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rodentraiser

Why is it spirituality vs skepticism?

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Sherapy
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

That's the look I get from my wife when I tell her I'm getting my book.

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Hammerclaw
5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Not karma that she died, come on hammer a bit judgy are ye, we all die I agree, but the brutality of her death was her karma for the choices she had made while alive. Meaning she chose the way of fear herself. She didn't need to.

I think she is finally at peace and am glad for us all.

Not judging anyone, just just saying how I's feeling about things and maybe, just a teensy tiny bit, trying to give you another take and another aspect about things, the way you helped me through my crisis. Unfortunately, I don't have your talent for counciling. Now I'll go my melancholy way.

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not judging anyone, just just saying how I's feeling about things and maybe, just a teensy tiny bit, trying to give you another take and another aspect about things, the way you helped me through my crisis. Unfortunately, I don't have your talent for counciling. Now I'll go my melancholy way.

It isn't a matter of forgiveness, or seeing from her perspective, I stayed how much more compassion or empathy could I have given? 

I will answer in her darkest hour I was there that says it all don't you think? 

This is bringing up something in you. Let's talk.

Edited by Sherapy

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rodentraiser
5 hours ago, Will Due said:

I need to explain myself further. When I said you can believe another person's belief in addition to one's very personal and unique beliefs, which are what true religion is, I misspoke (in a way).

When two get together and share each other's beliefs, you can accept what they've told you about their belief, you might even believe everything they told you or just parts. 

I guess what I would like to emphasize is that true religion is your religion, somebody else's religion is the psychology of their religion to you. How you interpret what they tell you they believe. And visa versa.

The term religion needs to be flipped over. Other people's religion, isn't religion at all (to you) because it's theirs. True religion can only be individual. It stops being religion (according to the new definition of the term) when it gets organized between two or more persons.

It's a new approach to everything traditionally thought of as religion. In order to understand you have to throw out everything you previously thought about as religion first, in order to initiate this new way to be religious. 

 

 

I'll concede your point, but the problem comes in when  I have to have a conversation with someone other than yourself over religion.

It's like talking at the United Nations. We use English, but some people don't understand English very well. What they're hearing is an interpretation of someone else's understanding of English. People do OK, but certain words and shades of their meanings get lost.

So you, Will Due, understand English and that's great and we'd have a pretty dandy conversation about religion, but if I have to talk to other people about religion, we're back to the common standard interpretation of what religion is, and the way it's usually understood by the common person is not how you're describing it now. They wouldn't understand what it is I'd be saying.

So if I have to fight those people, I have to fight them in the language they know. If they're throwing arrows at me, I have to throw arrows back. Playing a harmonica and jumping up and down while their arrows are coming at me won't mean a thing to them and might kill me.

5 hours ago, Will Due said:

It's only because of possessing true religion that you can be certain about what happens after you die.

Why do you think so many devoted Christians say they're not certain that they'll go to heaven?

It's because they don't practice real religion, true religion. They think they believe what somebody has told them they should believe, but they don't. Not in actuality. Because believing what somebody else believes is psychology, not religion.

 

 

I personally think we get reincarnated. A couple years ago I read a question someone asked parents about what was the weirdest thing your kid ever said to you. It was supposed to be funny and it certainly started that way, then it got creepier and creepier. Parent after parent after parent reported their kids said something to them along the lines of "In my other life...". I don't mean just a couple parents and a couple kids - there were hundreds of them. It was sure enough to make you think.

 

 

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Mr Walker
12 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

So you have a congegation of followers with a political religious structure and rituals? If not you have a personal belief not a religion.

jmccr8

No.  If you follow your own beliefs, in a codified and systematic fashion maybe with certain ritualistic behaviours based ont hat belef , then you have a religion of one (if no one else is following your beliefs)  Religion is a codified expressions of belief. It is irrelevant how many believers there are.  

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Mr Walker
12 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Oh you know tje ones that can see and interact with your physical god, don't pretend that this is the first time that we and I do mean you and I not to mention sevetal other posters have asked you for validation. Remember how we discussed scientific method which you claimed to have done, you know we spent a couple of months debating that issue that boiled down to realitu checkers and self evaluation which is not scientific method to anyone but you. None of us have changed we are still the same people with the same standard for evidence, are you now willing to provid valid documentation for this physical entity that you call god/angel/alien because I and otjets will still make rewuests for documentation every time you bring him into a thread.

You won't come to the othet thread as invited are you prepared to engage here now that you opened your god door here?

jmccr8

Ok so i answered your question There have been a number of posters on UM who have made the same claim And there are hundreds of millions world wide based on surveys who claim to have encountered a physical manifestation avatar of a god. 

Your memory about scientific method is flawed Our disagreement was that for me scientific method does not require peer reviewed confirmation or validation to prove something (only to be able to share those proofs with others )  It can be accomplished successfully by any one individual,who uses scientific method and evidences

If you are a skeptic then i can't even provide valid documentation that i own a dog, let alone  encounter a god because your skepticism would cloud your belief in any evidences i provided .

SO what? That is not and has never been the issue.  It is not about how i prove something to you it is about how i prove something to myself  I do that by using the same evidences and scientific method for everything. I know god exists using exactly the same proofs evidences and scientific method by which i can be sure my dog exists

If you encountered a real alien one night but could not prove this to anyone else, are you saying that you would accept that  it never really happened or was unreal BECAUSE you have no transferrable evidences or proofs . Are you saying you lack competency to know for yourself when something is real and that you lack the methodologies and skills to prove this to yourself?   

 

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rodentraiser
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Good question. I think it would depend. On what this afterlife really was. Of course some religions will try to claim "We're right!!!". Then again if it's nothing like we could ever fathom would it be a "heaven or hell"? What if there is nothing? If there is nothing then religion is useless. 

Well, we know from physics that energy can't be destroyed, so it has to go somewhere. I just want to know where.

 

5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

You are correct, Psychology is not for everyone. If you took a class in college it probably touched on Freud and you are correct. I think under the umbrella of Psychoanalysis it can be narrow. I think with Attachment Theory and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy it has grown a lot. Of course, for me, therapy gave me tools to find a better way after a brutal childhood.  I loved your thoughts on the subject.

Thank you!

The class did touch on Freud a little and I had a good teacher, but I learned more from working with the public and training dogs. I think it's one thing to study and watch people and try to figure out why they're doing what they're doing, but it's a whole other thing when your success depends on knowing why they're doing what they're doing. It takes it out of the academic league and makes it a real world problem for sure.

 

3 hours ago, back to earth said:

 

I hate that !   As a kid, I did vocational guidance , I  happily  talked about all the things that I wanted to do .....   they told me I would make a good shop assistant    .... wtf ?

What I mean about mapping the psyche is your own psyche  - you do it. Its working out the ground plan ;  not the details  - the details are you, everyone adapts the ground plan differently . There is only one 'you'  , regardless of there being a billionbillion  stars and planets ... just one you, unique and individual. But you are built on a basic plan  -   the map of your psyche.

Anywayz, stuff I am into , might not be your cup of tea .... but it sure has helped a lot of people .

 

I hate that ,  And later in life they will want to idenbtify you by the job you do  :( 

Once I was chatting to these two women at a party and they immediately (2nd question after hello and name exchange )  "And what do you do ?"

I was  so sick of that I said I was male model .  You should have seen the looks I got !    :D 

(ps I do not look like a male model !  :D  )

 

Good Lord !   Its like looking in a mirror  !   :D 

 

 

I swung more to We Got to Get Out of This Place.

You don't even want to get me started on how people class others according to the work they do, or don't do. Although now it's more like people are classed on how much money they make. Make a million and you are the perfect person. Make minimum wage and you are a second class citizen with no rights - and I did say not to get me started, didn't I? LOL

You know, the one thing I never did worry about was not being unique. Of course, how many other people can you point to who raised mice, showed model horses, owns a telescope, is interested in epidemics, plays with raccoons, builds and decorates dollhouses, and so on and so forth. But I never could see the ground plan - I was always too busy trying field life's punches to see any plan, let alone stick to one.

 

3 hours ago, back to earth said:

 

Image result for do not press button

I pressed it anyway on account of that's what I do in life. My mother would tell me not to touch the TV and I'd turn around and slap it right in front of her. It's my nature.

 

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

stupid-people.jpg?w=300

George Carlin! You wanna talk about god? George Carlin is god.

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Mr Walker
12 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Amazing how you have single handedly worked out how a nonexistent technology works my gee wilikers Nasa needs you for their spaced program.:whistle:

jmccr8

The space programme, while fascinating, is old technology and will be superseded by matter transfer and other science within the next century 

Ps i dont know how it works I once spent an hour or so piggybacking on the mind of an alien being who was trying to repair a servo motor miles out from the space ship,  on a thin  line attached to a giant solar sail.

 This was on a light ship in the centre of our galaxy I could observe and record what it was doing but couldnt speak its language  and so could learn very little  about what it was doing, apart from observation and deduction. It was an arachnid form  And it was naked (well actually think it had a light coverall )  except for a  shield generator and tool kit strapped to its "waist "The shield generator must have provided both protection and atmospheres  Using technology is easy You simply approach a star gate or discontinuity and  enter it,  coming out instantly on the other side  This doesnt mean you know the technology behind it, any more than you need to know the technology behind an elevator, in order to ride one.

Darpa other US agencies and some very big european conglomerates are publicly working on such technologies while the chinese will also be, but not publicly  

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Mr Walker
11 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

I have yet to see anyone try to make Will change his belief system and several have openly said they think he is a good person and of what he believes helps him and is not harmful to others great.

You don't challenge anyone's beliefs, we ask you for validation gor many of the opinions that you express and you come under fire for your avoiding and trying to change the subject when burden of proof is required. Will isn't you.

jmccr8

Ask Will how he feels.

I give proofs where proofs are available yet peole refuse to accept even those Of course for many personal experiences there are not transferable proofs However what i find interesting is how common many personal experiences are among humans. Take the cosmic consciousness for example For decades i thought this was a unique personal experience, and then i find it has been shared by others who have also recorded and written about it .  I can and will always justify a personal opinion, based on the values and attitudes which lie beneath the belief itself  Of course others have different values, priorities, attitudes, ethics and moralities  But i can always prove the benefits of mine. 

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Mr Walker
6 hours ago, rodentraiser said:

OK, I understand the similarity between knowing god and marriage. But I don't want to know god. Other people's gods scare the heck out of me because they're so unyielding and mean to their followers. But I have to agree with jmccr8 that in this context, the way you perceive god - OK, let me amend that - I think the way most people see their god is not as a religion, but as a personal belief. It's when all the personal beliefs line up that things get hairy. Which leads us straight to:

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say an individual's perception of god is a personal belief to that individual. The definition of religion is when two or more people who think they have the same personal beliefs get together. The definition of horror is when two or more people in a religion agree that not only are their personal beliefs the same, but that those personal beliefs should be the personal beliefs of everyone else.

And if, as Will says, you can believe in the religions of others, what happens then?

If a religion starts out as a true religion based on love, faith, and service as so many religions do, why does that religion change with the addition of more and more people to that train of personal belief? We see in religion after religion after religion that they start out fine and then end up paying lip service to the ideals they started out with and ended up becoming either a money making organization at the expense of the believers for the benefit of a few people at the top, or they degenerate to violence in order to gain more converts. Many religions do both. And in every religion, the people will still proclaim their personal beliefs which are now totally at odds at how they actually behave and the things they say.

We see this in Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, the FLDS, David Koresh's religion, Scientology, any born again evangelical church, etc, etc, etc.

And this is what I always have to ask: if a religion eventually draws such people into it, is that such a good thing? And further, is it inevitable that any and all religions degenerate to this?

I can go further into the profound here. For instance, you could say human coexists with germs. But you could equally say that the human body is just the germ's method of making another germ. So when it comes to religion, do people with their personal beliefs make a religion? Or do the religions of some good personal beliefs exist so that others with darker beliefs and agendas can eventually find a home for themselves?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will try to answer this by tying together personal connection to god and religious connections to god.

I have one, my wife has the other..

 The point in both is how your knowledge or belief leads you to think and to behave.   Whether your god is personal or mainstream, if it leads you to harm yourself, others, or your world, or limits the potential of any of these things,  then it is not the right god for you. If it gives you strength power joy and peace,   causes you to work towards helping others and the environment, then it Is the right god for for you.

I've answered how i see a religion.

If i act, based on a set of beliefs, with uniformity and coherence, then i am living a religious life, and am religious, even if my religion only consists of me.  

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You do have a point. In some ways it doesn't make sense to debate beliefs, but then again it depends on the belief and the approach to it. Kind of a personal judgment call.

My "beliefs" are based on a set of values along a value line  eg i believe the protection and strength of a society is more important than the rights of an individual Each  value has a rationale behind it eg Without a strong protective society then only strong individuals have individual rights  Thus, to establish the greatest rights for the most people, requires the strongest and most powerful to surrender some of their rights, which the y hold from a position of privilege 

In real life this leads  me to a respect for legitimate authority in a democracy, and to the willing obedience of most laws  However, i also believe that strong  matters of an individual conscience based on moralities  can override  social obligations and society's laws So i would help a loved one die if that was what the y wanted even if this meant disobeying the law.

Thus, to me, it is important to discuss and debate our beliefs because they drive our behaviours and explain our personal and social behaviours

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jmccr8
46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No.  If you follow your own beliefs, in a codified and systematic fashion maybe with certain ritualistic behaviours based ont hat belef , then you have a religion of one (if no one else is following your beliefs)  Religion is a codified expressions of belief. It is irrelevant how many believers there are.  

Religion is an institution that is recognized by society and has tax exemptions so no, what you believe without being associated with an organized and structured institution is a personal belief and not a religion of one.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, Aquila King said:

You simply don't believe it to be true, and that's more than enough reason to reject it right there. ;)

Yes, I understand why people find comfort in believing in an afterlife, that's only natural. But to need to believe it in order to cope... That once again goes back to willfully lying to yourself which makes no sense at all. I probably derive a greater deal of comfort in death due to my belief in the afterlife, yes, but that comfort comes from the fact that I genuinely believe it to be true. Not just cause I want it to be. I know some will disagree with me here and insist that I am just wanting it to be true and that that's why I believe it. But they don't know me, and anyone who does know me knows that that's just not who I am.

I can't stand dishonesty, period. It's one of those things I have a special reason to detest. I can't lie to myself and say it's true just so it gives me comfort. Because in all honesty, it wouldn't give me any comfort if I knew it to be a lie.

They whole concept of forcing oneself to believe something is just beyond me. I seriously doubt sometimes that it's even possible... I know it is for me anyway...

If one does not, and cannot, know if an after life exists or not,  then how can believing in one be a knowing lie?  

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Mr Walker
9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Religion is an institution that is recognized by society and has tax exemptions so no, what you believe without being associated with an organized and structured institution is a personal belief and not a religion of one.

jmccr8

Who gave you  that definition?   A Religion is a set of, belief based,  codified laws and behaviours.  Usually it is followed by more than one, but it does not have to be . A religion of one is the same as a religion  of 2 or of ten or a million.  Its nature makes it a religion, not its numbers  

Oxford english dictionary definition of religion 

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Perfectly achievable by an individual The worship is the part where a person alters their behaviour to please a god or make some connection to a god.  If you don't alter your behaviour,  and don't outwardly worship, then you may not be religious even if you claim to believe.    Tax exemption and the like is irrelevant Many countries give no tax exemptions  to any religions, while others, only to certain recognised ones. 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

It isn't a matter of forgiveness, or seeing from her perspective, I stayed how much more compassion or empathy could I have given? 

I will answer in her darkest hour I was there that says it all don't you think? 

This is bringing up something in you. Let's talk.

Never said it was and I was contrasting my perspective with yours. You did the best you could under difficult and trying circumstances. All the while you were having to deal with the inner turmoil of disillusionment and shattered preconceptions on a very personal level. It hurt you and the cut was deep and you had to endure the mental anguish for so long until her death. 

Edited by Hammerclaw

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Arbenol said:

You should have just replied "yes".

BTW I've just finished the third season of "Vikings". Really enjoying it.

I better go before you get accused of more derailment.

Not on this thread :) I felt entirely safe after the half dozen pages of extraneous posting :)     

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jmccr8
38 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok so i answered your question There have been a number of posters on UM who have made the same claim And there are hundreds of millions world wide based on surveys who claim to have encountered a physical manifestation avatar of a god.

What you have said in other threads is that other people have seen and interacted with YOUR entity and that is what I am asking you to provide as an answer, you are playing the duck here and I am well aware of how you detract.

40 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Your memory about scientific method is flawed Our disagreement was that for me scientific method does not require peer reviewed confirmation or validation to prove something (only to be able to share those proofs with others )  It can be accomplished successfully by any one individual,who uses scientific method and evidences

I don't think so, when you present  a statement that you have used scientific method and you are stating it to others( not yourself) then there is a requisit to show through documentation the criteria that was used. I am not the only one that has made this clear to you, and if you are only interested in proving it to yourself then you should word your comments accordingly.

45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

If you are a skeptic then i can't even provide valid documentation that i own a dog, let alone  encounter a god because your skepticism would cloud your belief in any evidences i provided

Yes I am a skeptic and I do accept proper documentation for supporting a claim, especially when it is an extraordinary claim like many of yours and if you can't support your claim then it is an opinion, which is okay for idle chit chat but pointless in a fact discussion.

49 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

If you encountered a real alien one night but could not prove this to anyone else, are you saying that you would accept that  it never really happened or was unreal BECAUSE you have no transferrable evidences or proofs . Are you saying you lack competency to know for yourself when something is real and that you lack the methodologies and skills to prove this to yourself?

You would be about as alien as I have come across to date but that doesn't classify you as otherworldly in my mind. Actually I am quite analytical which is why I cross-examine you and ask for validation of your methodology. Something that you have failed/refused to produce, one can only question the validity of why you post what you do without doing what you have asked me.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The space programme, while fascinating, is old technology and will be superseded by matter transfer and other science within the next century 

Ps i dont know how it works I once spent an hour or so piggybacking on the mind of an alien being who was trying to repair a servo motor miles out from the space ship,  on a thin  line attached to a giant solar sail.

 This was on a light ship in the centre of our galaxy I could observe and record what it was doing but couldnt speak its language  and so could learn very little  about what it was doing, apart from observation and deduction. It was an arachnid form  And it was naked (well actually think it had a light coverall )  except for a  shield generator and tool kit strapped to its "waist "The shield generator must have provided both protection and atmospheres  Using technology is easy You simply approach a star gate or discontinuity and  enter it,  coming out instantly on the other side  This doesnt mean you know the technology behind it, any more than you need to know the technology behind an elevator, in order to ride one.

Darpa other US agencies and some very big european conglomerates are publicly working on such technologies while the chinese will also be, but not publicly  

Notice the use of the word spaced, it is not quite the same as space, probably my fault for using a meme word my apologies I forgot that you have trouble understanding memes.As for the rest of your post, really and arachnid with a waist :w00t: and you mind melded and couldn't understand his language.:unsure::whistle::w00t: The spaced is strong in this one grasshopper.:rolleyes:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
50 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ask Will how he feels.

I give proofs where proofs are available yet peole refuse to accept even those Of course for many personal experiences there are not transferable proofs However what i find interesting is how common many personal experiences are among humans. Take the cosmic consciousness for example For decades i thought this was a unique personal experience, and then i find it has been shared by others who have also recorded and written about it .  I can and will always justify a personal opinion, based on the values and attitudes which lie beneath the belief itself  Of course others have different values, priorities, attitudes, ethics and moralities  But i can always prove the benefits of mine. 

I think Will has been quite open about how he feels and what he thinks,most of us accept that and appreciate his honestly, do I believe in the Urantia Book , no but that doesn't diminish the fact that I think that he is a good man and welcome here as a member, he does have some good ideas that are valid.

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
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Mr Walker
Just now, jmccr8 said:

What you have said in other threads is that other people have seen and interacted with YOUR entity and that is what I am asking you to provide as an answer, you are playing the duck here and I am well aware of how you detract.

I don't think so, when you present  a statement that you have used scientific method and you are stating it to others( not yourself) then there is a requisit to show through documentation the criteria that was used. I am not the only one that has made this clear to you, and if you are only interested in proving it to yourself then you should word your comments accordingly.

Yes I am a skeptic and I do accept proper documentation for supporting a claim, especially when it is an extraordinary claim like many of yours and if you can't support your claim then it is an opinion, which is okay for idle chit chat but pointless in a fact discussion.

You would be about as alien as I have come across to date but that doesn't classify you as otherworldly in my mind. Actually I am quite analytical which is why I cross-examine you and ask for validation of your methodology. Something that you have failed/refused to produce, one can only question the validity of why you post what you do without doing what you have asked me.

jmccr8

If you have understood this then I have not communicated well It is my opinion based on my contact with the cosmic consciousness that there is one universal consciousness  And that all contacts which are not imagined are with this entity The evidences come from the writings of many people who describe shared common and even identical experiences  . All religious and spiritual experiences which are not just constructs of the mind, but involve interaction with a real being are with THIS being  Humans then interpret tha t contact using the science, technologies, and world views available to them

No there is no requirement for me to prove to you that something is real to me. There IS however a requirement that when i claim something to be real i have examined its reality using scientific method and evidences. What YOU or others then chose to believe is up to you.

I do not have to prove to you what i KNOW to be true, but i do owe it to you to explain how i ascertained its reality  (with god i ascertain its physical reality using the same tests i use to determine the physical existence and reality of ANYTHING in my environment so i can be as sure that such a fod is real as i can be that my wife or my dog is real) No more no less.     Again your acceptance of this is up to you.

It is opinion to you but fact to me and so i am entitled to present it as a fact which i have proven to be true   to myself   I do not find it  an extraordinary claim at all of course because god is just as ordinary as anything else . But scientifically, the same levels of proof are required for all claims There is no requirement of a greater standard of proof for unusual claims  

You have not answered my last question, which is intriguing. Does this mean you feel you could not independently validate the existence of an alien being, if you encountered one, while alone?  How about a wombat or a goanna?  How do you know the rock on the road ahead of you is real? 

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Aquila King
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Here you go.:tu:

The only problem with that movie was Jaden Smith.

The only problem with that movie was that it was made.

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Sherapy
43 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Never said it was and I was contrasting my perspective with yours. You did the best you could under difficult and trying circumstances. All the while you were having to deal with the inner turmoil of disillusionment and shattered preconceptions on a very personal level. It hurt you and the cut was deep and you had to endure the mental anguish for so long until her death. 

Let's move on. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker
8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Notice the use of the word spaced, it is not quite the same as space, probably my fault for using a meme word my apologies I forgot that you have trouble understanding memes.As for the rest of your post, really and arachnid with a waist :w00t: and you mind melded and couldn't understand his language.:unsure::whistle::w00t: The spaced is strong in this one grasshopper.:rolleyes:

jmccr8

I assumed it was  a typo.  And you are correct i have no familiarity with menes, nor any desire to become familiar. In another context i might have assumed it was a sarcastic reference to nasa 

When you meld with another consciousness, of course you cant speak the language of their mind, unless they speak one of your languages, or you speak one of theirs

I couldn't link minds with a russian and understand their thoughts, let alone an alien being. 

You can see through their eyes and feel through their senses,  which allows for some contextual understanding. 

Current technology is developing the ability to read minds and transfer thoughts but it requires computer encoding to interpret . This is even more so when  trying to communicate with a mind which thinks in another language.

Roll on the universal translator   I can only think i english so I can only understand linguistic based thoughts in english.

If i could see visual images I might be able to communicate on a visual basis. 

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jmccr8
38 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Who gave you  that definition?   A Religion is a set of, belief based,  codified laws and behaviours.  Usually it is followed by more than one, but it does not have to be . A religion of one is the same as a religion  of 2 or of ten or a million.  Its nature makes it a religion, not its numbers  

Oxford english dictionary definition of religion 

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Perfectly achievable by an individual The worship is the part where a person alters their behaviour to please a god or make some connection to a god.  If you don't alter your behaviour,  and don't outwardly worship, then you may not be religious even if you claim to believe.    Tax exemption and the like is irrelevant Many countries give no tax exemptions  to any religions, while others, only to certain recognised ones. 

 

I shave religiously because it is a ritual.

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/definitions.pdf

http://www.gla.ac.uk/0t4/humanities/files/mindmapping/Religion1_files/docs/Pragmatics.pdf

http://www2.tf.jcu.cz/~klapetek/religion.pdf

http://www.anpere.net/2007/2.pdf

jmccr8

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jmccr8
15 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

If you have understood this then I have not communicated well It is my opinion based on my contact with the cosmic consciousness that there is one universal consciousness  And that all contacts which are not imagined are with this entity The evidences come from the writings of many people who describe shared common and even identical experiences  . All religious and spiritual experiences which are not just constructs of the mind, but involve interaction with a real being are with THIS being  Humans then interpret tha t contact using the science, technologies, and world views available to them

No there is no requirement for me to prove to you that something is real to me. There IS however a requirement that when i claim something to be real i have examined its reality using scientific method and evidences. What YOU or others then chose to believe is up to you.

I do not have to prove to you what i KNOW to be true, but i do owe it to you to explain how i ascertained its reality  (with god i ascertain its physical reality using the same tests i use to determine the physical existence and reality of ANYTHING in my environment so i can be as sure that such a fod is real as i can be that my wife or my dog is real) No more no less.     Again your acceptance of this is up to you.

It is opinion to you but fact to me and so i am entitled to present it as a fact which i have proven to be true   to myself   I do not find it  an extraordinary claim at all of course because god is just as ordinary as anything else . But scientifically, the same levels of proof are required for all claims There is no requirement of a greater standard of proof for unusual claims  

You have not answered my last question, which is intriguing. Does this mean you feel you could not independently validate the existence of an alien being, if you encountered one, while alone?  How about a wombat or a goanna?  How do you know the rock on the road ahead of you is real? 

Wobble wobble wobble, we have gone down this path before and you still insist that you are only telling us this because you need to affirm reality to yourself, okay you succeeded in proving it to yourself why expect validation form us you know that we expect to see documentation other than that it's fiction and not worth discussing maybe put in the story telling threads.

The world I walk in every day is real and yes I do know when I'm dreaming or fantasizing and really don't have an overwhelming need for reality checkers unless I am tanked.

jmccr8

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