State of the European Union

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

1 hour ago, Black Monk said:

No, it isn't.

 

 

You believe that Britain is the greatest democracy, but I am sure you will find others who will argue that their country is the greatest democracy. Unless you have some metric to joudge it on it is bound to be personal opinion.

[stevewinn]

19 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You believe that Britain is the greatest democracy, but I am sure you will find others who will argue that their country is the greatest democracy. Unless you have some metric to joudge it on it is bound to be personal opinion.

What did you make of the speech, the State of the Union by Jean Claude Juncker? especially if the path is followed you'd lose your currency and join the Euro. as it stood before Brexit the UK and Denmark were going to be the only two countries in the Union by 2020 retaining their own currency. Now, Denmark will be alone in that, would you happily ditch the Krone and join the Euro? its one thing pegging it (ERM II)  but to actually ditch is another.

Will you be happy that the countries represented by the Council of ministers will be morphed into the one single Presidency? i note within minutes of the speech ending your politicians took to twitter to pour cold water on the ambition.

 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

What did you make of the speech, the State of the Union by Jean Claude Juncker? especially if the path is followed you'd lose your currency and join the Euro. as it stood before Brexit the UK and Denmark were going to be the only two countries in the Union by 2020 retaining their own currency. Now, Denmark will be alone in that, would you happily ditch the Krone and join the Euro? its one thing pegging it (ERM II)  but to actually ditch is another.

Will you be happy that the countries represented by the Council of ministers will be morphed into the one single Presidency? i note within minutes of the speech ending your politicians took to twitter to pour cold water on the ambition.

 

We can't join the Euro without a referendum. We had that referendum and it was rejected. Juncker have no say in that matter. If we join the Euro it would be because a majority of the country wants that and since that is not the case it is a hyphotetical discussion for now.

[stevewinn]

7 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

We can't join the Euro without a referendum. We had that referendum and it was rejected. Juncker have no say in that matter. If we join the Euro it would be because a majority of the country wants that and since that is not the case it is a hyphotetical discussion for now.

Let me expand I did point out that Denmark will be the only country within the EU that will retain its own currency. it was going to be both the UK and Denmark in that regard. But when the time eventually arrives When 26 out of the 27 members are using the Euro how long do you think it would be before the pressure on Denmark becomes to great and the issue forced. - Even keeping the Krone your pegged to the Euro via the ERM mechanism, the decisions made on the Euro will have consequences for your Government/ treasury. 

Would you personally be happy to ditch the Krone and join the Euro?

Would you be happy for the EU to have a single Presidency and central finance minister, who'll set interest rates and taxes in the member states who use the € currency?

Edited September 17, 2017 by stevewinn

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, Black Monk said:

The Government are doing exactly what the people voted for democratically - getting us out of the EUSSR. That's democracy at its best.

The government is doing what 52% of those who voted wanted from the 2016 referendum. Only 72% of the electorate actually turned out to vote at all - 28% didn't bother. Those 52% only represent 37% of the total electorate.

In the year since the referendum 11 of the 13 polls taken of the British people have shown a majority in favour of remain. 

And who are the Brexiteers? A small but very influential minority are well-educated establishment middle-Englanders. The rest are drawn from that section of the British population who are poorly educated but are suffering economic hardship and whose opinions are easily manipuled by the press.

Look at Boris. A former Conservative press hack who was one of the first to promote and run a self-serving anti-EU press campaign, who regularly made up untrue anti-EU copy, and was fired by The Times for inventing stories. This guy is a bumbling idiot who only this week perpetrated the lie that Britain will have £350,000,000 per week to spend when it leaves the EU! As a fool who plays to the Little Englander gallery he reflects very badly on Britain in his role as Foreign Minister.

The Union Jack wavers here only ever quote and reference the Telegraph, the Mail and the Express. Talk about confirmation bias. It's even worse than that. These papers are their educational textbooks.

'Democracy at its best' - yeah, right!

[keithisco]

7 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

The government is doing what 52% of those who voted wanted from the 2016 referendum. Only 72% of the electorate actually turned out to vote at all - 28% didn't bother. Those 52% only represent 37% of the total electorate.

In the year since the referendum 11 of the 13 polls taken of the British people have shown a majority in favour of remain. 

And who are the Brexiteers? A small but very influential minority are well-educated establishment middle-Englanders. The rest are drawn from that section of the British population who are poorly educated but are suffering economic hardship and whose opinions are easily manipuled by the press.

Look at Boris. A former Conservative press hack who was one of the first to promote and run a self-serving anti-EU press campaign, who regularly made up untrue anti-EU copy, and was fired by The Times for inventing stories. This guy is a bumbling idiot who only this week perpetrated the lie that Britain will have £350,000,000 per week to spend when it leaves the EU! As a fool who plays to the Little Englander gallery he reflects very badly on Britain in his role as Foreign Minister.

The Union Jack wavers here only ever quote and reference the Telegraph, the Mail and the Express. Talk about confirmation bias. It's even worse than that. These papers are their educational textbooks.

'Democracy at its best' - yeah, right!

You clearly do not understand Democracy at all... every enfranchised adult had the absolute right to vote in the referendum (and lets not forget the additional I MILLION good people of Cyprus, malta and Ireland resident in the UK whose very pro EU votes still did not change the result). Those who do not vote are irrelevant because they really weren't bothered either way.

You have also fallen into the well-established, yet unprovable belief that Remoaners tended to have a higher standard of education...this is actually a fallacy entirely predicated on an opinion poll held after the referendum which did not, and never did, have sufficient authoritative weighting for it to be valid.

I have no doubt that many Graduates of entirely laudable lower degrees in "David Beckham Studies (a real course)", Liberal Arts", "Sociology", "Art History"  etc etc did indeed vote Remain, but unfortunately Alumni of such courses hardly deserve the label of "better educated". Looking at the Sciences, and Engineering graduates-my own cohort of peers - I can unequivocally tell you that I have yet to find a single one who actually voted to Remain, yet they all voted. Curious isnt it? 

Indeed, most of my peers do not get the time to read newspapers because they are busy earning valuable export income for this country by selling their knowledge on the world market whilst the "Beckham Graduates" spend most of their life wanting something for nothing, not working at all, and basically sponging off of the state or the bank of Mum and Dad.

I'll warrant that the Leave voters were actually far better informed on the topics surrounding the referendum than their "Beckham Graduates" counterparts who, to be blunt, in most forum that I visit really do seem to be a little on the "thick" side...IMO

[ExpandMyMind]

2 hours ago, Black Monk said:

And when that happens we can kick them out and elect a new government.

No we can't, and no we don't. Tony Blair spent a decade doing the opposite of what he was elected to do and the people were impotent.

[stevewinn]

8 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

No we can't, and no we don't. Tony Blair spent a decade doing the opposite of what he was elected to do and the people were impotent.

Erm i think you'll find we do.

Something is going wrong here, people seem to be of the thinking if the vote doesn't go their way then it shouldn't count, We've had the Irish lad above and @ExpandMyMind on more than one occasion saying the same thing. - is this a social media phenomenon, the echo-chamber effect?

[stevewinn]

Needs no introduction. Dennis Skinner: Labour MP. and safe to say Anti-Tory.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Erm i think you'll find we do.

Something is going wrong here, people seem to be of the thinking if the vote doesn't go their way then it shouldn't count, We've had the Irish lad above and @ExpandMyMind on more than one occasion saying the same thing. - is this a social media phenomenon, the echo-chamber effect?

What you on about? I'm not talking about a 'vote not going "my" way'. I'm talking about the fact that politicians don't actually represent us. We elect them because they promise so-and-so, then go on to either forget the promises or implement the exact opposite. It's absolutely 100% pseudo democracy. The EU referendum (and subsequently Brexit) is one of the only promises I remember a politician keep, and even then that's only due to the backlash May would have received.

I'm actually surprised that you would argue this point.

[Ozymandias]

1 hour ago, keithisco said:

You clearly do not understand Democracy at all... ... ..IMO

As your parting acronym says, that is your opinion. Boris Johnson, despite his education, or maybe because of it,  also has an opinion that allows him to invent and promote lies about the EU and continue an already discredited claim that Britain will have £350 million a week to spend by coming out of Europe. Actually, it would appear that a Little Englander mentality must be driven more by emotion than education.

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Erm i think you'll find we do.

Something is going wrong here, people seem to be of the thinking if the vote doesn't go their way then it shouldn't count, We've had the Irish lad above and @ExpandMyMind on more than one occasion saying the same thing. - is this a social media phenomenon, the echo-chamber effect?

Wrong again. Your 'Irish lad' is 64 years old! Of course the vote counts but why do Brexiteers misrepresent the EU all the time? And Juncker's speech is not a diktat. Just 25 suggestions as to where the EU might go in the future. None of it can be imposed. The EU has been a force for good in Europe, not some evil empire. You need to better educate yourself about the matter.

[bee]

11 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

What you on about? I'm not talking about a 'vote not going "my" way'. I'm talking about the fact that politicians don't actually represent us. We elect them because they promise so-and-so, then go on to either forget the promises or implement the exact opposite. It's absolutely 100% pseudo democracy. The EU referendum (and subsequently Brexit) is one of the only promises I remember a politician keep, and even then that's only due to the backlash May would have received.

I'm actually surprised that you would argue this point.

If individual nations have problems with politicians actually representing them - imagine that problem magnified to the nth degree
with the EU -- the larger the organization the less power and representation individuals have - 

sounds like you should have voted to leave if you are concerned about healthy representative democracy -
 

[Black Monk]

Blood stirring Boris is just the tonic we need: QUENTIN LETTS on why Bojo's upbeat Brexit vision will succeed
 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4893766/QUENTIN-LETTS-Bojo-s-Brexit-vision-succeed.html#ixzz4t1XrKb52
 

 

[Ozymandias]

1 hour ago, Black Monk said:

Blood stirring Boris is just the tonic we need: QUENTIN LETTS on why Bojo's upbeat Brexit vision will succeed
 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4893766/QUENTIN-LETTS-Bojo-s-Brexit-vision-succeed.html#ixzz4t1XrKb52
 

 

The Mail again. A bit like Hitler repeatedly referring his critics to Mein Kampf! This whole thing is a circus. Boris is a clown who cannot do basic maths and unfortunately neither can those of the population who admire him so readily. Shambolic really.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Ozymandias

[stevewinn]

What promise was not fulfilled that got you hot and bothered, and makes you come out with statements such as Britain is a terrible example of a democracy. you always ALWAYS run the country down. pixies fairies when you come out with comedy Gold such as "Iceland is best example of a democracy" the midn boggles, if you think a country smaller than the City of Liverpool can run in the same fashion as a country with 65 million. just in the same way the EU cannot be run with 500million.

12 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Wrong again. Your 'Irish lad' is 64 years old! Of course the vote counts but why do Brexiteers misrepresent the EU all the time? And Juncker's speech is not a diktat. Just 25 suggestions as to where the EU might go in the future. None of it can be imposed. The EU has been a force for good in Europe, not some evil empire. You need to better educate yourself about the matter.

You should be made up someone called you lad, old fart might be more fitting then, or moaning old fart. - How are Brexiteers misrepresenting the EU? We've commented on Junckers Speech - you know the proposals actually came out of the mouth of your President. you cannot today place on record that the EU will not strive to implement a number or all them policies over the next few years. - you cannot foretell what the future is for the EU. - But what we can say without fear of contradiction from yourself is the ultimate goal of the EU is a Federalism - Now that might be a destination you can subscribe to but its a path the UK cannot follow and a destination we would never accept.

I've said it before, Ireland needs to choose its future before its squashed between the EU and UK. Hard Brexit as it's called is not the end of the UK and we are capable of just brushing it off, not so easy for Ireland. 80% of your trade is done via the UK's transport links. some tough choices coming down the track in the next five years for yourselves. Ireland will once again have to chose as a vassal state who its going to hitch its wagon. Once again Ireland will have its future decided for it by the great powers. Irexit.

 

1 hour ago, Black Monk said:

Blood stirring Boris is just the tonic we need: QUENTIN LETTS on why Bojo's upbeat Brexit vision will succeed
 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4893766/QUENTIN-LETTS-Bojo-s-Brexit-vision-succeed.html#ixzz4t1XrKb52
 

 

Its about time we had a prominent minister coming out and giving us the bright future, the positive alternative Brexit offers.

It was telling how the BBC, Sky News et al, the usual suspects couldn't counter his positive alternative. with two full pages in the telegraph or six pages on-line version, out of 4,000 words the only thing they could do was pick up on the use of the figure 350Million.

The Remainers where up in arms, 350million is a lie, of course it is, WE ALL KNOW the figure we pay to the EU is larger than 350million. How do we know this - Just look at the EU's demand for a €100Billion for our liabilities. - it follows if these are liabilities until 2020. then obviously if we remained our liabilities would still number €100Billion and been duly paid without highlighting it. We are told our membership is £18.2Billion a year. £350million a week. it appears in all the official accounts.

Our Contributions ahead are.

2017/ 2018. Gross. £18.8Billion. (£361Million a week) Rebate £5.4 Billion. Public sector receipts £3.9Billion.

2018/2019. Gross. £19.9Billion. (£382Million a week) Rebate £4Billion. Public sector receipts £4.7Billion.

2019/2020. Gross. £20.7Billion. (£398Million a week) Rebate £4.3Billion.Public sector receipts £4.0Billion.

2020/2021. Gross. £21.49Billion. (£411Million a week) Rebate £4.6Billion. Public sector receipts £3.8Billion.

2021/2022. Gross. £22.2Billion. (£426Million a week) Rebate £4.8Billion. Public sector receipts £4.6Billion

The Gross figures are money that actually leaves the UK account. The EU then hands back rebate - and also hands us back Public sector receipts, but we can only spend it how and where the EU tells us to spend it and then the money spent must follow strict criteria such as the EU flag must be displayed to show it was financed by the EU. (even though its our own money) gives the impression the EU is building all these projects.

On top of the figures above the UK collected import tax/VAT on behalf of the EU. EU revenue: customs duties and sugar levies collected by the UK

TOR €3.2Billion UK contribution to the EU budget share (17.1% UK)

VAT €3.7Billion. UK contribution to the EU budget share (20.7% UK)

GNI €20.6Billion. UK contribution to the EU budget share (20.4% UK)

Collected by the UK on behalf of the EU. Total payments to the EU including EU membership.£40.7Billion a year handed over to the EU. - I don't know about anyone else but these taxes and levies raised in the UK could remain in the UK. and the figures will be higher as the above figures is deducting the 20% the UK keeps for administrative  costs.

The EU is going to lose a helluva lot of funding if there is to be a hard Brexit. But then every cloud, the UK is going to gain an awful lot.

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

You should be made up someone called you lad, old fart might be more fitting then, or moaning old fart.

That kind of personal insult only demonstrates your lack of integrity and the character of many in the Brexit camp. When people haven't got a winning argument they resort to ad hominem comments. 

I have not bothered to re-quote all your statistics because they are irrelevant to the issue of whether or not Britain will have £350 per week to spend after Brexit. Sir David Norgrave, Chairman of the UK Statistics Authority, an independent and reputable professional body of mathematicians, economists, etc., has strongly rejected Boris Johnson's 'mis-use' of official statistics in this regard. I would say that Boris, like those who hang on his every word, is too thick to learn the lesson or, if he is educated enough to understand the facts of the matter, is manipulating and misrepresenting them - like you - to curry populist favour.        

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

That kind of personal insult only demonstrates your lack of integrity and the character of many in the Brexit camp. When people haven't got a winning argument they resort to ad hominem comments. 

I have not bothered to re-quote all your statistics because they are irrelevant to the issue of whether or not Britain will have £350 per week to spend after Brexit. Sir David Norgrave, Chairman of the UK Statistics Authority, an independent and reputable professional body of mathematicians, economists, etc., has strongly rejected Boris Johnson's 'mis-use' of official statistics in this regard. I would say that Boris, like those who hang on his every word, is too thick to learn the lesson or, if he is educated enough to understand the facts of the matter, is manipulating and misrepresenting them - like you - to curry populist favour.        

Irish, Your just a wind up merchant unable to think for yourself. Your like the rest of the Remoaners all you can do is quote what is fed to you by the media. outside of their direction your lost. the facts and figures are irreverent, even though they are the figures contained within the British Governments official records from the Treasury. they don't suit your argument and a quick google doesn't readily offer a rebuttal. so fingers in ears and lalallalalala and quickly try to side step and move on. Go look for yourself. I've done the hard work for you.

Boris Johnson. 4,000 word piece. you have nothing to say. except 350million figure is that because the Media told you what to think.

My post: official figures. you have nothing to say. is that because there is no one to tell you what to think.

p*** off.

 

 

[keithisco]

Personally speaking: I see the Remoan position coming from the fact that none of the EU27 have ANYTHING to gain from Brexit. For all of them there is just a continuation down a path towards political and financial integration led by Germany, that I suspect none of them have really given due consideration to how that will affect their daily lives in the coming years. 

For the EU27 there are only negatives from the UK leaving because it means that their contributions WILL increase, and those grandiose projects that they have become accustomed to will wither away to a shadow of what they were.

Add to that the overwhelming control that Germany will exert does not make for a very pleasant outlook.

I understand Ozymandias dislike for Brexit, but I also perceive maybe something else? A sense that their biggest supporter in the EU is leaving as well, that English (if we believe Juncker) will lose its importance in Committees and sub-committees, and because Ireland was forced into accepting an EU Bailout means that they are indebted to the whole project and will simply follow their lead. The issue of a border in Ireland post-Brexit is also something that Ireland should be closely involved with, yet they seem to have given up the idea that their voice counts for anything and will let the EU call ALL of the shots. The UK and Eire between ourselves could have guaranteed a smooth transition but Barnier et al insist that it is something that the UK alone must sort out.  In short, the EU26 does not give a damn about a possible border because it is irrelevant to their greater pursuit on integration.

[bee]

21 hours ago, keithisco said:

You clearly do not understand Democracy at all... every enfranchised adult had the absolute right to vote in the referendum (and lets not forget the additional I MILLION good people of Cyprus, malta and Ireland resident in the UK whose very pro EU votes still did not change the result). Those who do not vote are irrelevant because they really weren't bothered either way.

 

I agree - those who didn't vote cannot be used in the % arguments about representation because they in effect said ...
'''I'll go with what ever the result is''''

 

[bee]

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

The Mail again. A bit like Hitler repeatedly referring his critics to Mein Kampf! This whole thing is a circus. Boris is a clown who cannot do basic maths and unfortunately neither can those of the population who admire him so readily. Shambolic really.

 

Now look what you've gone and done.... the Godwin's Law siren has gone off....  

It's a pity Alibongo and Eugeneonegin have gone AWOL -- you would have got on well with them Ozymandias ... 

 

 

[bee]

5 hours ago, stevewinn said:

 

Its about time we had a prominent minister coming out and giving us the bright future, the positive alternative Brexit offers.

  I can't help remembering Boris on the day of the referendum vote - in the fish market at the crack of dawn - going all over the 
place all day - campaigning up to the last minute -

that showed the kind of commitment he's showing now -

 

[Ozymandias]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

p*** off.

 OK. I will .... but we're NOT leaving the EU. No country can 'go it alone' in the modern world. Those days are over. Sovereignty and trade are intimately linked. We must all collaborate, respect each other and compromise. That is what the EU recognises and was founded for.

The UK wants out of the European project but the alternative future it wants to embark upon will be frought with less favourable conditions. It wants, for example, to ingratiate itself more in a special relationship with the USA, a country that wants to put itself first and be great again. If the UK must make compromises on multilatetal arrangements it would have been better served to stay in the EU and seek to reform it. 

There is no such thing as free trade anymore. The UK will have to compromise in whatever trade arrangements it makes outside the EU. I don't think that new trading environment will be better for the UK, especially if she wants to retain her current - EU - trading standards.

Ireland will stay in Europe, our natural home. There is no way on earth we will throw in our lot with the UK, a country that historically never had our interests at heart and currently continues to demonstrate that that remains the case. 

Personally, I wish the UK luck. She will certainly need it. 

[keithisco]

31 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 OK. I will .... but we're NOT leaving the EU. No country can 'go it alone' in the modern world. Those days are over. Sovereignty and trade are intimately linked. We must all collaborate, respect each other and compromise. That is what the EU recognises and was founded for.

The UK wants out of the European project but the alternative future it wants to embark upon will be frought with less favourable conditions. It wants, for example, to ingratiate itself more in a special relationship with the USA, a country that wants to put itself first and be great again. If the UK must make compromises on multilatetal arrangements it would have been better served to stay in the EU and seek to reform it. 

There is no such thing as free trade anymore. The UK will have to compromise in whatever trade arrangements it makes outside the EU. I don't think that new trading environment will be better for the UK, especially if she wants to retain her current - EU - trading standards.

Ireland will stay in Europe, our natural home. There is no way on earth we will throw in our lot with the UK, a country that historically never had our interests at heart and currently continues to demonstrate that that remains the case. 

Personally, I wish the UK luck. She will certainly need it. 

I understand entirely what you are saying...and I wish Eire luck as well in trying to have any influence over the way the direction of EU27 is going.

"Going it alone" is a phrase I often hear bandied about as a negative, but the reality is quite the opposite-the UK will NOT be going it alone. It will strike new Free Trade agreements with the important new and emerging economies as well as with the mature established economies in the world-and they will be signed more quickly than it is possible to be achieved if we were to be stuck within the EU and there is good reason for this:

The UK does not produce olives or oranges, melon or peppers or avocados (which are produced in southern EU states) so no time will be wasted on agreeing limits and quotas in those areas (there are many more food products as well but I do not intend to list them here). The tariffs currently imposed by the EU on other commodities from 3rd countries (which tariffs are given over to EU minus 20%) can also be lifted so that once again we can import from African and Oceanian and American nations at reduced cost to our consumers...and so the list of benefits goes on. Far from "going it alone" the UK will be free to re-engage with a world economy that is outstripping what the old, hidebound, protectionist EU is even capable of achieving.

If we CHOOSE to rescind certain aspects of sovereignty for financial and trade gain then it will be OUR decision and not dictated to us by Brussels, whereas Eire, as a condition of your bailout I suspect, will simply become a small. compliant pawn for the Commission to impose its will on. 

I am pleased that Eire has found its place in this world as an EU country-it probably is right for you, but should you change your mind and wish to exert a presence in the greater world then you will not find the UK spiteful or vengeful, but will be welcomed and assisted into the world with open arms.

 

[stevewinn]

40 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 OK. I will .... but we're NOT leaving the EU. No country can 'go it alone' in the modern world. Those days are over. Sovereignty and trade are intimately linked. We must all collaborate, respect each other and compromise. That is what the EU recognises and was founded for.

The UK wants out of the European project but the alternative future it wants to embark upon will be frought with less favourable conditions. It wants, for example, to ingratiate itself more in a special relationship with the USA, a country that wants to put itself first and be great again. If the UK must make compromises on multilatetal arrangements it would have been better served to stay in the EU and seek to reform it. 

There is no such thing as free trade anymore. The UK will have to compromise in whatever trade arrangements it makes outside the EU. I don't think that new trading environment will be better for the UK, especially if she wants to retain her current - EU - trading standards.

Ireland will stay in Europe, our natural home. There is no way on earth we will throw in our lot with the UK, a country that historically never had our interests at heart and currently continues to demonstrate that that remains the case. 

Personally, I wish the UK luck. She will certainly need it. 

yet again you've moved on. - okay,

Reform from within; Did you not see David Cameron's attempt at reform. he went to the EU asking for nothing and came back with even less. The EU thought The British will never leave we reform. Their arrogance politically lost them the UK.

it must have slipped your mind, - Tony Blairs attempt at EU reform, when he gave away a large proportion of our rebate in exchange for EU reform, We honoured or part but the EU never reformed and still to this day never reformed. the UK lost that amount of rebate and as never seen a penny piece of it since. cost to the UK tax payer £16Billion. 

On Free Trade deals: Actually Free trade deals don't exist. because they have to be mutually beneficial for both partners. So not free trade. the EU external tariff is 5.1% under WTO rules which the EU is signatory 90% of our exports to the EU would carry a 0% tariff. interesting don't you think. But, so here we have the EU external 'average tariff 5.1%. USA 3.5%. Canada 4.2%. Australia 2.5% Japan 4%. The pound as fallen against the dollar and the Euro, but lets take the Euro pound has fallen what 10% that means British exports are 10% cheaper. add the average EU tariff 5.1% UK goods are still 4.9% cheaper. (remember 90% of exports are still 0%)

Let me ask have you done your homework i set you? Did you see if the £350million pound figure had any truth to it? or are you still listening to the i'll informed media. - Well, let me set the record straight for others who read these posts. i shouldn't really do this, i should keep my powder dry for another day, then again i did mention this two years ago, anyway.........Did you also know the rebate is not set in the EU treaties, it is negotiated as part of the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF) every seven years and must be unanimously agreed by EU members. so who's in charge of this money, who controls it. Could any remainer guarantee our rebate would have continued. increased, reduced or scrapped in the future.

The UK's contribution to the EU is £18.8Billion Gross. (£361Million a week) Rebate £5.4 Billion. Public sector receipts £3.9Billion. see all included. no lie or selective quoting, all figures correct, rebate, public sector fund.

Now, tell me who's in charge of this money who controls it, that's right the EU. not the UK, Now, if you still think that doesn't justify the £350million figure paid to the EU. would it surprise you if i highlighted the UK contributions are paid in full and rebate is paid in arrears to us.

the 2017/2018 £18.8Billion (£361million a week) is paid in full, and the rebate is paid in arrears. by the time we leave in 2018/2019. the  figures will be 2018/2019. Gross. £19.9Billion. (£382Million a week) Rebate £4Billion. Public sector receipts £4.7Billion. (382Million a week) until the EU repays us £4Billion in rebate and 4.7Billion in Public receipts. 2020.

That is to say, part of the money which is paid to the EU in one budget year is later deemed to have been an overpayment and so it is paid back to the UK in the next year, and to a lesser extent later years. It does leave the country, then it later comes back. The calculation of the rebate for any one year is budgeted and paid for the following year, and the payments are subject to revision for up to three further years. that's why they appear as they do in the official treasury figures. trouble is you have read the previous years budget account to understand it.

It would seem a few people owe mister Boris Johnson an apology and the same applies to the 2014 figures used for the 350million figure. Why on earth it hasn't been mentioned is beyond me. maybe they are saving it for the perfect time. i'd think now was that time, and the Sir David chap who over stepped his remit could fall on his sword.

 

Lets dispel the myths like we did during the Referendum and paint the bright colourful picture of a Britain outside the EU. far to many people telling us what we cant do, its about time we started hearing from the people who can tell us what we can do, Well done the Foreign Secretary Boris for doing just that with his timely intervention.