Science is a religion.

[Illyrius]

14 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Again - you don't understand science.

A claim requiers a proof. Is that what science says? I agree with science on that one, though it's basically a woo.

In this light I am doing the same thing you do. I claim something, but I don't offer anything to prove it. So it's 1:1.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Mr. Argon

[freetoroam]

59 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

I do it even now. My PC runs on faith, though I wouldn't have one without science, and it's fun. Science is fun too, in a woo-ish way.

Nah, thats nothing to do with faith, thats just a ****e pc. 

 

[Illyrius]

24 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Nah, thats nothing to do with faith, thats just a ****e pc. 

Don't tell anyone.

[freetoroam]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Don't tell anyone.

You can believe and have faith, your secret is safe with me. Shame i was not a scientist, i would have your pc on the slab table in my secret lab.

[Illyrius]

4 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

You can believe and have faith, your secret is safe with me. Shame i was not a scientist, i would have your pc on the slab table in my secret lab.

LOL

[jmccr8]

On 04/11/2017 at 5:20 AM, Opus Magnus said:

so, i guess you have faith in science.

you can disprove religion. It's mostly history, so you have to disprove the history. With the bible, there have been parts proven true however, like the temple ruins.

besides that, i guess it takes more intelligence to understand symbology. Like at the beginning of genesis.

however, there are scientific leaders, like religious leaders. Who vear off from facts to control with their opinions. Even suppressing other honest scientists.

to think christians cannot make good scientists is ignorant and naive. For over a thousand years they have been around, while atheists were rare. Today, there are many people of science that believe .

otherwise they appear as samael, claiming nothing exists above him because he refuses to look at it.

Where do you get athiests were rare? I would like to see some documentation.

jmccr8

[Ozymandias]

4 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

So, you admit you use faith then. I never came in to dispute science, i just understand it requires faith.

ozy, on the other hand, seems very doubtful. It doesn't make sense you could go very far with science if you can't even understand the catholic statues are idolatry.

Why do I seem doubtful? About what?

[Emma_Acid]

2 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

A claim requiers a proof. Is that what science says? I agree with science on that one, though it's basically a woo.

In this light I am doing the same thing you do. I claim something, but I don't offer anything to prove it. So it's 1:1.

OK, so we know where we stand, can you provide me with examples of accepted, every day science that is "woo" and an example of science you believe isn't?

I'm fascinated to know how you think an entire area like "science" is "basically woo" and yet here we are, living in a 21st century that would have been unimaginable during the last one (thanks to science).

[Illyrius]

58 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

I'm fascinated to know how you think an entire area like "science" is "basically woo" and yet here we are, living in a 21st century that would have been unimaginable during the last one (thanks to science).

Yes science has great accomplishments I agree on that, I'll refer to the other part of the post later, too lazy right now.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Mr. Argon

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Emma_Acid said:

and yet here we are, living in a 21st century that would have been unimaginable during the last one (thanks to science).

That's right.

And thanks to the maker and ruler of our universe (Jesus of Nazareth) who is responsible for everything that science is discovering.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Will Due

[Opus Magnus]

4 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

I'll repeat myself:

Everyone experiences "faith" and "belief" in one way or another. This does not mean that science is built on faith or is analogous to religion.

well, I thought before you were saying faith has nothing to do with it, but it has a lot to do with it. Also, it seems hypothesises require some faith and belief to form.

when you try to get rid of religion, and replace it with science, or what you call science. Then the science starts to become religious. Something like reactive force.

religion is far from blind, except from those who don't know their own religious books and practise them.

[Opus Magnus]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Why do I seem doubtful? About what?

because in another thread you've said the catholic church doesn't practice idolatry on a large scale. Ignoring the iconoclast battle in church, and a large chunk of the literal bible. 

Not understanding the idolatry makes your judgement seem doubtful.

[Ozymandias]

3 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

because in another thread you've said the catholic church doesn't practice idolatry on a large scale. Ignoring the iconoclast battle in church, and a large chunk of the literal bible. 

Not understanding the idolatry makes your judgement seem doubtful.

Some comments on this:

(1) if you think the RC church practices idolatry then it is your judgement that is unsound.

(2) what on earth has this got to do with your barmy contention that science is a religion?

Please make an effort to stay on topic and stop making ad hominem comments. They are the last refuge of someone who has no argument.

[Opus Magnus]

13 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Some comments on this:

(1) if you think the RC church practices idolatry then it is your judgement that is unsound.

(2) what on earth has this got to do with your barmy contention that science is a religion?

Please make an effort to stay on topic and stop making ad hominem comments. They are the last refuge of someone who has no argument.

lol, sure, man, but you're the one who aggressed me first on both threads. Also you brought it up.

i guess you'll just have to take it up with Jesus Christ, as he says in revelation against the idolatry of the seven churches. Also the rest of the bible, and history a.d. As some of my brothers before my time were martyred and shed their blood for this very cause.

not just me understanding this, it's the 10 commandments.

[Emma_Acid]

19 hours ago, Will Due said:

That's right.

And thanks to the maker and ruler of our universe (Jesus of Nazareth) who is responsible for everything that science is discovering.

 

 

In your opinion. Its a belief that doesn't get us very far these days.

[Emma_Acid]

18 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

well, I thought before you were saying faith has nothing to do with it, but it has a lot to do with it. Also, it seems hypothesises require some faith and belief to form

You're talking as if there is only one definition of "faith". A hypothesis might need "faith" that a subatomic particle acts in a certain way, but this is a very different sort of faith to one which holds that the son of god is on his way back to make sure people don't m********e on a Sunday or whatever it is he cares about this week.

18 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

when you try to get rid of religion, and replace it with science, or what you call science. Then the science starts to become religious. Something like reactive force.

Stating over and over again doesn't make it true. There is nothing analogous between religion and science, no matter how much you push it.

[Will Due]

49 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Its a belief that doesn't get us very far these days.

Well, somebody has to rule the universe. Why not its maker?

It's nice that he became one of us too, not to mention there are millions of other worlds he could have lived on.

Why this one?

And the biggest question of all, how did this impact the economy of our world which resulted in those scientific developments we enjoy so much, and how does his incarnation as one of us, forever increase the eternal destiny potential for each of us, as a person?

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Will Due

[jmccr8]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Well, somebody has to rule the universe. Why not its maker?

It's nice that he became one of us too, not to mention there are millions of other worlds he could have lived on.

Why this one?

And the biggest question of all, how did this impact the economy of our world which resulted in those scientific developments we enjoy so much, and how does his incarnation as one of us, forever increase the eternal destiny potential for each of us, as a person?

 

 

Will,

It would be difficult to assess what any groups inhabiting other planets believe, did god just mess up here or does Christ have to live and die on every inhabited planet? I would find it highly unlikely that one could claim to know what evolved elsewhere when many don"t understand what's going on here, and the claims of god and what he is said to have said are man-made. As such they cannot be taken as all encompassing to apply on a universal scale, nowhere is there any religious doctrine that tells us that there is life anywhere but here. New age channeled material is just more man made illusion as well because it cannot be verified.

jmccr8

[Will Due]

21 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Will,

It would be difficult to assess what any groups inhabiting other planets believe, did god just mess up here or does Christ have to live and die on every inhabited planet? I would find it highly unlikely that one could claim to know what evolved elsewhere when many don"t understand what's going on here, and the claims of god and what he is said to have said are man-made. As such they cannot be taken as all encompassing to apply on a universal scale, nowhere is there any religious doctrine that tells us that there is life anywhere but here. New age channeled material is just more man made illusion as well because it cannot be verified.

jmccr8

Thanks for stating your opinion and belief jmccr8.

Someday soon I hope, the truth about all of these things will become manifest in a way no one is expecting and can't deny.

It could happen soon, or it may be a long way off.

But I assure you, it's in the works. We've been contacted about all of these developments already, in the form of a document that proclaims these things, unambiguously. 

It's there for the reading and like any newspaper article, it's up to you to read it or not.

http://bigbluebook.org/

Here are the opening words of this document:

Quote

 

IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia—that being the name of your world—there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion, I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Will Due

[Opus Magnus]

1 hour ago, Emma_Acid said:

You're talking as if there is only one definition of "faith". A hypothesis might need "faith" that a subatomic particle acts in a certain way, but this is a very different sort of faith to one which holds that the son of god is on his way back to make sure people don't m********e on a Sunday or whatever it is he cares about this week.

Stating over and over again doesn't make it true. There is nothing analogous between religion and science, no matter how much you push it.

well, you're repeating yourself too, don't be a hypocrite. I try to at least add some new info in each post.

i'm not saying science is religion, but it may act like one if people order it that way. If religion is abolished, i really doubt science can uphold the moral code in the governments like religion has. It's the human condition to do these things.

it seems like to me you are confused as to what christianity actually means, lacking the scriptures, because it's not a simple structure.

Other accepted religions too.

and, also the nature of babel on wording.

[jmccr8]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Thanks for stating your opinion and belief jmccr8.

Someday soon I hope, the truth about all of these things will become manifest in a way no one is expecting.

It could happen soon, or it may be a long way off.

But I assure you, it's in the works. We've been contacted about all of these developments already, in the form of a document that proclaims these things, unambiguously. 

It's there for the reading and like any newspaper article, it's up to you to read it or not.

http://bigbluebook.org/

 

 

Will, 

I can appreciate your faith in the Blue Book but it is written by men no different than any other book written by men because the source cannot be validated.

I discussions like this for me it is not about making someone changing their belief system. Understanding why or what brought a person to their choice is what interests me. I came to the choice I made because of what I saw and experienced both in the secular and indoctrinated faiths that people profess.

There are to many limitations in thinking in both aspects for me and many times constructive actions are restricted by limited thinking which is why I say I answer to myself first even if I know that I will possibly have to suffer the judgements of others because I understand the consequences of not doing what is right. My concept of god is that it gave me the ability to think, act and change myself and my environment. Each of us has a unique environment an many people have a hard time thinking outside of their own and cannot understand what motivates people that are other than themselves.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

20 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

well, you're repeating yourself too, don't be a hypocrite. I try to at least add some new info in each post.

i'm not saying science is religion, but it may act like one if people order it that way. If religion is abolished, i really doubt science can uphold the moral code in the governments like religion has. It's the human condition to do these things.

it seems like to me you are confused as to what christianity actually means, lacking the scriptures, because it's not a simple structure.

Other accepted religions too.

and, also the nature of babel on wording.

Hmm, that is a very limited perspective on how humans interact. You do realize that humans have existed for hundreds of thousands to over a million years as interdependent social groups, long before the were religions. We have become the dominant species because we work as a group.

jmccr8 

[Will Due]

6 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Will, 

I can appreciate your faith in the Blue Book but it is written by men no different than any other book written by men because the source cannot be validated.

I discussions like this for me it is not about making someone changing their belief system. Understanding why or what brought a person to their choice is what interests me. I came to the choice I made because of what I saw and experienced both in the secular and indoctrinated faiths that people profess.

There are to many limitations in thinking in both aspects for me and many times constructive actions are restricted by limited thinking which is why I say I answer to myself first even if I know that I will possibly have to suffer the judgements of others because I understand the consequences of not doing what is right. My concept of god is that it gave me the ability to think, act and change myself and my environment. Each of us has a unique environment an many people have a hard time thinking outside of their own and cannot understand what motivates people that are other than themselves.

jmccr8

Jm,

That's why it's important to share these things with each other. 

It's not about belief jm, it's about information. Books are such a source.

But it's up to you to use God's gift to discern within what is real and what's not. 

The UB wasn't written by a man and if you would take the time to read it, it will become obvious that it wasn't. 

The UB does not include religious doctrine of any kind. There is no one involved with its presence in the world who is its guru. Nothing about it has anything to do with traditional religious conversion. It only reveals information. The kind we need in order to make sense of it all.

It is more like a newspaper than anything else. The kind you discard after reading it and gaining a new perspective on the day's current events.

But it is a long article. But total and comprehensive. 

With everything going on in the world today, coming apart at the seams, it lays the groundwork for blazing a personal, self derived trail in view.

You are right, in order to do this better, need for thinking outside the box is imperative. And reading it helps to do this optimally.

 

 

[Opus Magnus]

27 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hmm, that is a very limited perspective on how humans interact. You do realize that humans have existed for hundreds of thousands to over a million years as interdependent social groups, long before the were religions. We have become the dominant species because we work as a group.

jmccr8 

yeah, if you want to rip out one of the cornerstones of civilization, and have it all topple down. Then start over again like apes.

last i knew, there were signs of civilizations crashing, like losing their religion.

[jmccr8]

21 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Jm,

That's why it's important to share these things with each other. 

It's not about belief jm, it's about information. Books are such a source.

But it's up to you to use God's gift to discern within what is real and what's not. 

The UB wasn't written by a man and if you would take the time to read it, it will become obvious that it wasn't. 

The UB does not include religious doctrine of any kind. There is no one involved with its presence in the world who is its guru. Nothing about it has anything to do with traditional religious conversion. It only reveals information. The kind we need in order to make sense of it all.

It is more like a newspaper than anything else. The kind you discard after reading it and gaining a new perspective on the day's current events.

But it is a long article. But total and comprehensive. 

With everything going on in the world today, coming apart at the seams, it lays the groundwork for blazing a personal, self derived trail in view.

You are right, in order to do this better, need for thinking outside the box is imperative. And reading it helps to do this optimally.

 

 

Hi Will,

The world is always coming apart, it is the nature of generational perception to change that is why for some the end times prophecies seem real. We live and adapt because that is how our species survives change and challenges. If the UB includes Jesus as a part of it's teaching then it is using religious doctrine even if subliminally because Jesus is the New Testament.

What other Messiah like figures does the book use in reference to all of those other inhabited planets, if there is the same god then there should be free choice and sin for all of them is there one son that continuously dies on each planet or are there other sons.

jmccr8