Toronto Police Handcuff, Sedate 8 Year Old

[+OverSword]

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A Toronto-area mother is searching for answers after she says her son was taken to a hospital alone in the back of a police car, placed in restraints and injected with a sedative because he was acting out on the first day of school.

Debbie Kiroff says her eight-year-old, who loves cooking, Lego and swimming, has behavioural issues and a severe learning disability. So when the principal at Holland Landing Public School phoned her on Sept. 5 to say his behaviour was "escalating," it didn't come as a shock. 

 

Source

This is just........No words. 

[SHaYap]

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[Dark_Grey]

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Debbie Kiroff says her eight-year-old, who loves cooking, Lego and swimming, has behavioural issues and a severe learning disability. So when the principal at Holland Landing Public School phoned her on Sept. 5 to say his behaviour was "escalating," it didn't come as a shock. 

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But when he disappeared from teachers' sight on the first day, Kiroff says the school called police. What happened next has her sounding the alarm about what she says is a lack of supports for children with difficulties, and she's left with questions about the appropriateness of both the school's and hospital's response.

It all began with an argument with another boy over who should be able to use a computer. 

"He's running around right now, he's got a ruler, he's climbing this, climbing that," Kiroff says the principal told her, asking her to come pick her son up.

Kiroff says she works for Canada Post and had a truck full of packages she had to unload first. In the meantime, she says, she sent her daughter, who had her baby with her, to the school.

While her daughter made her way over, the principal called and said the eight-year-old was running off of school property, says Kiroff.

By the time she got there, it was too late. 

"Mom, they've already got him in the police car. They're taking him to the hospital because he's too angry," she says her daughter told her on the phone.

Kiroff's son was taken to Southlake Regional Health Centre. She says she had to wait 15 to 20 minutes before being allowed inside. 

"Then the lady comes out and says, 'I just want to talk to you before we go in ... Did you hear your son screaming? He was out of control. The whole hospital could hear him.

"'I just wanted to let you know that we had to restrain him … and also inject him with a sedative,'" Kiroff says a staff member told her. 

Kiroff says she was seething inside but simply asked, "Oh, you don't need my consent for that?"

She says she was told the hospital didn't need parental consent, as long as there was an extreme concern for safety.

Hospital staff confirmed to CBC Toronto that restraints are used in "extreme situations" as a short-term intervention to protect a patient.

Major, major misunderstanding. I sympathize with both sides...poor kid 

[aztek]

Canadian cops take lessons from us cops, wonderful, the cancer is spreading.

[+OverSword]

23 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Major, major misunderstanding. I sympathize with both sides...poor kid 

Any doctor that injects an eight year old to sedate him because he's throwing a temper tantrum....again, no words.  Unbelievable.  And apparently they did this while the mother is in the waiting room?  Why not just hand the brat over to her to deal with it?  Hope she brings a law suit against the hospital, as it's pretty hard to believe a child in restraints (for ****s sake that is unbelievable in itself) is a danger to himself or others.  They just didn't want to hear him.  No sympathy from me. 

[simplybill]

I agree with the school employees, the police and the hospital employees. I'm familiar with the behaviors described in the article, and I can vouch for how dangerous a child with emotional disturbances can be toward other children and adults. Children who exhibit violent behavior toward other children should be educated in a different facility than non-violent children, until the violent behaviors are controlled through therapy or proper medication.    

[aztek]

yea, imagine the damage crying 2 year old can do, better shoot him, before he kills dozens, and knocks down buildings

Edited September 21, 2017 by aztek

[Dark_Grey]

59 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Any doctor that injects an eight year old to sedate him because he's throwing a temper tantrum....again, no words.  Unbelievable.  And apparently they did this while the mother is in the waiting room?  Why not just hand the brat over to her to deal with it?  Hope she brings a law suit against the hospital, as it's pretty hard to believe a child in restraints (for ****s sake that is unbelievable in itself) is a danger to himself or others.  They just didn't want to hear him.  No sympathy from me. 

Lots of miscommunication. It seems like the Police and possibly the hospital didn't know the kid had disabilities? It's like cops shooting a deaf guy cause he didn't hear the order to "put down the weapon". Does it excuse the offending party? Absolutely not, but it is something to consider here.

[+and-then]

24 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea, imagine the damage crying 2 year old can do, better shoot him, before he kills dozens, and knocks down buildings

I think it sounds like they overreacted but just for the record, when I was 8, I weighed about 150lbs and was 5'9, strong as a bull.  If this child really was in full tantrum mode he could easily have harmed himself or others.  It was the school that sedated him, not the cops.  Unless they have a medical professional that can diagnose and order such meds, that policy is crazy!

[aztek]

wow, that is a lot. 

normally 8 years old weights about 60 and a bit over 4 feet. 

his mother was in the hospital when they gave him a shot, they could have just brought her over to him and it would be over. 

 

[travelnjones]

10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Lots of miscommunication. It seems like the Police and possibly the hospital didn't know the kid had disabilities? It's like cops shooting a deaf guy cause he didn't hear the order to "put down the weapon". Does it excuse the offending party? Absolutely not, but it is something to consider here.

Disabilities removed from the situation the authorities were beyond the pale.  We aren't talking unjust we are talking evil.  He needed a ****ing hug

[Dark_Grey]

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

his mother was in the hospital when they gave him a shot, they could have just brought her over to him and it would be over. 

Yeah I'm confused about this part. The Hospital seemed to know she was there but at what point did she arrive? A lot could have happened while she was en route from work

[aztek]

Just now, Dark_Grey said:

Yeah I'm confused about this part. The Hospital seemed to know she was there but at what point did she arrive? A lot could have happened while she was en route from work

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Kiroff's son was taken to Southlake Regional Health Centre. She says she had to wait 15 to 20 minutes before being allowed inside. 

"Then the lady comes out and says, 'I just want to talk to you before we go in ... Did you hear your son screaming? He was out of control. The whole hospital could hear him.

 

 

[simplybill]

It's a sad combination. A mother that refuses to admit to herself that her offspring is flawed, a child that already has learned the intimidation factor of weapons and who doesn't respond to normal discipline, and a school administration forced to pretend that special-needs children will adapt better if their special needs are considered normal. 

[rashore]

42 minutes ago, and then said:

I think it sounds like they overreacted but just for the record, when I was 8, I weighed about 150lbs and was 5'9, strong as a bull.  If this child really was in full tantrum mode he could easily have harmed himself or others.  It was the school that sedated him, not the cops.  Unless they have a medical professional that can diagnose and order such meds, that policy is crazy!

The school didn't sedate him. The police took him from school grounds to the hospital, and the hospital restrained and sedated him.

[aztek]

Just now, simplybill said:

It's a sad combination. A mother that refuses to admit to herself that her offspring is flawed, a child that already has learned the intimidation factor of weapons and who doesn't respond to normal discipline, and a school administration forced to pretend that special-needs children will adapt better if their special needs are considered normal. 

she did say he is a runner, he runs to spend his energy. what intimidating factor of weapons???? there is no mention he used ruler as weapon, or intimidated anyone,  just ran and climbed.

[simplybill]

34 minutes ago, aztek said:

she did say he is a runner, he runs to spend his energy. what intimidating factor of weapons???? there is no mention he used ruler as weapon, or intimidated anyone,  just ran and climbed.

You're correct, the facts as presented don't warrant the conclusions I've come to. However, personal experience has given me insights that a casual reader might be unaware of.  

Edited September 21, 2017 by simplybill
Clarification

[Ashotep]

Says this was the first day of school.  I can imagine this kids behavior would have made for a heck of a first day.  Of course I didn't witness his behavior but I can imagine him getting pretty wild so I have a hard time faulting the school.  These kids need to be in special schools that are experienced in dealing with these type of kids.  A normal teacher just isn't qualified.  

Shouldn't have to wait for a year to get help for kids like this one.

[aztek]

or maybe take him to gymnasium, or stadium and have him run and get tired, and he'll quiet down, it works great with dogs.

[Paranormal Panther]

There are many stories like this one. Police and teachers overreact more now than they did in the past. It's like there has been a huge decrease in common sense since 9/11. I collect stories like this, and this event is just part of a larger societal trend. A little girl is treated like a threat because she has a pink plastic bubble gun. Some little boys are treated like threats because they fashion guns out of fingers or Pop-Tarts. Some administrators treat aspirin possession like heroin possession. Some cops even "bust" lemonade stands if they're "unlicensed"!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

9 hours ago, aztek said:

yea, imagine the damage crying 2 year old can do, better shoot him, before he kills dozens, and knocks down buildings

Sadly, it's not that easy Aztek. I've been in situations where if things went one way rather than the other (which, thank God they didn't) there could have been serious harm done by a child to me. Now, I'm just shy of six foot, and fatter than I should be and stronger and faster than I look. I'm neither a pushover nor easily intimidated.

One time, This one child was throwning chairs that weigh just over a kilogram. He was nine. He threw a haymaker at me that, because it didn't connect with my jaw, sent him flying. He was utterly, inconsolably, uncommunicatively furious. I was terrified for him, for the other kids and finally for myself. 

Another time, one child attempted to stab another in the back with a pair of scissors and if it wasn't for me grabbing their wrist they'd have done so. They were six. 

 

Children can "snap" as easily as adults, in fact, they snap easier because they're experiencing BIG emotions but lack the cognitive architecture and experience to handle them. Their emotions burn hot and fast, small things to us could trigger big things for them. The poor lad sounds like he's had a proper explosive brain snap. Schools that aren't equipped with trained staff to deal with such events and safe spaces for the kids to calm down in shouldn't be allowed to be open. 

[kartikg]

probably saved the child from injuring himself and others and maybe just maybe a lesson that throwing tantrums won't always work in his favor. 

[aztek]

or prbly gave him psychological trauma and make his mental state even worst,  he was not threatening anyone, he was running, i have 0 doubts he started screaming when cops cuffed him and used force.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

50 minutes ago, kartikg said:

probably saved the child from injuring himself and others and maybe just maybe a lesson that throwing tantrums won't always work in his favor. 

I doubt this was a "tantrum", tantrums don't last for the time this one did, they don't need sedation (and here is no chance that medical staff would have sedated him unless he was in complete distress, nor the school call the police unless it was a serious event). This was an episode of something. This was "the child needs help" (of the psychiatric and possibly medicational kind). I'd throw a "this was a "the school needs to be looked at closely"" into the equation as well.