    synonyms: sorcery, witchcraft, wizardry, necromancy, enchantment, the supernatural, occultism, the occult, black magic, the black arts, voodoo, hoodoo, mojo, shamanism; More
    charm, hex, spell, jinx;
    pixie dust, fairy dust
    "do you believe in magic?"
    • mysterious tricks, such as making things disappear and appear again, performed as entertainment.
      synonyms: conjuring tricks, sleight of hand, legerdemain, illusion, prestidigitation
      "he does magic at children's parties"
    • a quality that makes something seem removed from everyday life, especially in a way that gives delight.
      "the magic of the theater"
      synonyms: allure, attraction, excitement, fascination, charm, glamour
      "the magic of the stage"
    • informal
      something that has a delightfully unusual quality.
      "their seaside town is pure magic"
adjective
adjective: magic
  1. 1.
    used in magic or working by magic; having or apparently having supernatural powers.
    "a magic wand"
    synonyms: supernatural, enchanted, occult
    "a magic spell"
    • very effective in producing results, especially desired ones.
      "confidence is the magic ingredient needed to spark recovery"
  2. 2.
    informal
    wonderful; exciting.
    "what a magic moment"
    synonyms: fascinating, captivating, charming, glamorous, magical, enchanting, entrancing, spellbinding, magnetic, irresistible, hypnotic More
    "a magic place"
    marvelous, wonderful, excellent, admirable;
    informalterrific, fabulous, brilliant
    "we were magic together"
verb
verb: magic; 3rd person present: magics; past tense: magicked; past participle: magicked; gerund or present participle: magicking
  1. 1.
    move, change, or create by or as if by magic.
    "he must have been magicked out of the car at the precise second it exploded"
Origin
 
late Middle English (also in the sense ‘a magical procedure’): from Old French magique, from Latin magicus (adjective), late Latin magica (noun), from Greek magikē (tekhnē ) ‘(art of) a magus’: magi were regarded as magicians.
 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
magic (adj.) Look up magic at Dictionary.com
late 14c., from Old French magique, from Latin magicus "magic, magical," from Greek magikos, from magike (see magic (n.)). Magic carpet first attested 1816. Magic Marker (1951) is a registered trademark (U.S.) by Speedry Products, Inc., Richmond Hill, N.Y. Magic lantern "optical instrument whereby a magnified image is thrown upon a wall or screen" is 1690s, from Modern Latin laterna magica.
magic (v.) Look up magic at Dictionary.com
1906, from magic (n.).
magic (n.) Look up magic at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces," from Old French magique "magic, magical," from Late Latin magice "sorcery, magic," from Greek magike (presumably with tekhne "art"), fem. of magikos "magical," from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class," from Old Persian magush, which is possibly from PIE root *magh- "to be able, have power."

Transferred sense of "legerdemain, optical illusion, etc." is from 1811. Displaced Old English wiccecræft (see witch); also drycræft, from dry "magician," from Irish drui "priest, magician" (see druid).

 

 
Now, it doesn't matter what you call it, it's gone by many names. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just call it 'Magic'.
 
What I'm referring to is some sort of mysterious energy or force that exists, that has the power to influence or possibly completely warp reality in accordance with the user's will.
 
I'm personally very interested in this topic, as in my personal opinion if there is something spiritual that exists in the universe, then it isn't that much of a stretch for magic to (possibly) exist as well. ;)
 
And if magic does exist, what is it? And how does it work? What resources are available out there? What do we need to learn or do to practice such a craft?
 
Your thoughts? ^_^

Yes, magic does exist. When we are able to identify one of those mysterious forces, we term it under science, and yes, we do often learn how to warp it or use it to our will. Alchemy used to be magic, till we figured out the science behind it and it evolved into chemistry. The magic of it didn't go away, we just figured out what it is and how to harness it for our own use. Hedgerow witches used to be magic too, till we really started figuring out medicine and now the magics are known and utilized in science. Curses and blessings are magic- till we start learning about the human mind and how the power of belief works or don't. That whole area of magic has started being explained by the study of mental sciences, and we still have a long way to go yet. What used to be magics of unseen forces have turned out to be waves of various types that we can now manipulate at will, like electricity, radiation, radio, ect. I hold what is probably an unpopular view that science is magic, it's the stuff we have figured out so far. It's not any less amazing or magical to me just because we have explained and harnessed it with science. The rituals have turned into routine practices of the mundane, but they are followed, because we figured out that's the correct ritual to use to make the magic work correctly.

So, that then leaves the mysterious unexplained magics. The paranormal, supernatural stuff. Weird stuff is out there. All it really is is just science that we haven't figured out yet.

Hi :st

I did a cursory skim of the thread, (will go over again and again, if I must. :D    ;)  ) but I feel, I could put my 2............ million cents in this, if I could. :blush: 

The way I look at it, I think it's not an easy answer to give. Well, for me to give anyways. :w00t:  For me, to consider the environment of 'real', I would look at that as 'I can trust that it's there'. And then followed by, "I can trust it's there each time" :sk  

And if I'm understanding Rashor's post here, it probably has more than one meaning. For me, when thinking about the term 'magic' and how it's considered, I see two definitions. There is the entertainment variety, when there are magic tricks played to give us the 'ooooooooh' type feeling, and then there is the 'it happened out of nowhere' and usually not done for 'entertainment purposes'. 

'Magic tricks', tend to have mundane and explainable techniques, that shows how it looks like magic. In the end, for that, it's not magic but 'slight of hand'. ;)   

The other 'magic' well even then it's how you look at it. Again, I'm thinking of Rashor's post. Yes, what today we have come to understand and practice as science, may seem like magic to those in the past. I'm sure they would consider something coming up on a flat thin surface, that is sent through the air as magic. To us, we know that's technology receiving and sending something that is in the air, but we don't really see it. 

Is that 'real magic' in the end? For me, no. 

So, yes, AK, considering your thoughts on 'forces' and such, like in the 'paranormal' frame of thought, ( in which I'm sooo interested in ) well, I consider it, but not to the point as being real. For me, I consider it still a 'possibility'. For me, again, (sorry) I see a difference between 'real' and 'a possibility'. And I feel my subjective experiences, (or a whole bunch of 'subjective' experiences) can be considered 'possibilities'. I still think that it's not something to be considered entirely to deny. But objectively, I can't identify it. 

In the end, 'real' to me, is to objectively identify it, and I think 'magic' in this sense, is not yet or really can be 'objectively' real. To sum it up, I don't feel it's real, when it's still in a subjective stage. 

But that's my subjective, personal, 2 million cents point of view on that. 

:D 

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I'mConvinced

Short answer, no. Long answer, noooo.

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XenoFish
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Does Real Magic Exist?

As a Christian, I'm going to say yes. Miraculous things can be Made to happen. Whether it is by way of prayers, or rituals, or special words, magic is just the manipulation of energy/spirit/matter, by way of authority given to mankind by God.

Does it have a 100% success rate? No. What success rate does it have? I dunno, but in my experience it is somewhat greater then random chance would suggest.

Sure miracles can be made to happen metaphorically speaking. Using magical affirmations (prayers), with theatrics (rituals), and special words (suggestion), magic is then worked on the consciousness of others including yourself. You create a subconscious thought-pattern in which you see confirmation of what you believe to be "true". It doesn't manipulate energy in a way most think, unless that 'energy' is the electrical activity of the brain. Then again if it is given by divine authority from god, then a lot of gods have authority. 

If you want a 100% success rate, then you need

1)An objective goal.

2)A carefully made out plan.

3)The will to achieve.

Couple all this with perseverance. Then only real chance will occur.

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DieChecker
15 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Couple all this with perseverance. Then only real chance will occur.

I agree that actually doing the work yourself, or working toward a goal yourself, is a lot more effective. Using "Magic" is actually pretty lazy and probably is going to fail you.

Those who depend on their prayers coming true are going to be disappointed 99% of the time. Pray that you get healed, but also go to the doctor, and take your meds.

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Podo
On 9/16/2017 at 4:31 AM, I'mConvinced said:

Short answer, no. Long answer, noooo.

10/10, best comment :lol: Everyone else go home, the thread is over.

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Stiff
3 minutes ago, Podo said:

10/10, best comment :lol: Everyone else go home, the thread is over.

Agreed lol1.gif

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Mr Walker

Except that, depending on your definition , or understanding of, the nature of magic, it does exist. Magic is what we call things, for which we can currently see no scientific explanation, or, as Arthur C Clarke put it, magic is  the product of technologies so advanced that we cannot distiguish them from magic.

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I'mConvinced
9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Except that, depending on your definition , or understanding of, the nature of magic, it does exist. Magic is what we call things, for which we can currently see no scientific explanation, or, as Arthur C Clarke put it, magic is  the product of technologies so advanced that we cannot distiguish them from magic.

No, most normal people define them as the unknown areas of science.  Please show me one, just one, example of someone who works in the field calling dark matter 'magic'.

When are you going to understand the logical fallacy that is the god of the gaps argument? You then go on to misquote ACC as if what he said somehow supports your position...

Edited by I'mConvinced
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Mr Walker
37 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

No, most normal people define them as the unknown areas of science.  Please show me one, just one, example of someone who works in the field calling dark matter 'magic'.

When are you going to understand the logical fallacy that is the god of the gaps argument? You then go on to misquote ACC as if what he said somehow supports your position...

I didn't say people who work in the field. They are not normal people but experts.  The more expert you are in something, the  less  likely it is that you will define it as magic, but many ordinary humans still would consider many things as magic because they do not know the technology behind them.

  For example how would you define mind reading?

 Having read every book ever written by clarke plus his biography, I understand exactly what he meant  

 Humans often call something magic when it is totally beyond their comprehension   SO   Today humans do many things using technology  which 200 years ago would have been seen a s magic  In 200 years humans will be using matter transmitters creating things from energy and a template and transmitting them into their homes  It is likely that energy fields will replace solid construction   Healing remotely using  computer directed nano machines will be common  etc   How would you describe a person who drives their car or operates a remote undersea welding machine simply by mental commands 

This is how the law is written

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I think that is very clear, and precisely what i said .

What has any god got to do with this,  let alone a god of the gaps?    Humans attribute unknown things to magic and supernatural forces.

 . Always have, and still do.

It is only because we have a greater scientific general knowledge today that this is becoming less prevalent  

 None the less,  how would you think of a person you saw flying past you, apparently without  physical /mechanical assistance?  What would you think if you saw a human being dematerialise and then re materialise in front of you?  How would you explain a person walking straight through a solid wall ?  A t present these would appear magical, but will also be common place, due to technologies, within a century or two . What would a person from 1800 think of a modern holographic projection?  Here are some terrifying statistics to back up wha ti was getting at. 

57% of all americans believe in ufos.

54% believe in angels 

51% believe in telepathy  

39% believe in demons/devils

37 % in precognition

24 % in clair voyance

These figures are a bit old  but recent ones are similar 

In 2011 nearly 80% of americans said the y believed in angels.

In 2014 25 % of americans believed the earth revolved around the sun.

In 2013 30% of americans thought that cloud storage meant that data was actually stored in real clouds 

In 2014  73% of americans believed that jesus was born of a virgin mother  

 In 2008 55% of americans said that the y had had an experience where they were protected by a guardian angel. 

Thats what i meant by normal people :) 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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I'mConvinced
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I didn't say people who work in the field. They are not normal people but experts.  The more expert you are in something, the  less  likely it is that you will define it as magic, but many ordinary humans still would consider many things as magic because they do not know the technology behind them.

I disagree.  Give one example of a piece of technology that exists today that a person, today, would call magic.  They might say 'it is like magic' which is nothing like the same as 'it is magic'.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

For example how would you define mind reading?

As something with no basis in reality.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Humans attribute unknown things to magic and supernatural forces.

 . Always have, and still do.

Just because someone calls a dog a chicken it doesn't make it so.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

None the less,  how would you think of a person you saw flying past you, apparently without  physical /mechanical assistance?

I'd consider if there was any physical/mechanical assistance. I would then consider if I really saw what I thought I saw.  I would ask others what they saw.  Once all known possibilities are discounted I would call it an unknown and investigate it.  Still not magic.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

What would you think if you saw a human being dematerialise and then re materialise in front of you?

That I was watching Star Trek.  Still not magic.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

How would you describe a person who drives their car or operates a remote undersea welding machine simply by mental commands 

As a person operating machinery by mental commands.  I was operating my computer by mental command in 2011.  Still not magic.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

These figures are a bit old  but recent ones are similar 

In 2011 nearly 80% of americans said the y believed in angels.

In 2014 25 % of americans believed the earth revolved around the sun.

In 2013 30% of americans thought that cloud storage meant that data was actually stored in real clouds 

In 2014  73% of americans believed that jesus was born of a virgin mother  

 In 2008 55% of americans said that the y had had an experience where they were protected by a guardian angel. 

Thats what i meant by normal people :) 

Just because people are uneducated and believe in magic doesn't mean magic exists.  What is your actual point here? Are you saying magic exists because it's a word and people use it to describe stuff they don't know? Well that's still not magic.  

Edited by I'mConvinced
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pallidin

If quantum physics exists, then some type of magic exists by default.

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pallidin

Quantum physics provides "possibilities"

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pallidin

Those possibilities can be either mundane, or extraordinary.

 

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pallidin

It is truly unfortunate that the general public is forcefully unaware of the intel.

 

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Mr Walker
On 19/09/2017 at 9:17 PM, I'mConvinced said:

I disagree.  Give one example of a piece of technology that exists today that a person, today, would call magic.  They might say 'it is like magic' which is nothing like the same as 'it is magic'.

As something with no basis in reality.

Just because someone calls a dog a chicken it doesn't make it so.

I'd consider if there was any physical/mechanical assistance. I would then consider if I really saw what I thought I saw.  I would ask others what they saw.  Once all known possibilities are discounted I would call it an unknown and investigate it.  Still not magic.

That I was watching Star Trek.  Still not magic.

As a person operating machinery by mental commands.  I was operating my computer by mental command in 2011.  Still not magic.

Just because people are uneducated and believe in magic doesn't mean magic exists.  What is your actual point here? Are you saying magic exists because it's a word and people use it to describe stuff they don't know? Well that's still not magic.  

Holographic projection and a highlander from papua new guinea.

And there you go Science has already demonstrated mind to mind transfer of both words and sentences  and images You did not know this and so dismiss the possibility  

Ah but my original comment, and our debate,  was around precisely that. ( how we define magic.) I agree with you  that magic per se does not exist and yet humans define many tings which do exist a s magic or paranormal/supernatural .  

And if oyu could observe no mechanical assistance If you did ascertain  that what you saw was real,   what then?  and no I am  afraid you cant phone a friend the question asked how YOU would establish the nature of the flying man  let us assume there were no other witnesses.  I accept you might  not think of it as magic, but because it was inexplicable yet real, most human minds would at least consider the possibility of magic  This is the earliest form of cognition which evolves in a human mind, as a child,  and consequently adults remain heavily predisposed to think in this way.

Nice avoidance but in the question it wasnt on tv.  This scenario asks what you  would think if you actually saw it happen.  how would you explain It  to yourself

When it happened to me the first time  my first thought was "beam me up as well scotty" and i was seriously concerned that his might indeed happen.  After a little more thought i considered a holographic projection although this was well before humans had developed and perfected them   After more thought i decided it was an advanced technology transmitting  an entity into my presence and away from it a minute or so later   During that minute the entity in the transmat beam spoke with me and removed a 6 year addiction to smoking immediately and completely and correctly informed me that i would never smoke again. .

your last two points answer your question yes i am saying, and said from the start, that humans often describe real, but unknown or inexplicable to them, scenarios, as being magic.

You didn't find operating a computer by thought as magic because you were familiar with it  (and this was very ealry on because wireless transmission of thought controls was actually only developed around that time) before that implanted electrodes were required.  But just think of someone from 1950 observing a person sitting in a car, and driving it perfectly, while doing nothing.. In actuality the car is responding to thought commands from the driver, but the observer does not know this, and is totally unaware of any technology which might allow it to happen   From the perspective of such an observer they are observing magic a t work 

 

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