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oslove

How to explain existence of God from reality

390 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

I'd marry you in a heartbeat though.

Who'd of thunk when we set off on this looooong journey that is oslove's explanation of God's existence from reality, that along the way we would witness a marriage proposal?! :)

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11 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:
11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I have no clue what you are trying to say with this or how this relates to and answers my post. 

 

In Gnosticism the "Demiurge" is a heavenly being, subordinate to God and Lord of all things physical and antipathetic to the purely spiritual. TS's personal theology reminds me of LDS beliefs, particularly that "God was once as man is, and as God is now, man one day will be."

Thank you for translating it for me. Though, does it answer my point. (and that I'm now finding out there are other 'beings' in the picture! :o ) and the point being a higher being, or God, doing something about those who harm and not nosying on those who self harm? 

(Ok, it kind of still confuses me.) 

10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Reality is subjective for every individual and so would their interpretation of god so to define god from reality is not possible in a means of creating a positive and unified description for all people, so it remains a personal experience.

jmccr8

In which I agree whole heartily. I get the feeling, that some people think it's suppose to be an objective experience for all. I wonder at how they can see it that way. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Thank you for translating it for me. Though, does it answer my point. (and that I'm now finding out there are other 'beings' in the picture! :o ) and the point being a higher being, or God, doing something about those who harm and not nosying on those who self harm? 

(Ok, it kind of still confuses me.) 

In which I agree whole heartily. I get the feeling, that some people think it's suppose to be an objective experience for all. I wonder at how they can see it that way. 

 

Whether it be a lifeline to eternity or a ponderous chain to drag them down the abyss, I think people are the authors of their own fate and create their own heavens and their own hells.

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Thank you for translating it for me. Though, does it answer my point. (and that I'm now finding out there are other 'beings' in the picture! :o ) and the point being a higher being, or God, doing something about those who harm and not nosying on those who self harm? 

(Ok, it kind of still confuses me.) 

In which I agree whole heartily. I get the feeling, that some people think it's suppose to be an objective experience for all. I wonder at how they can see it that way. 

 

Whether it be a lifeline to eternity or a ponderous chain to drag them down the abyss, I think people are the authors of their own fate and create their own heavens and their own hells.

Well, it seems that the argument or debate of people themselves being the authors of their own lives and fate, being responsible for them, I'm sure is self-evident. And even more, I would think that this is a good counter-point to the thought it's irrelevant if people believe there is a God or not. On the relevancy of this ideal with the point of view that God does exists within all this, is that with all that said about care and love and guidance and omnipotence of God, being your own guide and responsibility would show he doesn't exist. If we get down to the nitty gritty of this debate, I would consider that, when someone else brings up our being our own authors. 

The long run here is, thinking of the evidence or proof of God, the possibility of that God still exists, I find hard to believe when told you're still responsible for yourself. How does that prove God? I think, this is not about how we should be self responsible and work hard toward our own path, but that being told so, while still arguing the existence of God, doesn't still prove God's presence. And even though, it doesn't necessarily prove God doesn't exist, despite authoring your own life, but that authoring your own life, makes for a good case, that God probably doesn't exist. 

To sum up, the need to lecture or explain, living your own life for the goodness of it, I would find as a side point. The total proof of God's existence, is still left as not being proved. For me to looked at it a bit further, if a child loving God exists, God would intervene. It would seem to me, being told to take matters into your own hands, might just be a good subjective proof, that you have to because there is no God to help you. 

And to go a bit further more, why are people being lectured to take it in their own hands, when God's existence is questioned because of the lack of show during the bad times? That seems to me, to be a distraction method. But, that is me. ;) 

 

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16 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I have no clue what you are trying to say with this or how this relates to and answers my post. 

 

I'm offering a solution for the theological problem raised a couple of pages ago about child abuses and suffering.

The Gnostics accepted the Greek idea of radical dualism between God (spirit) and the world (matter). According to their worldview, the created order was evil, inferior and opposed to the good. The true, ultimate and transcendant God may have created the first order, but each successive order (including the creation of this Universe) was the work of anti-gods, archons or a Demiurge (subordinate deity).

 

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, it seems that the argument or debate of people themselves being the authors of their own lives and fate, being responsible for them, I'm sure is self-evident. And even more, I would think that this is a good counter-point to the thought it's irrelevant if people believe there is a God or not. On the relevancy of this ideal with the point of view that God does exists within all this, is that with all that said about care and love and guidance and omnipotence of God, being your own guide and responsibility would show he doesn't exist. If we get down to the nitty gritty of this debate, I would consider that, when someone else brings up our being our own authors. 

The long run here is, thinking of the evidence or proof of God, the possibility of that God still exists, I find hard to believe when told you're still responsible for yourself. How does that prove God? I think, this is not about how we should be self responsible and work hard toward our own path, but that being told so, while still arguing the existence of God, doesn't still prove God's presence. And even though, it doesn't necessarily prove God doesn't exist, despite authoring your own life, but that authoring your own life, makes for a good case, that God probably doesn't exist. 

To sum up, the need to lecture or explain, living your own life for the goodness of it, I would find as a side point. The total proof of God's existence, is still left as not being proved. For me to looked at it a bit further, if a child loving God exists, God would intervene. It would seem to me, being told to take matters into your own hands, might just be a good subjective proof, that you have to because there is no God to help you. 

And to go a bit further more, why are people being lectured to take it in their own hands, when God's existence is questioned because of the lack of show during the bad times? That seems to me, to be a distraction method. But, that is me. ;) 

 

I have no idea whether God even troubles himself with our mundane, day-to-day existence. Simple Faith is acknowledged to be the source of most miracles attributed to Christ. Never-the-less, I'm sure Lot's wife would have agreed with you.

 

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2 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:
19 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I have no clue what you are trying to say with this or how this relates to and answers my post. 

 

I'm offering a solution for the theological problem raised a couple of pages ago about child abuses and suffering.

The Gnostics accepted the Greek idea of radical dualism between God (spirit) and the world (matter). According to their worldview, the created order was evil, inferior and opposed to the good. The true, ultimate and transcendant God may have created the first order, but each successive order (including the creation of this Universe) was the work of anti-gods, archons or a Demiurge (subordinate deity).

I appreciate your response and you explaining it to me. In one sense, I can reflect on this 'point of view'. But a part of me, could not see this, for I see the natural world, the universe, as something created out of natural situations. 

I don't see this as a solution, just as an explanation for why there is no response to the bad, by a loving higher power. 

Well, anyways, that's my take on it, and I thank you for your response. 

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I have no idea whether God even troubles himself with our mundane, day-to-day existence. Simple Faith is acknowledged to be the source of most miracles attributed to Christ. Never-the-less, I'm sure Lot's wife would have agreed with you.

 

*shrugs* probably. 

Here's the thing, if there are many who feel that the lack of response in a troubled world means there is no higher power, I can see why. I have my own point of views, and of course, my own ;) 'deity'. But, that is something I have a point of view, and not going to insist others accept. :yes: 

 

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59 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I appreciate your response and you explaining it to me. In one sense, I can reflect on this 'point of view'. But a part of me, could not see this, for I see the natural world, the universe, as something created out of natural situations. 

I don't see this as a solution, just as an explanation for why there is no response to the bad, by a loving higher power. 

Well, anyways, that's my take on it, and I thank you for your response. 

*shrugs* probably. 

Here's the thing, if there are many who feel that the lack of response in a troubled world means there is no higher power, I can see why. I have my own point of views, and of course, my own ;) 'deity'. But, that is something I have a point of view, and not going to insist others accept. :yes: 

 

That's all Gods were to man in ancient times; higher powers to beseech for aid or to propitiate to gain favor or avoid their wrath. Some people's concept of God is that: A great sugar daddy in the sky. Even in the Bible it says that God is the God of the living, not the dead. The dead have no need for a God or religion, having passed on to forever, or the forever of oblivion.

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12 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's all Gods were to man in ancient times; higher powers to beseech for aid or to propitiate to gain favor or avoid their wrath. Some people's concept of God is that: A great sugar daddy in the sky. Even in the Bible it says that God is the God of the living, not the dead. The dead have no need for a God or religion, having passed on to forever, or the forever of oblivion.

 And thus the same ole question remains and probably unanswered or sidetrack into an anecdotal thought-provoking other question ( :no: ) that doesn’t answer the main one. 

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38 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 And thus the same ole question remains and probably unanswered or sidetrack into an anecdotal thought-provoking other question ( :no: ) that doesn’t answer the main one. 

The answer to the question man has pondered for millennia? You won't find it in this world and you most certainly won't find it here. 

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On 10/15/2017 at 5:26 PM, TruthSeeker_ said:

I'd marry you in a heartbeat though.

I've been trying to figure out how to take that, because it's an odd response.

I figure you're seeing me as the flaws and the "nature" I was talking about. 

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 And thus the same ole question remains and probably unanswered or sidetrack into an anecdotal thought-provoking other question ( :no: ) that doesn’t answer the main one. 

The answer to the question man has pondered for millennia? 

Yeah, I know. :)  ;)  

Quote

You won't find it in this world and you most certainly won't find it here. 

And, again, I know. In which, I would like to make note, I believe we're talking about the question I brought up, ( the counter question :D ), in which is not the question I'm asking, but those I have observed who wants to sidetrack in answering the first question. ( You know, of God's existence and involvement in the scheme of things. ;) ) 

The way I see it, all in all, the first question, I would think answers it pretty nicely for some, ( who probably like to be in denial of it. )  

.............. But that's me and my thoughts on it. :D 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I've been trying to figure out how to take that, because it's an odd response.

I figure you're seeing me as the flaws and the "nature" I was talking about. 

That was me very much liking your insights on these topics.

Support from fellow Gnostic-minded is essential, if we are to finally find freedom in this Terra Damnata (as Cormac McCarthy call the kenoma, or the emptiness that is this Universe). And either way, let us continue give meaning to the Universe, saving it from being a cold mistake, infusing the fabric of reality itself with our artistic passion. Like Carl J. Jung once said: ''All the works of men have their origin in creative fansasy. What right have we to then depreciate imagination?''

Edited by TruthSeeker_

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4 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

That was me very much liking your insights on these topics.

Support from fellow Gnostic-minded is essential, if we are to finally find freedom in this Terra Damnata (as Cormac McCarthy call the kenoma, or the emptiness that is this Universe). And either way, let us continue give meaning to the Universe, saving it from being a cold mistake, infusing the fabric of reality itself with our artistic passion. Like Carl J. Jung once said: ''All the works of men have their origin in creative fansasy. What right have we to then depreciate imagination?''

I figured it was something like...I like you (your thinking) even though you're the literal embodiment of flawed nature and an illusion. 

Lol. Gnostic compliments are complicated. 

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On 10/16/2017 at 2:31 AM, ouija ouija said:

Who'd of thunk when we set off on this looooong journey that is oslove's explanation of God's existence from reality, that along the way we would witness a marriage proposal?! :)

*breaks into song*

...tell me all your thoughts on God...

It really can't be that surprising, though. I guess we all know more about each other than most in "real life" do. That's why I call that the Matrix.

It's refreshing considering most people don't like what I have to say. 

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