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Still Waters

One man’s $100,000 search for UFOs

46 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, Stiff said:

Of course they do. They're just not from other planets.

I don't think anyone has professed to know with outright certainty that they don't exist. More that the odds are ridiculously slim unless we come across some proof.

See above.

Unless you can prove otherwise then it is you who is wrong.

Please prove otherwise and I will be happy to rescind this comment and issue you a full apology.

I don't know where they come from. On that I can't make any claim. My only argument on this subject is that they exist. 

Most of the skeptics here do not share your and my certainty that they exist at all.  They would have us believe no one has ever actually seen a flying saucer. They are wrong. 

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

You claiming to know isn't the funny part. You claiming to know and being outright wrong is the funny part. 

I think you're mixing me up with someone else.  Can you give an example of me claiming to know? 

I was just here pointing out your logical fallacy.  I'm interested though, what kind of personal experience have you had? Abduction? Sightings? Visitation? 

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

I don't know where they come from. On that I can't make any claim. My only argument on this subject is that they exist. 

Most of the skeptics here do not share your and my certainty that they exist at all.  They would have us believe no one has ever actually seen a flying saucer. They are wrong. 

OK, I'm not sure we're on exactly the same page here but I don't believe that there are any extra-terrestrial flying saucers that have been seen.

Flying saucers, yes... but not extra-terrestrial. There are many examples, with just a few below, but I too would also be interested in how you would know of any that aren't already known about. (That is, if you do?) I'm intrigued. 

au5.jpg

595px-Avrocar_2.jpg

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17 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

To use an everyday example, what possible proof could I show you to 'prove' cats exist?  Automobiles?  Buildings?  Humans?  Clouds?

Shall I go on for a decade?  DECENT proof is pretty easily collected, if something exists..

With good reason. The videos and pics, almost without a single exception (feel free to provide one) are without proper provenance, or even basic corroboration.

We don't need luck for cats, clouds....  And the vast majority of ufo's are quite easy to explain / identify.

Your argument?  Yes, it is.

Basically I agree, but in preacherman76's defense, I would say if there's ever a real ET UFO event it would be unexpected and rare. Cats, clouds, are easily proven because they are around us all the time and so we are prepared to gather all kinds of evidence for their existence. 

This offer of $100,000 for proof will  only likely to get the man notice not any proof.

I would imagine if anyone had undeniable proof, it would already be out there! 

Edited by White Unicorn
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5 hours ago, Stiff said:

OK, I'm not sure we're on exactly the same page here but I don't believe that there are any extra-terrestrial flying saucers that have been seen.

Flying saucers, yes... but not extra-terrestrial. There are many examples, with just a few below, but I too would also be interested in how you would know of any that aren't already known about. (That is, if you do?) I'm intrigued. 

au5.jpg

595px-Avrocar_2.jpg

 

 

The one I saw was silent. It could just sit there and hover. It also flew around kinda like a bumble bee. At one point it even seemed to take interest in us.

There is nothing on record that explains what I saw for a full half hour right above my house. 

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

The one I saw was silent. It could just sit there and hover. It also flew around kinda like a bumble bee. At one point it even seemed to take interest in us.

There is nothing on record that explains what I saw for a full half hour right above my house. 

Fascinating, thank you. Can I ask some more details please? Was this at night? Was it something close to you or more distant? What year was it? Anything you are willing to tell really.

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21 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Fascinating, thank you. Can I ask some more details please? Was this at night? Was it something close to you or more distant? What year was it? Anything you are willing to tell really.

Ok I'll take ya all the way back to the summer of 1994. Mid july-ish. It was in a little town named New Windsor, NY, about an hour north of New York City. 

Me and a older cousin just got done drinking a 12 pack down at the Hudson River. It was probably 12:30-1 in the morning. We walked back to my house. There I noticed my neighbor and his son standing in the middle of the road looking into the sky. So I look up to see what the heck they are staring at. 

I'll be damned about 150 feet or so right above my head is a damn flying saucer. If I had to guess I'd say it could have fit 3 to 5 people. Had 4 different color lights that together took up nearly the entire bottom of the craft. The only place on it that didn't have lights was in the middle. 

It stayed hovering for about 10 minutes. No movement, no sound at all. Then suddenly it seemed to take noticed of us. It began descending towards us. It didn't get to close, but close enough were my flight instinct nearly kicked on. 

Then suddenly it got board with us I guess and began going back up. Then slowly it drifted off back towards the river till we could no longer see it. 

 

Edited by preacherman76
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Well I certainly can't explain that. Thanks for sharing.

Did you see anymore detail on the saucer or mostly just the lights? Did it feel like you were looking at the bottom of an object or could it have been one side of a sphere? 

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Just now, I'mConvinced said:

Well I certainly can't explain that. Thanks for sharing.

Did you see anymore detail on the saucer or mostly just the lights? Did it feel like you were looking at the bottom of an object or could it have been one side of a sphere? 

The lights are what stand out the most. Almost looked like if you had flipped over one of those electric simon says kid games. Not quite, but almost. Definitely looked like the bottom of an object 

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Just now, preacherman76 said:

The lights are what stand out the most. Almost looked like if you had flipped over one of those electric simon says kid games. Not quite, but almost. Definitely looked like the bottom of an object 

I thought of that game when you first described the UFO. 

Here's my honest take on what you've said so far and a few more questions:

1. Your story hangs together thematically. I like your admission to drinking, it adds credibility to the account.

2. I don't doubt you saw something. I can't tell you what that was. I think whatever it was has had enough of an affect on you to make you pursue answers for a long time.

3. I would love to hear from someone else there to compare details. No offense but one person only gets one perspective and we all know perspective can be problematic. How did they describe the experience? What did you do afterwards?

4. As weird as this thing was, what makes you rule out a strange natural phenomena? Could an exotic form of ball lightning be possible?

It's really refreshing for someone here to talk specifics of a personal experience. You say you've never seen anything since?

 

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2 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

I thought of that game when you first described the UFO. 

Here's my honest take on what you've said so far and a few more questions:

1. Your story hangs together thematically. I like your admission to drinking, it adds credibility to the account.

2. I don't doubt you saw something. I can't tell you what that was. I think whatever it was has had enough of an affect on you to make you pursue answers for a long time.

3. I would love to hear from someone else there to compare details. No offense but one person only gets one perspective and we all know perspective can be problematic. How did they describe the experience? What did you do afterwards?

4. As weird as this thing was, what makes you rule out a strange natural phenomena? Could an exotic form of ball lightning be possible?

It's really refreshing for someone here to talk specifics of a personal experience. You say you've never seen anything since?

 

Two of the 4 people who were there that night unfortunately are no longer with us. My Cousin and my neighbor both passed away some time ago. 

The only one besides myself who is still here is my old neighbors son. It had been many years since we have spoken, but about 5 years ago I found him on facebook. We ended up talking on the phone. To my astonishment he barely remembered it. I even said to him I was baffled it wasn't as profound to him as it had been to me. Though he did remember, and agreed that's what we saw. 

All 4 of us were in agreement at the time though. 

To my best estimate, the saucer was mechanical, and moved with purpose and intelligence. 

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Sorry to hear that. 

When you said it moved a bit like a bumblebee, how fast were the movements/changes in direction? Fast, jerky, slow, steady etc

 

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What I don't get is why we are portrayed as denying that UFO's exist - we/I don't - that would be daft.  And frankly, PM, the only time I give you a hard time is when you make silly logical errors in your assertions, and you go off attacking straw men...  

I've never denied your sighting, and it is an interesting story.  However (and I would expect this for any story I posted here), when a bit of scrutiny is applied, there are some parts to it that, shall we say, lessen its impact.

You had been drinking and it was late (ok, maybe that's light drinking - I'm not a drinker).  Thanks for your honesty, though.

You don't say what, if anything you, or any of the other witnesses, did to follow up on the sighting - did you call the police, the meteorology bureau, the local astronomy clubs, airfields, RC aircraft clubs?  When something vaguely similar happened to me, that's what I did, and when I got to the astronomy clubs I found out what it was...

Did you diarise it at the time, so as to ensure your memories didn't change over time?

Did any of the other witnesses independently discuss this on other forums?  If not why not?  Are you still in touch with them?

So, OK, let's assume this was real, alien (interdimensional/whatever) non-terrestrial craft, and not either some type of earthly technology, or an RC craft (they weren't common then, but they certainly existed).  What next?  Do we just accept this, without any tangible evidence or real solution to what it was?  Would *you* offer that sort of blind acceptance to someone else if the roles were reversed?  Would a court convict, or a scientist be prepared to write up a paper, based only on your word?  Should they?

Sometimes, PM, you have be realistic.  You are welcome to hold your views, but you shouldn't be surprised when others are not convinced by what appears to have been something very isolated.

Like IC, I find your report interesting, but I would really love to hear the other person's take on it.  I find it hard to understand how this would not be a bit of a lifechanger if it happened exactly as you say.  My guess is that your memories and his may not match very well - your brain might be giving you an exaggerated version.  It happens...

Anyway, we can't positively identify the craft, it hasn't happened again, we don't know what it was or if it was terrestrial.  If that summary isn't correct, then feel free, but to me it seems like a bit of a dead end - sorry.

 

PS, I see you have already answered some of this, but I'll leave it as is..

Edited by ChrLzs
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My phone is dying fellas. I'll have to catch up with you guys in the morning. I'll be sure to answer your questions then Chrlzs. Have a good night(or a good whatever time of day it is where you are) guys.

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Thanks for sharing your experience PM, very enchanting stuff. :)

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11 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

What I don't get is why we are portrayed as denying that UFO's exist - we/I don't - that would be daft.  And frankly, PM, the only time I give you a hard time is when you make silly logical errors in your assertions, and you go off attacking straw men...  

I've never denied your sighting, and it is an interesting story.  However (and I would expect this for any story I posted here), when a bit of scrutiny is applied, there are some parts to it that, shall we say, lessen its impact.

I don't have a problem with you guys examining my story. I wouldn't have told it if I did. The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that regardless of what conclusion you guys come to, that it happened exactly as I have explained here many times. Id bet the farm on it

You had been drinking and it was late (ok, maybe that's light drinking - I'm not a drinker).  Thanks for your honesty, though.

Im not a drinker anymore myself. If I have two beers a year its a lot. Back then though this was considered a slow night. 6 beers over a 3 hour period barely got me a buzz. BTW we are talking American beer. Very weak. If we had been tripping on acid or something I could see how folks might find it relevant.

You don't say what, if anything you, or any of the other witnesses, did to follow up on the sighting - did you call the police, the meteorology bureau, the local astronomy clubs, airfields, RC aircraft clubs?  When something vaguely similar happened to me, that's what I did, and when I got to the astronomy clubs I found out what it was...

We weren't the police calling type back then. None of us even considered calling anyone. I think because we knew there was no way any authority was going to accept what we saw. This sighting was so in your face, for a long period of time. There just wasn't any other way about it. We all knew what we were witnessing wasn't even possible according to nearly anyone. Not one of us was left with any doubt what we saw. It was a flying saucer. I honestly believe anyone, if they had been there that night, would say the same thing. It would be on par with seeing an elephant walk through your back yard.

I had heard of a few pretty profound sightings over the years in the same area. I remember thinking as we watched that 'wow, come to find out these people were telling the truth'. The only question I had lingering after this event was whether it was made by man, or something else. I do remember specifically saying to myself as I watched it that if man could create a flying saucer it would look exactly like that.

Did you diarise it at the time, so as to ensure your memories didn't change over time?

No. What I did do was tell several people about it the very next day. And in the days to come. Many of them have heard this story several times over the years. I've never been accused of changing it. You gotta understand. At the time I had no Idea that this was going to be a pivotal point in my life. I certainly didn't know I'd be trying to convince a guy on the other side of the planet some 23 years later on a computer screen lol. 

 

So, OK, let's assume this was real, alien (interdimensional/whatever) non-terrestrial craft, and not either some type of earthly technology, or an RC craft (they weren't common then, but they certainly existed).  What next?  Do we just accept this, without any tangible evidence or real solution to what it was?  Would *you* offer that sort of blind acceptance to someone else if the roles were reversed?  Would a court convict, or a scientist be prepared to write up a paper, based only on your word?  Should they?

Sometimes, PM, you have be realistic.  You are welcome to hold your views, but you shouldn't be surprised when others are not convinced by what appears to have been something very isolated.

Well Im not really willing to go that far. I don't know if it was aliens or interdemensional beings. Honestly I don't even really lean towards that. I think that its very possible our government has kept us in the dark about technological advancements. Profound technological advancements. All Im really saying is its very possible that many people have seen this exact type of thing, and have been unfairly ridiculed and smeared. Basically regardless of where they come from. Flying saucers exist.

Like IC, I find your report interesting, but I would really love to hear the other person's take on it.  I find it hard to understand how this would not be a bit of a lifechanger if it happened exactly as you say.  My guess is that your memories and his may not match very well - your brain might be giving you an exaggerated version.  It happens...

Anyway, we can't positively identify the craft, it hasn't happened again, we don't know what it was or if it was terrestrial.  If that summary isn't correct, then feel free, but to me it seems like a bit of a dead end - sorry.

No I feel ya. Like I said, I was astonished I had to remind him of that night. I know he remembers it though cause he was filling in things we both remembered as the conversation unfolded. He even rmembered I was with my cousin that night without me reminding him.

 

 

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Thanks for all that preach - I know we have our er.. differences, but I appreciate the way you responded.

I'm neither a drinker or drug taker either, but one of the reasons that I tend to be very wary of people's assurances about the veracity of sightings is a personal experience I had..

To cut a long story short (ok, not very..), there was a time in my life when I used to travel a *very* long distance (2300km), quite regularly, back and forth, alone in my car.  I did that trip, oh, probably 30 times, and the duration of the trip varied from a leisurely 5-day meandering journey, thru to a few occasions when I really pushed myself and my vehicle to the limit, and did it in well under 2 days.  Much of the journey involved remote roads in very flat, open country, and on those latter occasions, I would drive until I could tell that fatigue was about to become a problem, stop and sleep for an hour or two, and then resume..  Thankfully, I've never needed a lot of sleep..

Anyway, you get to know yourself and how you deal with intense tiredness very well in those situations - I became really good at spotting when I was about to get those 'micro-sleeps', and just how far I could push my tiredness before I became a danger to others or myself (not that there was generally much traffic around, in the outback of Australia.  Anyway, there was this one occasion when I decided to take bit of a risk - I was on a deserted back road, no trees or fences just low 'scrub', it was around 3am, with a full moon.  I slowed down and then just drove on well beyond my normal limit of tiredness, and finally reached a stage where I began to hallucinate.  The bushes at the side of the road were morphing into wildlife and then back to bushes - starting with kangaroos, but then, ridiculously, moving to other creatures, like giraffes, elephants, ostriches...  These were not just vague shapes, they were clear, in colour, moved 3-dimensionally, and then vanished only to be replaced with other animals.  It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen - they looked 100% real, and there I was, driving slowly along watching it.  I stopped the vehicle and checked my phone and took a video of myself and the scene (showing nothing except the bushes, of course) to verify that I wasn't just lucidly dreaming, and then finally, beyond exhausted, got back into the car and slept.

Those hallucinations were as real as anything I had seen - but my brain had created them for me..  I'd always known that you can't really trust memories.. but this absolutely hammered it home to me.

I'm not saying this to denigrate your sighting - it's more about apologising for being such a cynic and to hopefully help explain why I am hard to impress with anecdotes...

Anyway, thanks for the extra details.

Edited by ChrLzs
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I was gripped reading that ChrLzs, thanks for sharing. I never realised that tiredness hallucinations could be that realistic (I guess I've never really had any to compare)

Massive respect for driving alone in the outback, especially those kind of timescales and distances! eek.gif

 

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22 minutes ago, Stiff said:

I was gripped reading that ChrLzs, thanks for sharing. I never realised that tiredness hallucinations could be that realistic (I guess I've never really had any to compare)

Massive respect for driving alone in the outback, especially those kind of timescales and distances! eek.gif

 

Thanks!  Interestingly, since that time, I have pushed myself to similar tiredness levels (but not when driving!), and have not experienced a single hallucination.  I suspect the fact that it was dark and I was focusing intently on my surroundings *looking* carefully for wildlife, gave my exhausted brain the reason it needed to create the animals that I was looking for, and many others!  It was very surreal and weird - when I awoke some hours later, I didn't really believe what had happened until I checked the phone to ensure I had really taken that video to prove I was awake..

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That is a great story. I have considered trying sleep deprivation meditations. From what I understand it's one of the best ways to make it to that altered state. 

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15 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

That is a great story. I have considered trying sleep deprivation meditations. From what I understand it's one of the best ways to make it to that altered state. 

I've heard it is part of some advanced military training, but I can't verify that.  I've certainly tried to get it to happen again, but have never succeeded.  In fact I guess I have to be my skeptical self and say that my phone video wasn't really absolute proof that I hadn't dreamt it.  Perhaps I could have been dreaming and then somehow quickly transitioned to wakefulness without noticing.  I would have thought I would have gently run off the road if that had happened, though..

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