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rodentraiser

Why is it spirituality vs skepticism?

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XenoFish
28 minutes ago, mindpurge said:

Its funny you know... I could see myself having a conversation with you, probably a fairly deep, intellectual conversation. But I know, without a doubt, at the end - I'd be walking away shaking my head saying to myself, "I think I just spoke to one of the stupidest person ever."

I don't mean this as an insult, I'm not saying you are stupid in everyday business. But I am saying this because you refuse to research anything you don't believe in. You don't see it as a possibility so you won't bother looking into it.

There's a reason why people believe, there's a reason why I believe, you don't have a reason to believe... yet... however if you did some research, and I don't mean a google search, I mean read some books written by respected doctors, scientists & specialists (I won't name these people at this time, they should be fairly easy to look up).

The reason for me to believe isn't emotional whatsoever, although I have indeed found peace in it, it's simply a matter of logic & research. Non-believers say there is no evidence, but I refute that, and tell you there is evidence, much more than you could even possibly imagine. Lets be clear, I'm not talking religion here, religion is simply man's interpretation of God, but man doesn't even know what God is, if God is even a singularity.

Simply not believing because of a lack of proof on YOUR part, from YOUR research, doesn't qualify as non-existence in all-dimensional reality.

I find this post highly insulting to my intelligence. I mean it's almost Mr.Walker low. So you make a post basically calling me an idiot because you assume I have no clue what I'm talking about. The pompous arrogance of this post is one of the reason I left religion, it generate an attitude of superiority where anyone who doesn't believe the same as you is a damn fool. The evidence to validate your belief is all psychological, nothing more than a magical placebo effect. With that said I might add you to my ignore list, as I can see there can be nothing worth while for conversing with someone such as yourself. 

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Aquila King
31 minutes ago, mindpurge said:

Its funny you know... I could see myself having a conversation with you, probably a fairly deep, intellectual conversation. But I know, without a doubt, at the end - I'd be walking away shaking my head saying to myself, "I think I just spoke to one of the stupidest person ever."

I don't mean this as an insult, I'm not saying you are stupid in everyday business. But I am saying this because you refuse to research anything you don't believe in. You don't see it as a possibility so you won't bother looking into it.

There's a reason why people believe, there's a reason why I believe, you don't have a reason to believe... yet... however if you did some research, and I don't mean a google search, I mean read some books written by respected doctors, scientists & specialists (I won't name these people at this time, they should be fairly easy to look up).

The reason for me to believe isn't emotional whatsoever, although I have indeed found peace in it, it's simply a matter of logic & research. Non-believers say there is no evidence, but I refute that, and tell you there is evidence, much more than you could even possibly imagine. Lets be clear, I'm not talking religion here, religion is simply man's interpretation of God, but man doesn't even know what God is, if God is even a singularity.

Simply not believing because of a lack of proof on YOUR part, from YOUR research, doesn't qualify as non-existence in all-dimensional reality.

I don't think Xeno hasn't looked into it necessarily (considering he's admitted to being an ardent believer in the paranormal for decades before now), I just personally think he's had some sort of negative results from it (which does definitely happen quite a bit) and from that it likely led him into a much more skeptical worldview.

I do typically agree though with the above passage otherwise, and think it describes a number of people pretty much perfectly. :tu: Just in this particular case, I don't think it fits Xeno.

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Aquila King
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I find this post highly insulting to my intelligence. I mean it's almost Mr.Walker low. So you make a post basically calling me an idiot because you assume I have no clue what I'm talking about. The pompous arrogance of this post is one of the reason I left religion, it generate an attitude of superiority where anyone who doesn't believe the same as you is a damn fool. The evidence to validate your belief is all psychological, nothing more than a magical placebo effect. With that said I might add you to my ignore list, as I can see there can be nothing worth while for conversing with someone such as yourself. 

Woah, calm down man. I think he may have been a bit quick to judge. That's for sure.

Though I think if he got to know ya a little better he'd realize you don't fit that description.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

I don't think Xeno hasn't looked into it necessarily (considering he's admitted to being an ardent believer in the paranormal for decades before now), I just personally think he's had some sort of negative results from it (which does definitely happen quite a bit) and from that it likely led him into a much more skeptical worldview.

I do typically agree though with the above passage otherwise, and think it describes a number of people pretty much perfectly. :tu: Just in this particular case, I don't think it fits Xeno.

Incorrect. I had a lot of positive results from it. However I ventured out of a strict set of spiritual beliefs and looked for actual answers. To the how and why it worked. What I learned was that it was psychological. Yes their are benefits, but there is a line between fantasy and realty. Getting caught up in fantasy can ruin your reality. Why do you think I have such an interest in the placebo effect and the subconscious? Why do I believe in the power of an idea, because I've experience it. Skepticism is about questioning everything and following what is. Not what you want it to be. It's emotionally painful at times, but the band-aids got to come off at some point. 

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XenoFish
Just now, Aquila King said:

Woah, calm down man. I think he may have been a bit quick to judge. That's for sure.

Though I think if he got to know ya a little better he'd realize you don't fit that description.

I really don't care anymore. This approach to my person is becoming almost common place among those who do not have the slightest idea to what I've done. Without even asking they assume they know me. It's really tiring dealing with such ignorance. 

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Will Do
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I really don't care anymore. This approach to my person is becoming almost common place among those who do not have the slightest idea to what I've done. Without even asking they assume they know me. It's really tiring dealing with such ignorance. 

But you know them, everyone, right Fish?

 

 

 

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XenoFish
Just now, Will Due said:

But you know them, everyone, right Fish?

 

 

 

You're doing that damn riddle thing again. Say it plainly. I haven't got the patience for this tonight.

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Aquila King
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Incorrect. I had a lot of positive results from it. However I ventured out of a strict set of spiritual beliefs and looked for actual answers. To the how and why it worked. What I learned was that it was psychological. Yes their are benefits, but there is a line between fantasy and realty. Getting caught up in fantasy can ruin your reality. Why do you think I have such an interest in the placebo effect and the subconscious? Why do I believe in the power of an idea, because I've experience it. Skepticism is about questioning everything and following what is. Not what you want it to be. It's emotionally painful at times, but the band-aids got to come off at some point. 

Well, at this point you already know I disagree (with the exception of the bold, with that I couldn't agree more). But I'm cool with that. :tu:

I've walked both the Christian path, and the Atheist path, and now I walk my own path. Whatever the reason for any of us, as long as we as you say: "venture out of strict dogmatic beliefs and look for actual answers", I think we'll all become better people because of it. ^_^

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

You're doing that damn riddle thing again. Say it plainly. I haven't got the patience for this tonight.

Yeah, idk what's up wit dat lately. :huh:

Will Due, speak English... ENG-LISH, English!!

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Well, at this point you already know I disagree (with the exception of the bold, with that I couldn't agree more). But I'm cool with that. :tu:

I've walked both the Christian path, and the Atheist path, and now I walk my own path. Whatever the reason for any of us, as long as we as you say: "venture out of strict dogmatic beliefs and look for actual answers", I think we'll all become better people because of it. ^_^

I've walked to occult path for the majority of my life, did a stint in Christianity (didn't like it) and went back to occultism, then I started researching it. Got a lot of real answers. Answers that few agree with. But what the F do I care. I don't even care if any type of God exist. Do whatever the hell you want. If you(not direct directly at you Aquila) get butthurt because I don't agree that is on you not me. 

Edited by XenoFish
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Carnoferox
2 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Yeah, idk what's up wit dat lately. :huh:

Will Due, speak English... ENG-LISH, English!!

Like I said, it's terminal BS pseudo-philosophizing. This debilitating condition reduces the sufferer's speech to nonsensical babbling. 

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

If you get butthurt because I don't agree that is on you not me. 

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not, so talk on my man. ;)

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Will Do
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You're doing that damn riddle thing again. Say it plainly. I haven't got the patience for this tonight.

You claim that you're being insulted by people because they don't know you, don't know what makes you tick.

But towards those same people you do the same thing.

You insult people as if you know them, but don't. You don't know what makes them tick. And over and over again, you make it plain that you don't care.

 

 

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Aquila King
2 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

Like I said, it's terminal BS pseudo-philosophizing. This debilitating condition reduces the sufferer's speech to nonsensical babbling. 

quote-nonsense-is-so-good-only-because-c

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

You claim that you're being insulted by people because they don't know you, don't know what makes you tick.

But towards those same people you do the same thing.

You insult people as if you know them, but don't. You don't know what makes them tick. And over and over again, you make it plain that you don't care.

 

 

Call me a masochist, but I actually find his generalized apathy quite amusing. :D

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

You claim that you're being insulted by people because they don't know you, don't know what makes you tick.

But towards those same people you do the same thing.

You insult people as if you know them, but don't. You don't know what makes them tick. And over and over again, you make it plain that you don't care.

 

 

If I insult someone I do it directly. Having an opinion about someone's beliefs isn't an insult. I think your beliefs are as irrational as they come, that's not a reflection of your person, it's an opinion on your beliefs. Get that straight and we'll have fewer issues.

5 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Call me a masochist, but I actually find his generalized apathy quite amusing. :D

It's called being disconnected. I don't wager much emotions into my post anymore. Past few weeks on UM have taught me well about that. 

Edited by XenoFish

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Will Do
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If I insult someone I do it directly. Having an opinion about someone's beliefs isn't an insult. I think your beliefs are as irrational as they come, that's not a reflection of your person, it's an opinion on your beliefs. Get that straight and we'll have fewer issues.

It's called being disconnected. I don't wager much emotions into my post anymore. Past few weeks on UM have taught me well about that. 

I care, that's my issue. 

Of course, you have an issue with that.

 

 

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

If I insult someone I do it directly. Having an opinion about someone's beliefs isn't an insult. I think your beliefs are as irrational as they come, that not a reflection of your person, it's an opinion on your beliefs. Get that straight and we'll have fewer issues.

The unfortunate catch 22 is that a person's beliefs ultimately shape their identity, therefore an attack on their beliefs is in a sense a personal attack. :hmm: And yet despite this, they still need to be challenged.

Sad to say, there's no real way around this dilemma, really.

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Will Do
1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

The unfortunate catch 22 is that a person's beliefs ultimately shape their identity, therefore an attack on their beliefs is in a sense a personal attack. :hmm: And yet despite this, they still need to be challenged.

And visa versa.

 

 

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XenoFish
Just now, Will Due said:

I care, that's my issue. 

Of course, you have an issue with that.

 

 

There is only an issue because you are making one. I do not care. I've said it so many damn times that I've lost count. I do not care what people want to believe, I care what they do with their beliefs. If they do no harm then I'm fine with it. If they do harm I'm going to speak up about it. Spiritual beliefs are irrational in nature, because the believer over rationalizes something to the point of absurdity. Which is why I call it fantasy. 

 

1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

The unfortunate catch 22 is that a person's beliefs ultimately shape their identity, therefore an attack on their beliefs is in a sense a personal attack. :hmm: And yet despite this, they still need to be challenged.

Sad to say, there's no real way around this dilemma, really.

Brutal honesty and an actually open mind. That's the thing about being a skeptic, you look for answers even if they do not agree with your beliefs. 

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XenoFish

Beliefs should be like underwear, changed often. Never accepted as facts. Because facts support themselves.

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Aquila King
6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I care, that's my issue. 

Of course, you have an issue with that.

SPEAK IN G** D*** ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!

Dhdxqml.gif

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Aquila King
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Because facts support themselves.

Yes, and yet millions, no, billions still disagree... :hmm:

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Will Do
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I do not care what people want to believe, I care what they do with their beliefs. If they do no harm then I'm fine with it. If they do harm I'm going to speak up about it.

Fish, I care, and I'm going to speak about how you are a hypocrite. You get your panties in such a wad because somebody has "harmed" you, when perhaps you just don't care about what they're doing which isn't being harmful at all.

But you do harm with purposeful intent don't you.

 

 

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XenoFish

Beliefs are the subjective filter in which we view our lives through. If you believe that the medicine the doctor prescribed will aid you, then you will engage the placebo effect + whatever the medicines effect is. This will yield a positive effect. I know that "energy healing" works, because it's done through the placebo effect, via suggestion and actions (laying on of hands). The effect of such is equal only the belief of the person who wants it to work. There is nothing mystical or psychic about it, just psychological. 

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