Lilly Posted September 23, 2017 #26 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I suggest that everyone think about how their employers would react if you were to come into the workplace and proceed to 'express yourself politically' in a manner that upset other workers and put off the paying customers. Yeah, you'd get fired. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why not Posted September 23, 2017 #27 Share Posted September 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Speaking as an outsider, it's always baffled me that the Home of the Free have turned demonstrations of fealty to the flag into a ritual. You have to stand. You have to put your hand on your heart. you have to say the ritual words. I know people are going to talk about "showing respect" to the Colours, respect to the people who fought and died under the flag, but mindless repetition is not respect. There is no respect in being told to be respectful, it's just obedience. I'm sorry if your "baffled" by the fact that most Americans believe showing respect to our flag and our "ritual" is just "mindless repetition". To most of us we do believe that we live in a Great Country that offers us the Freedoms, Rights and Safeties that a lot (if not most) of other Countries don't. This Country is far from perfect and never claimed to be. Every person here has the same Rights as the next person - Black, White, Hispanic, Muslim, Japanese, Gay, Straight, Female, Male, etc. The point is, MOST of us do believe it is showing respect to our Country and to those who have given their lives to defend this Great Country and not just "mindless repetition". Most of us take a lot of pride in our Country and know how lucky we are. Take Collin Kappernick's ass to any other Country and see if he becomes a multi millionaire playing a GAME. No. Maybe these whiney self-absorber athletes should Google Pat Tillman and see what a selfless person is. If they are so out of touch with how fortunate they are, LEAVE ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted September 23, 2017 #28 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Everyone is free to express their own political opinions. But, when you're at work you are not free to upset the other people you work with, the customers or your bosses. This is the way it is for everyone in society. Just because you play football for a living doesn't mean you have special dispensation to disrupt the workplace, the paying customers and your employers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why not Posted September 23, 2017 #29 Share Posted September 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lilly said: Everyone is free to express their own political opinions. But, when you're at work you are not free to upset the other people you work with, the customers or your bosses. This is the way it is for everyone in society. Just because you play football for a living doesn't mean you have special dispensation to disrupt the workplace, the paying customers and your employers. Lilly your right. But I believe most just do it for the attention. Or they just are not smart enough to realize how lucky they really are to live where they do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #30 Share Posted September 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, Why not said: I'm sorry if your "baffled" by the fact that most Americans believe showing respect to our flag and our "ritual" is just "mindless repetition". To most of us we do believe that we live in a Great Country that offers us the Freedoms, Rights and Safeties that a lot (if not most) of other Countries don't. This Country is far from perfect and never claimed to be. Every person here has the same Rights as the next person - Black, White, Hispanic, Muslim, Japanese, Gay, Straight, Female, Male, etc. The point is, MOST of us do believe it is showing respect to our Country and to those who have given their lives to defend this Great Country and not just "mindless repetition". Most of us take a lot of pride in our Country and know how lucky we are. Take Collin Kappernick's ass to any other Country and see if he becomes a multi millionaire playing a GAME. No. Maybe these whiney self-absorber athletes should Google Pat Tillman and see what a selfless person is. If they are so out of touch with how fortunate they are, LEAVE ! It is (you can't argue against that), nevertheless decency comes into play. But I totally agree with your on "If they are so out of touch with how fortunate they are, LEAVE ". Kinda Russian speakers from Baltics who chose to migrate to UK instead of Russia, and at the same time they are calling UK dwellers as "debils", i.e. mentally inferior. Brings a picture, isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 23, 2017 #31 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, bmk1245 said: Exactly. If you despised the man, why go to the memorial. That brings the point: why Colin Kaepernick haven't refused to play if he is so concerned? 'Cause is freakin' hypocrite. Or maybe its a case of Sport Agents and Contractual Binding Obligations ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malarion Posted September 23, 2017 #32 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I'm not much of a poster, obvious, by my post count. But, I would have assumed that most of the people on this forum would have heard of the "paid patriotism" thing, as it reeks of propaganda. https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem "It's a tribute to the NFL's ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn't even standard practice." Add in the fact that the NFL received millions of taxpayer dollars from the Department of Defense and the National Guard for patriotic displays, " Such a grand old tradition someone is breaking. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #33 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, third_eye said: Or maybe its a case of Sport Agents and Contractual Binding Obligations ... ~ So, he can move elsewhere, where no agents and CBO, simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #34 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, bmk1245 said: So, he can move elsewhere, where are no agents and CBO, quite simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 23, 2017 #35 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, bmk1245 said: So, he can move elsewhere, where no agents and CBO, simple. If it was only so simple ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #36 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, third_eye said: If it was only so simple ... ~ Who said simple? Again, there is whole continent waiting for oppressed to return. Thats simple: buy ticket, buh bye, see yah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 23, 2017 #37 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, bmk1245 said: Who said simple? You ... ~ 8 minutes ago, bmk1245 said: So, he can move elsewhere, where no agents and CBO, simple. ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted September 23, 2017 #38 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Yes, there are advertisements for the military (the NFL being paid for this), but the amounts are pretty much minimal considering the amounts commercial advertisers pay for air time during NFL games (6 million over 3 years to all teams isn't really that much). Link here to amounts: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/which_nfl_teams_are_getting_your_federal_tax_dolla.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 23, 2017 #39 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Lilly said: You play a game in a country that has the wealth and freedom allowing for sports teams. These sports teams pay you millions and millions of dollars. And, what do you choose to do? You choose disrespect the very country that has provided your success. Talk about spoiled individuals. The people who own these sports teams have the absolute legal right to fire whomever they please. When you have the leader of our nation calling citizens PEACEFULLY exercising their First Amendment right's son's of b****es...is there anything left to stand for? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malarion Posted September 23, 2017 #40 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lilly said: Yes, there are advertisements for the military (the NFL being paid for this), but the amounts are pretty much minimal considering the amounts commercial advertisers pay for air time during NFL games (6 million over 3 years to all teams isn't really that much). Link here to amounts: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/which_nfl_teams_are_getting_your_federal_tax_dolla.html And does the amount of it change the fact that nfl players weren't on the field during the national anthem until their team owners were paid to do so? No. The point I was making is that it isn't a tradition. That no one even noticed the decades beforehand that the players were absent. It's a propaganda tool for them to be out there and drum up support for the ol' red, white, and blue. And I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is having a problem with a few people not participating in it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 23, 2017 #41 Share Posted September 23, 2017 It truly baffles me that people use the amount of money players make as the reason they should "fall in line". That's absolutely ridiculous. These players obviously truly care about what they believe in. They have seen what happened to Kaepernick, and yet, they are risking their millions to stand up for what they believe is right. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 23, 2017 #42 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Malarion said: And does the amount of it change the fact that nfl players weren't on the field during the national anthem until their team owners were paid to do so? No. The point I was making is that it isn't a tradition. That no one even noticed the decades beforehand that the players were absent. It's a propaganda tool for them to be out there and drum up support for the ol' red, white, and blue. And I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is having a problem with a few people not participating in it. I served in the military. I fly the flag in front of my house. I love my country, and what it stands for. I watch football all day every Sunday. When that national anthem starts, I'm sitting on my couch with my feet up cracking a beer...that doesn't make me any less of a patriot, or American. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted September 23, 2017 #43 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I suggest you all try bringing your political expressions into your workplace. Be sure to offend many of your co-workers and those who are paying customers. Stand back and see what your bosses will do. First, you will probably just be spoken to, but if you don't take your political expressions elsewhere you will probably be fired. Work is not the same thing as being at home, or at a political rally, or just being out in public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malarion Posted September 23, 2017 #44 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lilly said: I suggest you all try bringing your political expressions into your workplace. Be sure to offend many of your co-workers and those who are paying customers. Stand back and see what your bosses will do. First, you will probably just be spoken to, but if you don't take your political expressions elsewhere you will probably be fired. Work is not the same thing as being at home, or at a political rally, or just being out in public. My workplace isn't paid by the US Government to make me stand in front of millions of people to show patriotic respect. If they were I would do the same thing I always do when I hear the national anthem, stand silently and let other people do what they want. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 23, 2017 #45 Share Posted September 23, 2017 WHat I find bewildering as a non American is how in the world the POTUS have the time to poke his honker into what goes on before a NFL game is beyond me ... ~ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #46 Share Posted September 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, third_eye said: You ... ~ ~ Ok, I got some thoughts wringled (Sunday, afterall), anyway its quite simple - move to Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 23, 2017 #47 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, bmk1245 said: Ok, I got some thoughts wringled (Sunday, afterall), anyway its quite simple - move to Africa. Let's see you try that and still come out saying its 'simple' ~ its okay ... I'm off to watch some real Football games ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted September 23, 2017 #48 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: But they're not disrespecting or interrupting others being respectful. They are respectfully not taking part in the ritual. Given the stature of their profession and venue they are absolutely interrupting. If they weren’t interrupting nobody would notice. Also, given their venue and profession they know darn well they’re doing this to be noticed. That is an interruption. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted September 23, 2017 #49 Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, third_eye said: Let's see you try that and still come out saying its 'simple' ~ its okay ... I'm off to watch some real Football games ... Ah, everything for muzzies is hard, figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 23, 2017 #50 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lilly said: Everyone is free to express their own political opinions. But, when you're at work you are not free to upset the other people you work with, the customers or your bosses. This is the way it is for everyone in society. Just because you play football for a living doesn't mean you have special dispensation to disrupt the workplace, the paying customers and your employers. Absolutely. I don't think that is the real issue here, though. Owners can do what they want. They can release players as they see fit, and I have no issue with that. I don't even have an issue with Kaepernick not having a job, because you can't force a team to sign him. However, like I said, I do have an issue with the President calling Americans engaging in a peaceful protest son's of b****es. He was far more harsh on NFL players than Nazis that killed a woman in Charlottesville. That is the real issue. It is unacceptable that we are allowing our President to attack peaceful protesters. Edited September 23, 2017 by Agent0range 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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