Consciousness Without Brain Activity.

[White Crane Feather]

14 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nothing to do with comfort. I'm honestly not sure how you would infer that. 

As I said earlier though, that's old information, the AWARE project has evidence to suggest that consciousness continues to record the outside world post mortem. 

As Parnia tells the Independent, death is scientifically defined by the heart no longer beating and blood flow being cut off from the brain. “Technically, that's how you get the time of death — it's all based on the moment when the heart stops,” Parnia states. “Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.” Additionally, “you lose all your brain stem reflexes — your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone,” the doctor adds. As this research suggests, there may, however, be additional brain energy that happens immediately post-mortem.

https://www.bustle.com/p/your-brain-may-continue-to-function-after-your-death-long-enough-for-you-to-be-aware-of-it-studies-suggest-2944724

A quick surge of energy of that nature was detected in mice in one study. 

[White Crane Feather]

13 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Yeah, A., I have been on two jobs as a hospice caregiver ( terminal patients) and have seen the death process up close and personal, there is no way I can argue for conciousness after witnessing this. 

Once the kidneys shut down, the death rattle ensues at this point there is no conciousness as we know it, then comes death

Making peace with death is a process, it can take a lifetime, many use comforting  tales of heavens and having hope man will find out there is an afterlife after all, it is commonplace and to be expected, coming to terms with ones mortality is probably the biggest challenge we face. I work with people who know they are dieing who have made peace with death and the interesting part is god constructs and faithing are more for the living, not those actually dieing. IMHO. 

Near death is just that it means not dead, therefore conciousness is present. 

Personally, I wouldn’t waste my time on this topic. 

It's a worthy topic. There is plenty of circumstantial, anicdotal, and emerging empirical data that makes it worthy.

Im with you on the dieing process. If there is no continuation, being dead is going to be just like before you were born. I don't worry about what happened when the dinosaurs were here or when Custer made his last stand. Likewise the entire universe will pass away while we are gone so in cosmological standards we are all pretty much living and dieing at the same time. Enjoy the gift of life now seems to be the lesson.

Still. The universe/existence is a very peculiar place with an infinite a mount of possibility. There are a lot of very logical reasons why we will probably live again possibly the exact same life or continue in indefinatly in some way. In fact, the scenario where we only live or exist exactly one time is probably the least likely. All eventualities would tend to avoid such a scenario. 

[White Crane Feather]

On 6/18/2018 at 5:44 AM, XenoFish said:

No. You and others are only looking for what will confirm your currently held beliefs. I half expect quantum woo to be somewhere in this thread if it isn't already. Try looking in the opposite direct. It might help.

That's funny, I feel the same way about your attitude. I especially like when creativity is used to confirm bias. 

[+Sherapy]

27 minutes ago, White Crane Feather said:

It's a worthy topic. There is plenty of circumstantial, anicdotal, and emerging empirical data that makes it worthy.

Im with you on the dieing process. If there is no continuation, being dead is going to be just like before you were born. I don't worry about what happened when the dinosaurs were here or when Custer made his last stand. Likewise the entire universe will pass away while we are gone so in cosmological standards we are all pretty much living and dieing at the same time. Enjoy the gift of life now seems to be the lesson.

Still. The universe/existence is a very peculiar place with an infinite a mount of possibility. There are a lot of very logical reasons why we will probably live again possibly the exact same life or continue in indefinatly in some way. In fact, the scenario where we only live or exist exactly one time is probably the least likely. All eventualities would tend to avoid such a scenario. 

Logically anything is possible, and the brain is a wonderful crafter of tales, I have my own, then there is what is "really" possible, and at this time dead seems to be just that dead. 

[White Crane Feather]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Logically anything is possible, and the brain is a wonderful crafter of tales, I have my own, then there is what is "really" possible, and at this time dead seems to be just that dead. 

"Seems" isn't good enough. In a non spiritual existence there is no possibility of true eternal death. The arrangements of matter are finite and eventually they will repeat. The only way you don't live forever in one form another is if some godlike consciousnes says you don't and does something to prevent it.

Here is the golden ratio. Stretch it out long enough, and what are the odds you will find your birthday, phone number, and street all right next to each other eventually? A logical and empirical look at the world demands eternal life in some form. Even if that life is a deterministic constant... (an eternal repeat)

1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286213544862270526046281890
244970720720418939113748475408807538689175212663386222353693179318006076672635
443338908659593958290563832266131992829026788067520876689250171169620703222104
321626954862629631361443814975870122034080588795445474924618569536486444924104
432077134494704956584678850987433944221254487706647809158846074998871240076521
705751797883416625624940758906970400028121042762177111777805315317141011704666
599146697987317613560067087480710131795236894275219484353056783002287856997829

Even in this short sequence, I found half my phone number. I bet our SSNs are attached to our credit card numbers in there somewhere too.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White Crane Feather

[+Sherapy]

15 minutes ago, White Crane Feather said:

"Seems" isn't good enough. In a non spiritual existence there is no possibility of true eternal death. The arrangements of matter are finite and eventually they will repeat. The only way you don't live forever in one form another is if some godlike consciousnes says you don't and does something to prevent it.

Here is the golden ratio. Stretch it out long enough, and what are the odds you will find your birthday, phone number, and street all right next to each other eventually? A logical and empirical look at the world demands eternal life in some form. Even if that life is a deterministic constant... (an eternal repeat)

1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286213544862270526046281890
244970720720418939113748475408807538689175212663386222353693179318006076672635
443338908659593958290563832266131992829026788067520876689250171169620703222104
321626954862629631361443814975870122034080588795445474924618569536486444924104
432077134494704956584678850987433944221254487706647809158846074998871240076521
705751797883416625624940758906970400028121042762177111777805315317141011704666
599146697987317613560067087480710131795236894275219484353056783002287856997829

 

 

WCF, if it works better for you to script in eternal life to your story, I say go for it. For me, I am good with I live and then I die. 

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I am good with I live and then I die. 

It really doesn't need to be more complicated than that. 

[White Crane Feather]

7 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

WCF, if it works better for you to script in eternal life to your story, I say go for it. For me, I am good with I live and then I die. 

I'm not scripting Sherapy. I'm demonstrating to you that it is logically inevitable in most ways of looking at the world. Especially a deterministic universe and defianantly a random one. It is you who are assuming. In fact it is only in the Abrahamic god belief that any kind of eternal death exists. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White Crane Feather

[White Crane Feather]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

It really doesn't need to be more complicated than that. 

It dosnt need to be anything. What it is however is an entirely different story than what some decideds it needs to be. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White Crane Feather

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, White Crane Feather said:

That's funny, I feel the same way about your attitude. I especially like when creativity is used to confirm bias. 

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to not give a damn about it. I have already had one incident today that didn't work out to well. What you choose to believe is up to you. I'm not playing this game with you, not today. I'm not playing it with anyone any more. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, White Crane Feather said:

It dosnt need to be anything. What it is however is an entirely different story than what some decideds it needs to be. 

No one knows the story, we're just characters playing parts. Why is it so difficult to accept a potentially finite existence? 

[White Crane Feather]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to not give a damn about it. I have already had one incident today that didn't work out to well. What you choose to believe is up to you. I'm not playing this game with you, not today. I'm not playing it with anyone any more. 

Well I do give a dam xeno. You seem like a decently intelligent guy, but there are a lot of signs of depression. We have been talking about brain chemistry a lot on this thread. Have you cosidsred the possibility that you may be suffering from depression. Depending on what is really going on, a simple visit to the doctor could make a world of difference. 

[White Crane Feather]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No one knows the story, we're just characters playing parts. Why is it so difficult to accept a potentially finite existence? 

 

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No one knows the story, we're just characters playing parts. Why is it so difficult to accept a potentially finite existence? 

It's not difficult to accept. There simply is no logical path to it. Why should I believe in something that is naturally impossible given what we know about nature?

Edited June 21, 2018 by White Crane Feather

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, White Crane Feather said:

 

It's not difficult to accept. There simply is no logical path to it. Why should I believe in something that is naturally impossible given what we know about nature?

Why do you believe in astral projection when you can lucid dream? Why do people believe they get abducted by aliens or see demons when they are startled awake and have sleep paralysis? When you start to look for reasonable answers to things, yes it does take the 'magic' out of it, but it shows just how powerful and amazing our brains are. Is that a bad things?

I used to be a major fluffy bunny when it came to magick. Until I was forced to look in the opposite direction and I found that what I thought I was doing, wasn't what I was actually doing. But I learned. It's not scary to learn, yes it might shatter a few illusions along the way, but in the end it worth it. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by XenoFish

[White Crane Feather]

I understand. Well.... I think I have done a pretty good job of showing that it's at least likely. There is hope xeno even if it's not an afterlife. I'm sure you know this, but what you experiencing is an illness. Everyone gets sick ocassionally, and a good doctor can get those nurotransmitters and serotonin levels fixed up and the world can be a different place for you.  There is hope xeno. And if you are feeling that way, then why not give it a shot. 

[White Crane Feather]

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why do you believe in astral projection when you can lucid dream? Why do people believe they get abducted by aliens or see demons when they are startled awake and have sleep paralysis? When you start to look for reasonable answers to things, yes it does take the 'magic' out of it, but it shows just how powerful and amazing our brains are. Is that a bad things?

I used to be a major fluffy bunny when it came to magick. Until I was forced to look in the opposite direction and I found that what I thought I was doing, wasn't what I was actually doing. But I learned. It's not scary to learn, yes it might shatter a few illusions along the way, but in the end it worth it. 

I have my reasons for believing in certain realities, but they are not based on "fluffy" thoughts. I'm very aware of what the brain is capable of. In fact many of the fluffy bunny types end up not liking me because I can tell they are faking certain things. I'm versed enough in science and psychology to understand my own biases and in many ways this allows me to walk on both sides of the fence. At the end of the day, if you stub your toe on a chair it's hard not to believe the chair dosnt exist. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White Crane Feather

[XenoFish]

I have a therapist, she's been there for me since 2013. When I have those dark days and those midnight moments she gives me an ear. Like a sister almost, a woman I love and respect as a person. Even today she has helped me and listened to me, even been hardnosed about things to me. But there are those around here. Those of faith who are vipers, I have no respect for them. While you and I have butted heads. You actually seem like a decent person. I will try to bite my tongue out of casual respect. Do not take me critically. As I am only voicing an opinion. And I am very tired. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by XenoFish

[XenoFish]

Just now, White Crane Feather said:

I have my reasons for believing in certain realities, but they are not based on "fluffy" thoughts. I'm very aware of what the brain is capable of. In fact many of the fluffy bunny types end up not liking me because I can tell they are faking certain things. I'm versed enough in science and psychology to understand my own biases and in many ways this allows me to walk on both sides of the fence. At the end of the day, if you stub your toe on a chair it's hard not to believe the chair dosnt exist. 

I can respect this. My own experience dictate my views too and I am hyper critical of myself because of them. Perhaps too much. 

[White Crane Feather]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I have therapist, she's been there for me since 2013. When I have those dark days and those midnight moments she gives me an ear. Like a sister almost, a woman I love and respect as a person. Even today she has helped me and listened to me, even been hardnosed about things to me. But there are those around here. Those of faith who are vipers, I have no respect for them. While you and I have butted heads. You actually seem like a decent person. I will try to bite my tongue out of casual respect. Do not take me critically. As I am only voicing an opinion. And I am very tired. 

Understandable. I also have a bad habit of lashing out when I feel like someone lashes at me. I'll do better.  

[XenoFish]

Thank you WCF it feels nice resolving things without sour words and bitter attitudes. 

[White Crane Feather]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Thank you WCF it feels nice resolving things without sour words and bitter attitudes. 

Pm me anytime if you want to talk. I mean it. 

[ChrLzs]

3 hours ago, White Crane Feather said:

... I claim the same thing with no other proof other than I can teach someone to do it to see for themselves. 

WCF, would be so kind as to explain what it is, exactly, that you teach?  I'd be interested in the basic techniques you use, but also the actual outcomes.  When you use the term teach, then clearly you imply that something the person couldn't do before, they can now do.  What, precisely, is that 'something'?

[White Crane Feather]

1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

WCF, would be so kind as to explain what it is, exactly, that you teach?  I'd be interested in the basic techniques you use, but also the actual outcomes.  When you use the term teach, then clearly you imply that something the person couldn't do before, they can now do.  What, precisely, is that 'something'?

That something would be the powerful feelings of floating out of ones body and other things. You may not believe this, but there are powerful vibrating energy sensations that flow through ones body upon certain trance levels. They are also controllable. They also come with intense noises. This is not a me thing, this is a universal ocurrance. Shortly after or during these sensations one can exit the body ( or at least to the meditator seem to exit the body). 

It's easy for people who don't understand these levels of concousness to write it off. Hell even I do ocassionally when someone starts to get a little to wooish because being adept, I can tell they are exaggerating or even lying. I try to give the benefit of the doubt though because my stories are outlandish as well. 

These states have been used by shaman for many thousands of years for many things. Psycho therapy, locating game, deciding which plants to use for medacine etc etc. sure some are fakers, but some are real. Now I'm not sugesging at the moment that it's mystical. Indeed there may be deep psychological archetypes that we are dealing with, and having achieved increasingly genius like feats in these altered states of consciousness, I can see why some things can seem like magic. 

You would consider it a form of lucid dreaming. In fact the term used for it is Wake induced lucid dream (WILD) which is closely linked to a hypnogogic state. Its easy to stop right there unless you have experienced what is possible in these states. At the very least it provides a conscious access to your unconscious mind that is unlike most people can fathom. I suspect even if it's not spiritual in nature, these altered states play a very important part in the depths of what we are. 

I first started teaching people to do it because they can literally jump out of their bodies and confront sleep paralysis 'demons', and I know how much these people suffer and what I  can show them can relieve them of that suffering. It's how I first discovered how to do all this all on my own. I have been tormented since I was a child with these 'attacks' until I learned how to fight back. No doctors, no psychologists, no medications could help. Only my will, and the aid of other beings of light. ( though you would consider them constructs or archetypes only manifested in very real ways.)

My own personal experience including some things that are absolutely amazing has me convinced it's not just dreaming. Things I cannot deni, and I'm pretty sure I'm not insane. 

As for methodology I wrote a tutorial in the astral projection thread pinned at the top of dreams and concousness here years ago. Have a look. Since I started helping people, I have been able to teach 100s of people to take control over their 'attacks'. Some are reading this thread as we speak. 

It's not woo chrlz. These things exist. Wether it's of a spiritual nature or some deep part of our evolutionary psychology is something that one has to decide for themselves. When I was really active helping people I made a few videos. Trust me. Not looking to be famous or make money. I just wanted to help people. 

 

 

 

[MauriOra]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Wow I guess you missed that thread. I know I'm depressed in fact I'm suicidally depressed and thanks to two jerks on the forum I almost ended my life today. 

I am Sorry ..

And if thats what it takes for you to end life .. Then Xeno, stay off the topics because you can't deal with the outcomes .. I'm sure your Psychiatrist will tell you about "Triggers" .. And possibly how to Understand them, or Avoid it all together .. 

I wish for you to get Whole .. 

Peace to you Xeno .

Donna ..xx

[MauriOra]

4 hours ago, White Crane Feather said:

 There is a lot of talk about a spiritual ( astral) cord that connects people to their astral body. I haven't seen it, though others claim it's there. To be honest, I find a lot of people claiming to be able to separate are actually probably full of ****, but who am I to judge because I claim the same thing with no other proof other than I can teach someone to do it to see for themselves. 

Atamarie White Crane Feather ..

Thankyou for your Input .. You have definitely given many people food for thought ..

Yes there is a thread .. We are Light, or Energetic Beings, In a Body, this is Our Life Line and Telephone Line to the Divine .. 

Hell yes, Some ppl are telling bullshiz, Its the In thing, to be all Spiritual and Fluffy etc , It's just an Accessory  like a New pair of Nike's or Gold watch .. 

And you can most definitely tell, who is making it up .. 

That also is a good thing, Mentally, because, it allows the Mind to stay open from the thoughts, however, when your in denial, Spirit know .. 

And there really isn't a fast track to Spirituality .. Your either in Attunement or Your not . and its available to Everyone, But ... Free Will of the Being .. They must want to learn .. 

Peace to you and yours ..

Donna ..MauriOra.. xx