Consciousness Without Brain Activity.

[+Sherapy]

3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I'm not scared, I'm just a little PO'd and fed up. Not at you, at just a certain philosophy out there atm...

I disagree with you, but I respect your belifs and I do thank you for sharing.

I myself spent 2 years on and off dealing with hospice and hospice nurses when my step-dad was dying of cancer. He was the only real thing close to a father to me, so I totally understand the pain associated with it. I'm sorry you have to go through that, but the work you're doing is real special and I commend you for that.

Now I'mma go calm down with some cat videos on youtube or something. I wish you all the best of luck.

 

OMG! Hospice is a hard road. Big hugs to you. 

I might be getting out, as I feel so much I can't shut off it is great on the compassion end as it makes me very caring, but on the coping with the loss part it sucks, I feel the grief and loss just as intense and not having a god to pass the buck too makes it even harder. Honestly, I see the value in the god construct for some lines of work. 

At current, I am exploring ways to shut off, so don't commend me yet. 

Thank you for your kind words.

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

 

 

This ^ is exactly what I'm asking for. Just a bit of honesty of our own humanity. To not pretend like the reason we take the positions we do is solely for the sake of scientific evidence. We all have **** that we gotta deal with in life, that more often then not ends up shaping our own biases and our own conclusions. It's what makes us all human.

I just can't stand it when people would rather pretend to be robots or freaking vulcuns from star trek then to just admit that they're just as ****ing human as the rest of us.

Think about what you just wrote. Some of us seem like robots because life has made us jaded. There are those of us out there that never had a good hand dealt to us. These things carry weight in our psyche's. There is a limit to how much emotional and physical pain you can tolerate because you shut down. Just think about. 

There is a reason I spent years in the occult. A good reason.

Edited September 21, 2017 by XenoFish

[Aquila King]

8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hey hey hey this is a tough subject for us all let's not turn on each other it won't do anything productive or help.

You're absolutely right. At the end of the day I hold no real hard feeling towards the two of you. You two are two of my favorite members on here, and I'm genuinely sorry if I got a little carried away. I still hold by arguments, but they could've possibly been worded less harshly. So for that I'm sorry. Can we all just put this behind us? I'd hate to be the reason for another locked thread.

[Aquila King]

Dang, I keep posting behind everyone.  I'll try to catch up, I swear...

[XenoFish]

Just now, Aquila King said:

You're absolutely right. At the end of the day I hold no real hard feeling towards the two of you. You two are two of my favorite members on here, and I'm genuinely sorry if I got a little carried away. I still hold by arguments, but they could've possibly been worded less harshly. So for that I'm sorry. Can we all just put this behind us? I'd hate to be the reason for another locked thread.

All I can say it that it's sometimes best, to just not think about it. If you spend too much time thinking about the afterlife, you get there without having lived life.

[Aquila King]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Think about what you just wrote. Some of us seem like robots because life has made us jaded. There are those of out there that never had a good hand dealt to us. These things carry weight in our psyche's. There is a limit to how much emotional and physical pain you can tolerate because you shut down. Just think about. 

I do take that seriously Xeno. I'm not at all trying to discount anything you've been through. I just wish for people to be open and honest about their humanity, the good, bad, and ugly. Which thankfully you do from time to time and I appreciate that.

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

All I can say it that it's sometimes best, to just not think about it. If you spend too much time thinking about the afterlife, you get there without having lived life.

I actually agree. I believe in an afterlife but the actual substance of what it is and how it operates, I'm completely agnostic about. It can be quite scary honestly not knowing what's ahead of you, but nonetheless I trek on.

[XenoFish]

The thing is we are all going to die one day, that is when the truth will be fully revealed. From my own personal experience its just sleep. That's it. So I don't worry about it. Living life is more important to me that worrying about what I can't control, death. 

[Wes4747]

Well.. Glad yall got that out. Point of this thread is not hope, in my humble opinion, but curiosity.

We all have to pass our time doing something, or not... Why not indulge curiosity? To hope one way or another seems silly, hope will not change what is- but to entertain theories or attempt to find proof one way or the other seems an interesting task to take on.

I just hate to see converaations go dead because of critics... Sure its a neceasary balance that keeps the site healthy, but alot of people seem unwilling to share their experience.

[LightAngel]

5 hours ago, Wes4747 said:

Why not indulge curiosity?

Exactly 

[LightAngel]

9 hours ago, Wes4747 said:

alot of people seem unwilling to share their experience.

 

This forum is moderated in an intelligent and mature way, so maybe more of us will share our experiences later.

People need to feel safe before they want to share something very private. I can of course only speak for myself, I'm not here to fight with people, I'm here to share thoughts and ideas. - I love living my life............. and death is also a part of life!

If people want to give constructive criticism then I listen, but if they start psychological projection then the conversation is over from my side. (This isn't about anybody who posted in this topic because the discussion in here turned out to be a constructive one after all, so I didn't report anybody )

 

 

 

 

[Rlyeh]

12 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Giving physical science undue attention on this subject is really scientism which is (per the dictionary) excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques

There is no reason why science shouldn't examine this subject, but because it undermines your magical thinking it's "scientism". 

[I'mConvinced]

The video shown in the OP was from 2008 and we have learned much since then.  I'm not aware of any studies where people were conclusively proved to be experiencing an NDE whilst also having their brains scanned in such detail that we could tell if there was or wasn't any activity at all. I would love to see the paper published on this and I'm happy to admit being wrong and I'd be fascinated to read it.

All we can say about an NDE is that it is a subjective experience and an interesting phenomena.  We do not know if the person reporting the NDE actually experienced it as they regained conciouness or during unconciousness.  They say it happened while they were unconcious yet how could they possibly know? If you have a dream during your sleep when you wake in the morning do you know what time of night you had the dream? Or simply that it happened at some point during the night? Has no one had a dream so real it appears to still be a part of your waking reality as you emerge from slumber? 

The brain also plays tricks with time perception & memory in moments of extreme danger - I would think nearly dying might qualify.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by I'mConvinced

[I'mConvinced]

13 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

We have to rely on anecdotal data

You have to rely on anecdotal data.

[XenoFish]

We also have to consider that NDE claims often coincide within a Christian model, because of the cultural environment that the individuals are in. 

23 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

There is no reason why science shouldn't examine this subject, but because it undermines your magical thinking it's "scientism". 

Because when answers are found they often destroy magical thinking and do not confirm it. Seems the whole process is chemically driven.

53 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

If people want to give constructive criticism

Be careful what you wish for.

[Aquila King]

5 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

There is no reason why science shouldn't examine this subject, but because it undermines your magical thinking it's "scientism". 

No, it's materialism that undermines magical thinking. While technically this is loosely connected with materialism, scientism is a separate problem entirely.

While many materialists do in some form or another support scientism, materialism itself can't be explained through scientism because scientism itself is a faulty philosophy. The same problems scientism has in regards to spiritualism can be applied to materialism. It just so happens to be the case that scientism is purported more from materialists than anywhere else.

[Rlyeh]

4 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

No, it's materialism that undermines magical thinking. While technically this is loosely connected with materialism, scientism is a separate problem entirely.

While many materialists do in some form or another support scientism, materialism itself can't be explained through scientism because scientism itself is a faulty philosophy. The same problems scientism has in regards to spiritualism can be applied to materialism. It just so happens to be the case that scientism is purported more from materialists than anywhere else.

You tried this argument before. Everything you mention implies your problem is the scientific method, yet you continue to called it "materialism" as if you don't want to come off as anti-science.

[XenoFish]

37 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

No, it's materialism that undermines magical thinking. While technically this is loosely connected with materialism, scientism is a separate problem entirely.

While many materialists do in some form or another support scientism, materialism itself can't be explained through scientism because scientism itself is a faulty philosophy. The same problems scientism has in regards to spiritualism can be applied to materialism. It just so happens to be the case that scientism is purported more from materialists than anywhere else.

Magical thinking is when you try to connect two things that have no connects. In the occult this can be seen by those who connect a ritual to a results which is just confirmation bias. There is no connection to wishing really hard and something happening. 

I'm going to separate this for you really easy. Spirituality goes into the basket with psychology, which is concerned with thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. You've mentioned two words that I really hate that always come from the more esoteric ones when they start losing and argument, scientism and materialism. 

This is from the link I posted.

After this Horace Miner's fellow anthropologists got the hint and actually looked at magic: they discovered the only real differences between the magical world-view and science was that magic didn't have a self-correcting mechanism nor a set procedure for determining which concept best fit what was being observed.

Miner showed that slapping the "magic" label on something was the lazy way to do things.

Edited September 22, 2017 by XenoFish

[papageorge1]

5 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

There is no reason why science shouldn't examine this subject, but because it undermines your magical thinking it's "scientism". 

Where did I say science shouldn't investigate this subject?

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Where did I say science shouldn't investigate this subject?

Rlyeh isn't even addressing you on that. Seriously, do you think every comment is direct towards you?

[papageorge1]

5 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

You have to rely on anecdotal data.

Yes, an intelligent and objective analysis of anecdotal data can affect my worldview.

[Rlyeh]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Where did I say science shouldn't investigate this subject?

"Giving physical science undue attention on this subject..."

Implying science has unwarranted attention to the brain and consciousness.  

[papageorge1]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Rlyeh isn't even addressing you on that. Seriously, do you think every comment is direct towards you?

He was addressing that to me in post #86 Mr Fish!!! 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

He was addressing that to me in post #86 Mr Fish!!! 

Don't start with me Papa Smurf!!! Today Isn't going to be your day if you do.

Edited September 22, 2017 by XenoFish

[Aquila King]

35 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

You tried this argument before. Everything you mention implies your problem is the scientific method, yet you continue to called it "materialism" as if you don't want to come off as anti-science.

That's demonstrably false. No where did I even hint at any such thing.

It's ironic. You're making a claim with no basis in reality whilst asserting that others are doing that very same thing instead.

[papageorge1]

3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

"Giving physical science undue attention on this subject..."

Implying science has unwarranted attention to the brain and consciousness.  

Ahh. You have changed the tune now. I'll stand by what I said.