Why is it spirituality vs skepticism?

[Mr Walker]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Well That's just peachy but still doesn't address the comprehension issue which was the point of the post, I guess you just sped read that part.

jmccr8 

 I dont have trouble with comprehension, except, as i think it was you who pointed out, (or someone in this thread?  Humans tend to see what is written through what they are already thinking   I often write stuff which is completely grammatically correct and represents my thoughts and opinions very clearly,  only to have another totally misunderstand what i am saying or arguing because their mind started from  a different point or value. Sometimes i misunderstand another's posts because their world view is totally different to mine and the y were really saying something different to what i thought they were saying.  Works both ways  

[SHaYap]

When in doubt ... always refer to Disney classics ...

~

 

[00.03:23]

~

 

[Mr Walker]

16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

This is quite the deviation from when you first brought up this concept, evolution in progress I guess.

jmccr8 

No  You now are understanding something completely different. It has always been like this in my mind. Perhaps i didn't make it clear but mind reading  and mind to mind communication only worls via language of the mind and if that is not a common language then one cannot transfer words or thus memories etc.

 HOWEVER, again because ALL my thoughts memories etc are verbal not visual i concede that imagery might also be used by others as a form of language.  

[Mr Walker]

7 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

So this is about you? How did that happen?

 

I stated first. " If oyu speak of me"  Your post was  a reponse to my post so who else would you have been addressing it to. 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

 I dont have trouble with comprehension, except, as i think it was you who pointed out, (or someone in this thread?  Humans tend to see what is written through what they are already thinking   I often write stuff which is completely grammatically correct and represents my thoughts and opinions very clearly,  only to have another totally misunderstand what i am saying or arguing because their mind started from  a different point or value. Sometimes i misunderstand another's posts because their world view is totally different to mine and the y were really saying something different to what i thought they were saying.  Works both ways  

Well yes to be perfectly honest it was me, I would think that is would be plainly evident seeing as you quoted me. You in many of your posts say I don't understand or you are mistaken, whereas most of us respond to what you write keeping in mind the flow of conversation and comments made by you previously even if they were made a year ago.

jmccr8 

[Mr Walker]

8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

If it's debatable it can't be proven right either.

jmccr8 

There are enough positive definitions about the nature of religion for it to be heavily weighted to my side. Depends on how and what you categorise as proof I guess, and what standard of proof you demand.  . 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

I stated first. " If oyu speak of me"  Your post was  a reponse to my post so who else would you have been addressing it to. 

I made a comment as a response to a series of comments. You are well aware that I am very direct when making comments specific to your personage and the post referred to was a generality. Please pay attention.

jmccr8 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

There are enough positive definitions about the nature of religion for it to be heavily weighted to my side. Depends on how and what you categorise as proof I guess, and what standard of proof you demand.  . 

Get a grip, debatable means just that unresolved.

jmccr8 

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There are enough positive definitions about the nature of religion for it to be heavily weighted to my side. Depends on how and what you categorise as proof I guess, and what standard of proof you demand.  . 

I am not trying to win anything, theoretically it is a discussion to exchange ideas.

jmccr8 

[jmccr8]

I will say this though you have somehow manage to keep your points short and well short anyway without delving into bomb making or other historic events that have some how been missed in the annals of human history. Things are looking up.

jmccr8 

Edited September 15, 2017 by jmccr8
Auto corrupt/ correct

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Let's move on. 

 

Always a good idea.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

When in doubt ... always refer to Disney classics ...

~

 

[00.03:23]

~

 

I try to tap dance around my doubts.                                                   

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[back to earth]

4 hours ago, rodentraiser said:

I'll concede your point, but the problem comes in when  I have to have a conversation with someone other than yourself over religion.

It's like talking at the United Nations. We use English, but some people don't understand English very well. What they're hearing is an interpretation of someone else's understanding of English. People do OK, but certain words and shades of their meanings get lost.

So you, Will Due, understand English and that's great and we'd have a pretty dandy conversation about religion, but if I have to talk to other people about religion, we're back to the common standard interpretation of what religion is, and the way it's usually understood by the common person is not how you're describing it now. They wouldn't understand what it is I'd be saying.

So if I have to fight those people, I have to fight them in the language they know. If they're throwing arrows at me, I have to throw arrows back. Playing a harmonica and jumping up and down while their arrows are coming at me won't mean a thing to them and might kill me.

I personally think we get reincarnated. A couple years ago I read a question someone asked parents about what was the weirdest thing your kid ever said to you. It was supposed to be funny and it certainly started that way, then it got creepier and creepier. Parent after parent after parent reported their kids said something to them along the lines of "In my other life...". I don't mean just a couple parents and a couple kids - there were hundreds of them. It was sure enough to make you think.

 

 

 A close friend reported this conversation  to me with her  5 year old daughter;

: " I like it here, I don't like the other house. "

"What other house ? "

"The one I used to live in . "

" We have only ever lived in the one house . "

"No, not with you, with other mummy ."

" What other Mummy ? "

{Impatient ) : The  other mummy, the one that was sick, in the big old dark house, it was cold . .... I was always cold ."

" What ? What are you talking about ? "

" My other mummy - before .... its all right, I Like you better , you are a good mommy . "

 

 

[back to earth]

4 hours ago, rodentraiser said:

Well, we know from physics that energy can't be destroyed, so it has to go somewhere. I just want to know where.

 

Thank you!

The class did touch on Freud a little and I had a good teacher, but I learned more from working with the public and training dogs. I think it's one thing to study and watch people and try to figure out why they're doing what they're doing, but it's a whole other thing when your success depends on knowing why they're doing what they're doing. It takes it out of the academic league and makes it a real world problem for sure.

 

I swung more to We Got to Get Out of This Place.

You don't even want to get me started on how people class others according to the work they do, or don't do. Although now it's more like people are classed on how much money they make. Make a million and you are the perfect person. Make minimum wage and you are a second class citizen with no rights - and I did say not to get me started, didn't I? LOL

You know, the one thing I never did worry about was not being unique. Of course, how many other people can you point to who raised mice, showed model horses, owns a telescope, is interested in epidemics, plays with raccoons, builds and decorates dollhouses, and so on and so forth. But I never could see the ground plan - I was always too busy trying field life's punches to see any plan, let alone stick to one.

 

I pressed it anyway on account of that's what I do in life. My mother would tell me not to touch the TV and I'd turn around and slap it right in front of her. It's my nature.

 

George Carlin! You wanna talk about god? George Carlin is god.

 

At lease you get help with the shopping

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I think I finally see what they all meant...

 

Ohhhhh .... its only just beginning .... You will find out .  

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

I made a comment as a response to a series of comments. You are well aware that I am very direct when making comments specific to your personage and the post referred to was a generality. Please pay attention.

jmccr8 

Dont make assumptions. i have no such awareness of the different ways or manner by which you might address me specifically I can only read the context and grammar of a paragraph and work out what the words seem to be saying   i accept that YOU might have that awareness/intent  and believe you write differently for different audiences but i haven't noticed this.   

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Well yes to be perfectly honest it was me, I would think that is would be plainly evident seeing as you quoted me. You in many of your posts say I don't understand or you are mistaken, whereas most of us respond to what you write keeping in mind the flow of conversation and comments made by you previously even if they were made a year ago.

jmccr8 

Sorry but either you never understood the point i was making in the first place or over time you have conflated it and mixed it in with some other conversation about some other point

 I don't change my mind, or my arguments, or my points of view. (unless someone presents a very compelling reason for me to do so, in which case i will state that i have changed my mind)

I get a lot of this "oh a year a go you said such and such"   When we go back to look, I never said any such thing, but this is what people put into their minds that i said and thus it is what the y remember me saying.

 it is not helped when a couple of posters immediately and deliberately rewrite or reinterpret what i said and say  in their  posts ,"  ohh mr walker said this, and this. "  even though i never did.     

One example is how people confuse controlled lucid dreaming and dream construction with projection of consciousness.   I have said consistently that only where verified can one make a claim of projection of consciousness, and that in all other cases one must make the assumption that it is a form of controlled lucid dreaming. Yet many say I have claimed to  be able to know that i have  travelled the universe and can prove it.

 So far i have only been able to verify the accuracy of my projections during the 50s and sixties, out to the moons of the major planets, because we dont have imagery further out than that, but I believe that one day our space craft will locate the features i identified  just outside our solar system, such as a  "star gate" on the elliptical plane,  connecting  our solar system to a galactic wide network of communication and transport for advanced races.     

Edited September 15, 2017 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

I will say this though you have somehow manage to keep your points short and well short anyway without delving into bomb making or other historic events that have some how been missed in the annals of human history. Things are looking up.

jmccr8 

Complex points require complex posts. If i have to i will write longer posts. However, i am having to come to terms that many posters find it difficult to read and follow a post of  just a 1000 words  (20 to 25 lines)  A lot of posts only require  brief opinion or comment  However it is a conscious decision to write shorter posts (so i can respond to more posts)  I read every new post in the two religious sections of the forum and some from other sections  Often there is nothing to argue with or  discuss, but many posters present ideas worth discussing. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Mr Walker

[XenoFish]

7 hours ago, rodentraiser said:

Well, we know from physics that energy can't be destroyed, so it has to go somewhere. I just want to know where.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-chemistry/chapter/the-laws-of-thermodynamics/

The sludge that you will be after the bacteria in your body finish digesting you should go back into the earth as fertilizer, however most people end up in "tupperware" 6 foot under. I'm getting cremated, mixed with potting soil and used to grow a tree. My version of recycling. 

[XenoFish]

5 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I think I finally see what they all meant...

You've entered the Walker Zone. This thread will self destruct in 10 post....9.....8....7.....6......

[LightAngel]

On 10/9/2017 at 2:26 AM, rodentraiser said:

Why can't a person be both spiritual and skeptical?

 

Well, I am.

 

[GlitterRose]

On 9/13/2017 at 9:30 PM, Hammerclaw said:

A requirement. Because it was expected, you couldn't refuse? You had to do it? Tell me, do you still possess of anything from that time of your life, prayer beads, a crucifix a Bible or prayer book, anything? Please don't be mad at me, I really am your friend, just trying, hard, to understand.

Being a kid in my household...there was no refusing anything. It wasn't like today when kids can talk back to their parents. And because my parents were crazy, it was on a next level. 

I have a couple of my Grandmother's trinkets because that's all I have from her. I was promised other keepsakes, but they were sold off by my Dad. Her old rosary and her St. somethingorother medal had no monetary value, so those are what I ended up with.

I don't have anything of mine from that time. I do have a bible around the house, along with all the other religious texts I have floating around. I'm not against having religious texts. I'm against believing them, literally.

[GlitterRose]

2 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

Well, I am.

 

That's the thing, though. Spirituality isn't really studied. It's experienced. It's something people feel. It's not something concrete that can be experimented on. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

18 hours ago, rodentraiser said:

23 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I find your thoughts very interesting. I can't argue how you see him or her indifferent, because as you said, it's you who finds this. I personally think that he or she is looking out for us (me) ((I know, a bit self-centered there, (sorry) )), but I'm saying this from a subjective personal point of view. I think, there are many understandable reasons why we all come to this outlook. I feel, considering how subjective and hardly provable varying religious aspects are, that's all I think it can be. 

I would think, all inputs are cool here.   I personally feel, that when something that hasn't been objectively provable, and it's really a subjective outlook, I don't think explaining it as an objective truth is going to be one hundred percent taken seriously by all. If at the least, I tend to by pass it and go to other stuff. So, I feel your point of view is almost like mine.  

 

I don't think you're self centered at all, but I'd be interested in hearing why you think there's a god looking our for you personally or for all of us in general. In fact, I'd like to find out the whys from everyone here. People always say they have that connection and except for a few people, like someone having a near death experience, for example, no one seems to be able to put a specific reason on that belief.

 

Which leads me to another question for everyone: if we knew for certain what happened after we died, would we even have religion?

 

Ooooh, I love this!!   (Thank you and AK, two recent additions here to stimulate my synapses!   ) 

I think, in a sense, for my point of view here, you touched upon it a bit. I have a feeling, there is a plane of existence that is beyond an explanation, that can't put it in words right now. Well, from what I sense I guess.  

When it came to something, that led me to this path today, I feel I was at a crossroads, and then there was various signs, (from what certain individuals have said on the radio and such) that click inside of me, and had me seeing things that lead me to consider and then feel spiritually, that I think was no coincidence for me. I think, that is how it's done, by personal messages, that is how it can be received so it can be understood. But, that is how I come to feel this way, personally and subjectively. 

And your last question, I love that. I have often asked that myself that question. If we are able to prove it, then it becomes something like the law, or a kingdom with a provable sovereign, and then becomes material, not spiritual. I think you're on the right track. I think it stops becoming a religion, if it's provable and material.  

 

[+Hammerclaw]

In ancient Rome, religions, such as Judaism and Christianity among many others, were known as, Eastern Mystery Cults, as they involved adoration and worship of the unseen and unknown. That was their charm, I think, to a people jaded by their own Polytheism which was, to them, all too apparent and affected. Their gods were just as human as they were, just as flawed. The followers of the many cults sought perfection in the beliefs of other cultures, unattainable in their own. That's the hook of modern religions around the word, the mystery of the unseen, the quest for knowledge of the unknown, to attain a state of grace and perfection not common in this world. It's ironic, in retrospect, but these people, who eschewed worship of the Greco-Roman Gods, were called, atheists.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Hammerclaw