Why is it spirituality vs skepticism?

[Aquila King]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I would love for you to present links that show where faith healing isn't a trigger for the placebo effect. I better not see the word quantum once.

Faith healing's one area I'd gladly tear down any day. And that's coming from a strong spiritualist.

[back to earth]

31 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Good thing you had the 'L' in thar sonny ...

~

 

Flapdoodle is an old one. Last time I heard that, it was  back in the late 70s

(I used to do a lot of nude sunbaking then .... in a very windy area . )

Edited September 12, 2017 by back to earth

[Aquila King]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

Seriously I understand . But, then again, have not our types become more and more accepted just in our lifetimes. Culture changes an inch a day. Stay invigorated, my friend!

Very true.

[XenoFish]

Just now, back to earth said:

 

That looks like the new kata I been learning   

420 blaze style of dank fu.

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Faith healing's one area I'd gladly tear down any day. And that's coming from a strong spiritualist.

I have no real issue with it as an assistance to proper medical care. Again this goes back to the mind body thing. It is when its presented as a cure all. That's where I draw the line.

[back to earth]

38 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I'm sorry to hear that.

And I'm also sorry that that made me laugh.

 

No one else can wreck your thread ... only you can wreck it for you .   

 

[Guyver]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I would love for you to present links that show where faith healing isn't a trigger for the placebo effect. I better not see the word quantum once.

I don't need to post a single link to demonstrate your statement illogical.  

It is likely that you have never experienced a non-tradition/spiritual healing; therefore you are skeptical.  It is CERTAIN that you haven't investigated all of them; and therefore, your claim is an argument from ignorance.  What you can say with truth and certainty is that you highly doubt that any of them are anything more than the placebo effect.  This is a belief.

Beliefs are not always factual.   I believe it's highly unlikely that a person can survive a free-fall in excess of 30,000 feet.  Yet it's been done.  See Vesna Vulovic.  

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I don't need to post a single link to demonstrate your statement illogical.  

It is likely that you have never experienced a non-tradition/spiritual healing; therefore you are skeptical.  It is CERTAIN that you haven't investigated all of them; and therefore, your claim is an argument from ignorance.  What you can say with truth and certainty is that you highly doubt that any of them are anything more than the placebo effect.  This is a belief.

Beliefs are not always factual.   I believe it's highly unlikely that a person can survive a free-fall in excess of 30,000 feet.  Yet it's been done.  See Vesna Vulovic.  

Show me the evidence. That's a you have to do. Plus stop with the assumption as to my knowledge of things. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by XenoFish

[Mr Walker]

42 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I say "god is an idea" and people lose their minds. They freak out as if I've mortally wounded their ego. I can back most if not all of my perspective up with links.

Dog is an idea.

I know you aren't reading this, so I guess it won't offend you,  or cause you to lose your mind. 

[XenoFish]

Do you know anything about the placebo effect or its evil twin the nocebo?

[Aquila King]

1 minute ago, Guyver said:

It is CERTAIN that you haven't investigated all of them

It is CERTAIN that literally thousands of people die each year due to following the advise of faith healing crackpots who tell them to throw away their medication because they're supposedly 'healed'.

I don't deny that there are other forms of healing out there (even spiritual healing), however medical care is as serious of an issue as they come, and without proper government regulation, there is essentially no way to weed out the genuine spiritual healings vs. the crackpots profiting off the sick and wounded.

[back to earth]

38 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Some of are interested.  I want to hear from people.....in general.  I know of people who can contort themselves into little boxes and stay there for days at a time.  Certain monks can meditate on the slopes of the Himalayan mountains all night and experience zero problems, when most of us would have died of hypothermia after only hours.  These are but a couple of countless examples of human capabilities, which are centered around some kind of belief or spirituality and they don't have the positive rush of dopamine, at least as I see it.  

Other people have gifts of healing or have experienced healings, and these types of things supersede the notion that all belief is tied to dopamine rush...again, IMHO.  

 

Nooo  ....   they don't need to be centred around spirituality at all .     They are  'technologies'  that magic and other things like it can teach you ; psychological,, body mechanics, the psyche , etc   LIke I said before ,,, 'real magic' can teach you those things ... to fulfil your fuller potentials ( that might be hidden ) ,    wanting to 'bend' or warp 'reality' to your will is  a dead end side path.

However, some forms of 'spirituality' can help motivate one to keep at practices , and have values to drive you above what you may already know . 

Anyone for a dip ?

 

 

[Mr Walker]

34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Another member suggested that I create a thread dedicated to what I've learned. So I did. It was good for the first few pages. My ideas were hashed out, refined. Then Walker wrecked it like he always does.

 

Yea terrible to have anyone disagree with an idea. Luckily no one ever does this to my ideas,  

[back to earth]

44 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I will tell you one thing AK. Present your ideas. If they get ripped apart, good. Pick up the pieces and refine them. 

 

Time for a song     

 

I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them fall away.
Mildewed and smoldering. Fundamental differing.
Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes testing our communication
The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so
We cannot seem to reach an end crippling our communication.

I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame, it doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication

The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance.

There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away.
Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing.
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion
between supposed lovers,
between supposed brothers,

- 'Schism'   Tool  .

[back to earth]

42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Seriously I understand . But, then again, have not our types become more and more accepted just in our lifetimes. Culture changes an inch a day. Stay invigorated, my friend!

Oh Papa !  Come on man !  Our culture is much more woo than it ever was !  Its been changing rapidly that way since the end of the 1950s * .... now with 'YouTube Consciousness', it spreading like wildfire  !

 

* and there are significant reasons for that .  

[Aquila King]

[Guyver]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Show me the evidence. That's a you have to do.

Vesna Vulovic. 

Quote

Plus stop with the assumption as to my knowledge of things. 

It's not an assumption about your knowledge of things, it's a fact.  I don't know why you seem to be getting upset over facts?  Non-traditional/faith/spiritual healings are claimed for thousands of years - since you're not thousands of years old and with nearly infinite investigative capabilities.....it's no assumption to state that you haven't investigated them all.  

[+Hammerclaw]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/putting-the-placebo-effect-to-work

[Guyver]

18 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

It is CERTAIN that literally thousands of people die each year due to following the advise of faith healing crackpots who tell them to throw away their medication because they're supposedly 'healed'.

I don't deny that there are other forms of healing out there (even spiritual healing), however medical care is as serious of an issue as they come, and without proper government regulation, there is essentially no way to weed out the genuine spiritual healings vs. the crackpots profiting off the sick and wounded.

Of course.  Charlatans, fakes, phonies and all such things are a fact.  But you just said that you don't deny that other forms of healings exist out there, and that is the entirety of my point.  It only takes one to be real to dismiss the notion that all are fake. 

And no one needs to prove it for it to be real - anymore than the square root of two needs to be proven to be real.  It exists whether people believe it or not, or could give a rip less about it.  

[back to earth]

42 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

420 blaze style of dank fu.

 

Wrong critters  

 

 

[papageorge1]

9 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Oh Papa !  Come on man !  Our culture is much more woo than it ever was !  Its been changing rapidly that way since the end of the 1950s * .... now with 'YouTube Consciousness', it spreading like wildfire  !

 

* and there are significant reasons for that .  

Some people lump too much into the category 'woo'. Some so-called woo is actually true.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Guyver said:

It's not an assumption about your knowledge of things, it's a fact.  I don't know why you seem to be getting upset over facts?  Non-traditional/faith/spiritual healings are claimed for thousands of years - since you're not thousands of years old and with nearly infinite investigative capabilities.....it's no assumption to state that you haven't investigated them all.  

Before we figured out what was going on. The people in those times thought is was helpful spirits.  It's a placebo effect. I'm amazed by it. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Some people lump too much into the category 'woo'. Some so-called woo is actually true.

Show me the evidence.

[back to earth]

20 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Some people lump too much into the category 'woo'. Some so-called woo is actually true.

You totally missed my point !  Even when I bat for you !   

[back to earth]

20 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Before we figured out what was going on. The people in those times thought is was helpful spirits.  It's a placebo effect. I'm amazed by it. 

 

Except  ... 

I have had traditional 'spiritual' shamanic healings .   The ones that worked used what we call 'natural magic' , that is, the healing also involved me taking botanical substances.

And some of  the significant ingredients in those botanical substances have become used in pharmacological medicines