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CIA informant claimed Hitler survived WWII

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Carl G.

There is no solid evidence except witness testimony. It comes down to which you believe: the statements of Hitler's staff to the effect that he (and Eva) committed suicide, or the evidence of a relatively large number of more independent witnesses that he survived. All hearsay maybe. But what would be regarded as strong physical evidence? Photos (that can be faked)? Home movies (not of high quality in the 50s)? Hitler's alleged remains (now shown to be female in origin)? The Intelligence approach is to take the evidence in its entirety and assess the most likely conclusion. The 75% is purely my subjective judgment.  I think the objective observer would go for 50-50 at least.

The reason that the subject recurs at intervals is that more evidence is still being uncovered. I think we will be hearing more of this subject.

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The Narcisse

I think Hitler killed himself in the bunker but the body was decimated/destroyed by soldiers. Then, in a panic they grabbed a random skull not knowing DNA existed.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
7 hours ago, Carl G. said:

There is no solid evidence except witness testimony.

Which is a lot more that has ever been presented by the people who think Hitler survived.

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It comes down to which you believe: the statements of Hitler's staff to the effect that he (and Eva) committed suicide, or the evidence of a relatively large number of more independent witnesses that he survived.

Who are those thrustworthy independent witnesses of which you speak ?

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All hearsay maybe.

That we agree on.

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But what would be regarded as strong physical evidence? Photos (that can be faked)? Home movies (not of high quality in the 50s)?

I don't know what evidence would be conclusive, but so far nothing have stood up to any scutiny.

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Hitler's alleged remains (now shown to be female in origin)?

Hitlers body was originally identified based on his dental records. 

The skull in question was never actually known to be Hitlers. It was a skull that was found some time after the Battle for Berlin had ended and somebody thought that it might be Hitlers. Today we know that Hitlers body was found by a special SMERTH unit and hiden away on the orders of Stalin. Why he wanted to hide the truth about Hitlers death anyones guess, but people tended not to question Stalins orders. In the end it was then KGB chief Andropov who gave the order to dispose of mr. and ms. Hitlers bodies. The bodies were dumped in the Biederitz river in 1970 after having spend the intervening years buried at a Soviet military installation. The reason why the decision was made at that time was because said military installation was about to be turned over to the East German military and the Soviets didn't want Hitlers remains to be held by Germans.

On the other hand I don't expect you to believe this, but I hope others will read it and see that we actually do know what happened.

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The Intelligence approach is to take the evidence in its entirety and assess the most likely conclusion.

Based on the avilable evidence and what we know of Hitlers personality suicide was the most likely conclusion. One of the mistakes people makes is to consider Hitlers action based on what a rational person would do. Hitler was not a rational person !

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The 75% is purely my subjective judgment.  I think the objective observer would go for 50-50 at least.

Made up statistics aren't very usefull are they ?

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The reason that the subject recurs at intervals is that more evidence is still being uncovered.

Such as opening of the Soviet archives that tells us the real story of what happened.

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I think we will be hearing more of this subject.

Unfortunately yes. It seems that a surprisingly large number of people wants Hitler to have escaped.

The real mystery concerning the fate of Hitler is why so many people seem to want him to have survived.

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 11/09/2017 at 10:55 PM, Why not said:

Does it mean I'm so kinda bigot if I think that this just ain't right? 

Ohh I know .... those shoes with that top? Criminal I tell you.

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Carl G.

If you are basing your ideas upon what seem to be contradictory accounts of what SMERSH found in the bunker, then none of us can know for sure. One story says that the unit found only the burnt bodies of Joseph and Magda Goebbels and failed to locate any signs of Hitler or Eva.  Once again it comes down to which story you regard as most reliable.

I can't imagine that anyone, aside from fanatical neo Nazis, would have wanted Hitler to survive the war. But I think a lot of people would want to know the truth of the matter. Relying upon the testimony of people who afterwards said things like "I told American and British interrogators everything I thought they wanted to hear" (Hitler's chauffeur, speaking in 1974), or Nicolaus von Below, an adjutant, who stated that he had lied to Trevor-Roper and "had a good laugh" every time he saw his lies repeated in print, doesn't seem very bright. But then, if you believe what they told the UK and US agencies at that time, why not believe the pilot Peter Baumgart, who claimed to have flown Hitler and Eva out of Berlin? 

No, Hitler was not a normal person, but he was logical within his own twisted view of things.  Why should he commit suicide when he had been let down by the cowardly people of Germany?  Let them take the brunt of the Allied advance (he actually gave orders for the entire infrastructure to be destroyed, but these were countermanded by Speer). He would escape.  One of the most telling pieces of information to come out of the TV series was that Hitler had sent his and Eva's personal belongings out of Berlin a week or so before their alleged suicides. Not the act of someone preparing to make a last stand or commit suicide. 

Based on the sources available to me (Grey Wolf by Dunstan and Williams, and the research described in the two TV series of Hunting Hitler) I incline to the view that he did survive, although it doesn't seem to have made much difference to the world in the long run.

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Sooth Sayer

A few things people fail to think of are that Hitler had people willing to help at any cost. 

So lying about him having been in the bunker all the way up until the Russians showed up I mean, how hard could it be to say "yea Hitler was here the whole time". 

What proof is there of that? Written "documents".....again, lies. 

His closet followers killed their families and themselves or fled. 

The skull the Russians had, not his. The charred bodies, couldn't be identified and are gone. No leads there. 

Argentina was a nazi sympathizer nation. I'm sure they would've helped. 

So my conclusion is he probably did make a successful escape. Died in Argentina and never had to face his real, deserved fate which should have been an old fashion hanging. 

 

Edited by Sooth Sayer
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Sir Wearer of Hats

There are just enough oddities, the stories of a plane that tok off from Berlin just as the Red Army was securing (read: raping and pillaging) the city, the two Uboats that only surrendered months later, the use of doubles for Hitler (especially the corpse of the double that was found) for those so inclined to say Hitler survived to say “Hitler survived”. 

The documentary “Hunting Hitler” constructs a plausible timeline for his escape (mind you, Doctor Who constructs a plausible timeline for the moon being the egg of a giant space chicken). 

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Farmer77
5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

There are just enough oddities, the stories of a plane that tok off from Berlin just as the Red Army was securing (read: raping and pillaging) the city, the two Uboats that only surrendered months later, the use of doubles for Hitler (especially the corpse of the double that was found) for those so inclined to say Hitler survived to say “Hitler survived”. 

IMO the logical answer is that he could have. We just don't know for sure.

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Farmer77
6 hours ago, Sooth Sayer said:

So my conclusion is he probably did make a successful escape. Died in Argentina and never had to face his real, deserved fate which should have been an old fashion hanging. 

IDK somehow I think that dying in anonymity would be a much crueler fate for someone who tried to conquer the world. 

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pallidin

He was kind of a squirrel, if need be.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did manage to make it to South America.

Seems as if some of his henchmen did, so why not him?

Pretty good evidence. My ponder...

He's dead now, a body or bones would be nice.

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Sooth Sayer
11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

IDK somehow I think that dying in anonymity would be a much crueler fate for someone who tried to conquer the world. 

But to survive he may have thought he'd get another chance. He was a twisted individual. Those types rarely give up. 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
24 minutes ago, Sooth Sayer said:

But to survive he may have thought he'd get another chance. He was a twisted individual. Those types rarely give up. 

The show “Hunting Hitler” explores that. basically (according to them) there are places in South America that were effectively training facilities for Nazis. 

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and then
On 9/12/2017 at 7:06 AM, acute said:

It's a fact that the Nazis owned a lot of property in South America, so I think it's plausible that Hitler lived out his days over there.

All he had to do to be in disguise was shave off his moustache and get a haircut!

Possibly.  He was in very poor health by all accounts but I doubt he could have remained in the role of a forgotten, lowly individual, devoid of all power.  OTOH, he was smart enough to understand what would happen to him if the Russians ever got hold of him :blink:

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acute
7 hours ago, and then said:

Possibly.  He was in very poor health by all accounts but I doubt he could have remained in the role of a forgotten, lowly individual, devoid of all power.  OTOH, he was smart enough to understand what would happen to him if the Russians ever got hold of him :blink:

I'm sure he would rather have been in hiding than plasticating in a body bag.

Edited by acute
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mturk4256

While I have no evidence regarding Hitler's survival after 1945,  I was privy to information regarding U-boat activity between Argentina and "points south" up to 1949.  While studying the Argentine navy is not a big hobby in the US, it was fairly common knowledge in Argentina that Argentine naval facilities were used to support German vessels even after Argentina declared war on Germany on March 27, 1945 (just weeks before the German surrender).  A retired Argentine naval commander told me that Argentine facilities were used to supply and maintain German "vessels" until 1949.  When i asked for a date correction, he affirmed 1949.  When asked where they came from, he said "south of Argentina".  There is only one landmass south of Argentina.

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Carl G.

That's very interesting.  If Argentina was blatantly supporting German shipping years after the close of the war, then it becomes more plausible that they were also actively helping the top ranking Nazis (Hitler included maybe) who had sought refuge there.  If the Hunting Hitler team are right, that involved a lot more than giving them new identities and nice places to live..  So far they haven't found anything to do with the Antarctica connection though.

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The Narcisse
On 1/17/2018 at 7:13 AM, mturk4256 said:

While I have no evidence regarding Hitler's survival after 1945,  I was privy to information regarding U-boat activity between Argentina and "points south" up to 1949.  While studying the Argentine navy is not a big hobby in the US, it was fairly common knowledge in Argentina that Argentine naval facilities were used to support German vessels even after Argentina declared war on Germany on March 27, 1945 (just weeks before the German surrender).  A retired Argentine naval commander told me that Argentine facilities were used to supply and maintain German "vessels" until 1949.  When i asked for a date correction, he affirmed 1949.  When asked where they came from, he said "south of Argentina".  There is only one landmass south of Argentina.

So Hitler escaped Germany....went to Antarctica....and then Argentina? Strange route.

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acute
4 hours ago, The Narcisse said:

So Hitler escaped Germany....went to Antarctica....and then Argentina? Strange route.

Is it really? On a globe it isn't.

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HollyDolly

Well he might very well have survived going to Argentina. And I saw somewhere about a Nazi base of Antartica, whether true or not I don't know. Someone mentioned the russians. You would think that they would have taken out after Hitler. Look at the Isrealis in their hunt for Nazis like Josef mengele and others. Why wouldn't the russians try to track him down and bring him to justice after the atrocities carried out there. Would have been a big feather in Stalin's hat to go and find Hitler, put him on trial before the whole world and execute him.UNLESS, and here again you have the Vatican Rat line where nazis  escaped to  South America. or elsewhere. If Hitler did go to SA, tokeep himself out of Russian or jewish hands, the thing to do would be hide in some monastery somewhere, or as in the case of the priest Father Crespi, hide out  as a lowly parish priest in some backwater village or town. Hitler  wasn't  stupid enough to risk being caught, and doing something like i  suggest might have fit the bill to him.

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The Narcisse
21 hours ago, acute said:

Is it really? On a globe it isn't.

But we don't live on a globe...

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Podo
3 hours ago, The Narcisse said:

But we don't live on a globe...

Please please please tell me that you are joking.

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The Narcisse
1 hour ago, Podo said:

Please please please tell me that you are joking.

Of course I am.

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Podo
30 minutes ago, The Narcisse said:

Of course I am.

In this day and age, you never know, man.

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Brandy333
On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 11:47 AM, RoofGardener said:

I have to stay, this is very thin. 

"...an individual who strongly resembled and claimed to be Hitler,"

Hmm... anyone can LOOK like somebody, and it is curious that the informant never thought to take a photograph. Anyway, is it likely that somebody of Hitlers mentality would live a quiet life, and not seek to get involved in politics ? 

Also.. the name Schuttlemayer... that sounds more Jewish than German ? 

Schuttlemayer could very well have been Hitler, as it's a known fact he was part Jewish.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, Brandy333 said:

Schuttlemayer could very well have been Hitler, as it's a known fact he was part Jewish.

Please enlighten us how it is a "known fact" that Hitler was part jewish ?

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