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Still Waters

Student killed trying to stop school shooter

49 posts in this topic

Background;

The school had warnings. That kid had just been suspended for passing around notes warning people he was about to do something stupid and violent that might get him killed or in jail. 

The school did not inform the police.

They made him stay away until he got a certification of good mental health from somebody with a degree. Yeah... and on his first day back, THIS happened.

Nice job, all 'round. 

Next came all the confidentiality requests, as the school seeks to cover it's a$$ets. <_<

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no man, it is gun's fault, those pesky critters always put stupid things in people's minds, and make them kill people, i'm telling you, it is guns, people are never responsible. 

:rofl:

Edited by aztek
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4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Excellent examples. Tell me, how many of those situations involve objects that were created solely to kill? 

It is an object designed to kill and has no other purpose (except to scare other people with murder objects into not using their murder object on you). Of course it's barbaric for a normal citizen to own a murder weapon in waiting. 

I own a longbow.

ive never hunted with it, but I could kill you with it as easily as someone with a gun could. I get enjoyment out of shooting with it at an archery range.

such terrible barbarism.

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2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I own a longbow.

ive never hunted with it, but I could kill you with it as easily as someone with a gun could. I get enjoyment out of shooting with it at an archery range.

such terrible barbarism.

They're also illegal in my country. Nice try though mate! :lol:

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23 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I own a longbow.

ive never hunted with it, but I could kill you with it as easily as someone with a gun could. I get enjoyment out of shooting with it at an archery range.

such terrible barbarism.

I have a six inch butcher knife, which is also illegal in a lot of places. Apparently, you have to officially be a chef to own one. Screwdrivers are filed down into makeshift weapons and acid is regularly thrown in people's faces. 

Close one avenue and they will take another route...like bombs made of fairy lights of all things. People are very creative and statistics conveniently leave those out.

Edited by Michelle
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12 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

They're also illegal in my country. Nice try though mate! :lol:

Really?   Bummer.

I guess it is what to expect from different cultures.   No biggie.  

I am also against making alcohol illegal even though it would save so many lives and help many peoples health.  

Did a quick check on countries that have outlawed alcohol.   Boy, Canada didn't last long.  :D

Present

Currently, alcohol prohibition is enforced in many Muslim-majority countries and some regions of India.[1]

Past

50px-Question_book-new.svg.png
This section does not cite any sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (December 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

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6 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I have a six inch butcher knife, which is also illegal in a lot of places. Apparently, you have to officially be a chef to own one. Screwdrivers are filed down into makeshift weapons and acid is regularly thrown in people's faces. 

Close one avenue and they will take another route...like bombs made of fairy lights of all things. People are very creative and statistics conveniently leave those out.

I agree with you, but I also can see where guns are a little different.   They make killing much easier.  

However, I am willing to accept the risk in order to keep my freedom to own them.  

Funny coincidence.  Today I got an invite from my works electrical supplier to an outing.   It is at a shooting club.  Trap, Skeet and 5 stand.   I'm not sure what 5 stand is.    I am going.   You can bring your own guns or borrow.   I'm excited.  

I don't believe we will be killing anything.

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On 9/16/2017 at 7:51 AM, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I think addressing the correlation between school shootings and SSRI's medication should be first and foremost.

You take SSRI medicine when you have depression, of course there is a correlation. 

If you're not depressed you're probably not going to shoot the school up.

And if you're not depressed you don't need SSRI's 

Correlation is not causation 

Edited by spartan max2
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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with you, but I also can see where guns are a little different.   They make killing much easier.  

However, I am willing to accept the risk in order to keep my freedom to own them.  

I've done a lot of hiking in the woods by myself. Not to mention self-defense, I've had to put down at least two severely suffering animals, that could not have been saved, because of cruel traps. It broke my heart, but it was the best thing to do at the time. Besides bashing them in the head with a rock, which was too dangerous, I couldn't fathom leaving them there suffering while they were dying.

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7 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I've done a lot of hiking in the woods by myself. Not to mention self-defense, I've had to put down at least two severely suffering animals, that could not have been saved, because of cruel traps. It broke my heart, but it was the best thing to do at the time. Besides bashing them in the head with a rock, which was too dangerous, I couldn't fathom leaving them there suffering while they were dying.

Did you eat them?

 

Just kidding.   

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22 minutes ago, Myles said:

Really?   Bummer.

I guess it is what to expect from different cultures.   No biggie.  

I am also against making alcohol illegal even though it would save so many lives and help many peoples health.  

Did a quick check on countries that have outlawed alcohol.   Boy, Canada didn't last long.  :D

Present

Currently, alcohol prohibition is enforced in many Muslim-majority countries and some regions of India.[1]

Past

50px-Question_book-new.svg.png
This section does not cite any sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (December 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

:D Are you kidding? The US is the benchmark by which all other countries (that don't require it by a strict, fundamentalist religion) know that making alcohol illegal would be a bad idea. A truly massive part of the reason the US has such a problem with gangs and organised crime is exactly because they made alcohol illegal. Tell me, how much did crime increase during prohibition?

You're comparing apples and oranges.

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Did you eat them?

 

Just kidding.   

Not funny. It broke my heart again just mentioning it. :(

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On 9/19/2017 at 11:55 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

Excellent examples. Tell me, how many of those situations involve objects that were created solely to kill? 

It is an object designed to kill and has no other purpose (except to scare other people with murder objects into not using their murder object on you). Of course it's barbaric for a normal citizen to own a murder weapon in waiting. 

Guns were originally created to make life easier in the wilderness, to protect us from things that can and will do us harm. Wars popularized the use of guns on the battlefield, leading to people to attribute killing to guns worldwide which is beyond unreasonable, everything we designed for another reason can and has been used to kill each other. It is no different than a bow and arrow which is used for the same reasons, just that guns are more efficient at doing what the bow does a thousand times over.

A pitchfork wasn't design to kill, but it was used during war. It is mainly used to move hay.
A knife wasn't design to kill, but it is often used to stab people. It is mainly used to cut our food, rope, and other objects.
A axe wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to chop off limbs. It is mainly used to cut down trees and break down wood.
A hammer wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to bash people's heads in. It is mainly used to hammer nails and bash objects into place.
And a gun wasn't designed specifically to kill, but it is often used in wars to maim or injury our enemies. It is mainly used to feed our family by hunting or to put down the sick livestock that threaten the safety of the herd.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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On 9/16/2017 at 2:55 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It's the logical end point of the "punching fascists is okay" train of thought. 

Are we up in arms about fascists getting punched while kids are getting shot?

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On 9/16/2017 at 9:11 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

What's the point? Nothing will change until the majority in the US care about their kids more than they love their guns. Which will likely not happen in our lifetimes.

Typical comment from you.  Millions of Americans grew up handling guns and using them as the tools they are for a couple of hundred years without the problems we have today.  That indicates that the gun isn't the problem, the CULTURE is the problem. Rationality doesn't matter to people who are anti gun by nature of the deep fear they have for a tool that they've been convinced they don't have a right to possess.  No doubt there are many Americans who are unqualified to possess firearms but the same can be said of cars. Save us the phony concern over our children. 

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On 9/16/2017 at 5:39 AM, Arbenol said:

To be honest, I haven't heard much from the anti-gun crowd about this. Seems surprising.

What I have read is that this was the 31st school shooting this year, and that there have been more mass shootings this year than there have been days. I get the impression that many see that as a price you pay for having the right to bear arms. But at what point does it become a problem that needs fixing?

The problem is being addressed on many levels, just not the way the Antigun crowd wish.  Prohibition and confiscation would lead to far more death than it's worth.  Short of that, the only effective fix will come from changing the hearts and minds of the people who use the guns to lash out irrationally. As I just told the git from Scotland, it's the culture that has to change.  

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2 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Guns were originally created to make life easier in the wilderness, to protect us from things that can and will do us harm. Wars popularized the use of guns on the battlefield, leading to people to attribute killing to guns worldwide which is beyond unreasonable, everything we designed for another reason can and has been used to kill each other. It is no different than a bow and arrow which is used for the same reasons, just that guns are more efficient at doing what the bow does a thousand times over.

A pitchfork wasn't design to kill, but it was used during war. It is mainly used to move hay.
A knife wasn't design to kill, but it is often used to stab people. It is mainly used to cut our food, rope, and other objects.
A axe wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to chop off limbs. It is mainly used to cut down trees and break down wood.
A hammer wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to bash people's heads in. It is mainly used to hammer nails and bash objects into place.
And a gun wasn't designed specifically to kill, but it is often used in wars to maim or injury our enemies. It is mainly used to feed our family by hunting or to put down the sick livestock that threaten the safety of the herd.

No one hunts with a hand gun.

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2 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

No one hunts with a hand gun.

I do... if my initial shot doesn't kill the deer, I pull out handgun and make it clean. Also handguns are used for defensive purposes, to protecting your family and property. 

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3 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

I do... if my initial shot doesn't kill the deer, I pull out handgun and make it clean. Also handguns are used for defensive purposes, to protecting your family and property. 

From someone else with a hand gun who's not using it for a defensive purpose?

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Just now, Likely Guy said:

From someone else with a hand gun who's not using it for a defensive purpose?

Another person might just be collecting them. I know people who collect guns. :)

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Just now, Uncle Sam said:

Another person might just be collecting them. I know people who collect guns. :)

True. But hand guns were designed to shoot people at close range.

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14 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

I do... if my initial shot doesn't kill the deer, I pull out handgun and make it clean. Also handguns are used for defensive purposes, to protecting your family and property. 

not only that plenty of people hunt with bore revolver, even install scopes on them, pretty common thing. 

having handgun on you during hunt is also very common.

 

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7 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Guns were originally created to make life easier in the wilderness, to protect us from things that can and will do us harm. Wars popularized the use of guns on the battlefield, leading to people to attribute killing to guns worldwide which is beyond unreasonable, everything we designed for another reason can and has been used to kill each other. It is no different than a bow and arrow which is used for the same reasons, just that guns are more efficient at doing what the bow does a thousand times over.

A pitchfork wasn't design to kill, but it was used during war. It is mainly used to move hay.
A knife wasn't design to kill, but it is often used to stab people. It is mainly used to cut our food, rope, and other objects.
A axe wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to chop off limbs. It is mainly used to cut down trees and break down wood.
A hammer wasn't designed to kill, but it is often used to bash people's heads in. It is mainly used to hammer nails and bash objects into place.
And a gun wasn't designed specifically to kill, but it is often used in wars to maim or injury our enemies. It is mainly used to feed our family by hunting or to put down the sick livestock that threaten the safety of the herd.

IIRC, it was the other way around. Guns were used as 'hand cannon' by select infra thy regiments and then once technology evolved a bit, they found their way into the farmers and hunters hands.

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6 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Are we up in arms about fascists getting punched while kids are getting shot?

No,  but the train of thought that starts with "punching fascists is okay" stops at "hurting people who disagree with me is okay" and ends at "murdering people who I don't like is okay" unless sanity prevails and people get off the train. 

For the record - punching fascists IS a good idea. As long as we stop there. And the fascists are actually fascists and not Orwellian Fasicsts, aka "anyone whose politics I disagree with".

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