Trump blasts NFL anthem protesters

[+joc]

13 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Over 1200 people violently killed by police in a year, a large number of them unarmed black males. 

Thats what was being protested. Its really pretty simple. 

Care to list the names of the 'unarmed blacks'? Do you have a list?  No. You don't.  You are just spouting crap off of CNN and gobbling up like Turkey on Thanksgiving.

Go ahead...name  ten.   ....okay name 5.

Actually...

Here are some more 'accurate numbers' let's look at them shall we? 

Today, we take a look at the number of people killed by police officers. This year the number is 957 people, down slightly from 991 in 2015, but still a very large number. It’s approximately three people a day, according to reporting done by “The Washington Post.” According to “The Post,” white men accounted for the most deaths, roughly half of them. However, when population rates were factored in, black men were three times as likely to be killed by police and they accounted for a third of the unarmed killed.

link

....if a third of the unarmed men killed were black...what were the other TWO THIRDS?

Edited October 12, 2017 by joc

[quillius]

15 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Hola , well of course I added violent to make it sound bad, not necessarily to make it sound unjust though. 

Ok so I stand corrected it was 1146 people according to the Guardian : The Counted People killed by police in the US and since there hasnt been up until now (wait i think trump got rid of it nevermind) Since there not an official way to track these numbers thats about as good as we get. 

You mentioned the term unjust and I think the very definition of what is and or isnt a just killing is a huge part of the problem we face. 

 

 I think the fact you felt you needed to 'make' it sound bad says quite a bit!

 

ok, ....your initial post made it sound as if over a thousand people were killed by police and that most were unarmed black men. 

from your link:  not sure where 1146 came from as the figure I am looking at says 1093. Of these only 170 were unarmed.

And of these 170 only 42 were black. So the figure is actually 42 unarmed black men killed by police. Just with these simple stats the picture doesn't quite show the racism that is implied.

Forgetting the race angle, if we then simply look at 170 unarmed killed how many of these were 'obviously' unjust? If an officer pulls a man over and asks him to step out of the vehicle, the man ignores request and reaches for glove compartment, whilst still being asked not to do it and to just raise hands and step out....but again ignores and continues reaching for glove department......as it opens...officer shoots....is this unjust? (I think this scenario may help me understand the definition of unjust you lean towards)

Edited October 12, 2017 by quillius
one last fact: out of the 42 killed only 30 were by gunshot

[Farmer77]

9 hours ago, joc said:

...if a third of the unarmed men killed were black...what were the other TWO THIRDS?

Who cares? You're literally rooting for tyranny by ignoring the issue 

9 hours ago, joc said:

Care to list the names of the 'unarmed blacks'? Do you have a list?  No. You don't.  You are just spouting crap off of CNN and gobbling up like Turkey on Thanksgiving

Man ya'll have your talking points and you stick to them huh? LOL  Sorry man but this is an issue which ive been following much more closely than even CNN covers. Like I said above this is a tyranny issue, anyways this site has been doing a good job collecting data on police killings for a while now:

The Counted : The people killed by police in the US  

This one from last year has a nice rundown of case information. 

From Ferguson to Baton Rouge: Deaths of black men and women at the hands of police

But hey since you asked for names the one that really sticks out to me as being especially heartbreaking is Tamir RIce. That kid was murdered, the "prosecution" of his killers was clearly a farce designed to ensure the officers' acquittal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice 

 

9 hours ago, joc said:

Here are some more 'accurate numbers' let's look at them shall we? 

Today, we take a look at the number of people killed by police officers. This year the number is 957 people, down slightly from 991 in 2015, but still a very large number. It’s approximately three people a day, according to reporting done by “The Washington Post.” According to “The Post,” white men accounted for the most deaths, roughly half of them. However, when population rates were factored in, black men were three times as likely to be killed by police and they accounted for a third of the unarmed killed.

Um you just posted something which kinda proves the point that black men are more likely to be killed by police than other races..... going further they make up a third of the unarmed killed (33%)  yet they comprise just 13% of our society again the numbers are making the case. 

 

 

 

 

[+joc]

32 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Who cares? You're literally rooting for tyranny by ignoring the issue 

Man ya'll have your talking points and you stick to them huh? LOL  Sorry man but this is an issue which ive been following much more closely than even CNN covers. Like I said above this is a tyranny issue, anyways this site has been doing a good job collecting data on police killings for a while now:

The Counted : The people killed by police in the US  

This one from last year has a nice rundown of case information. 

From Ferguson to Baton Rouge: Deaths of black men and women at the hands of police

But hey since you asked for names the one that really sticks out to me as being especially heartbreaking is Tamir RIce. That kid was murdered, the "prosecution" of his killers was clearly a farce designed to ensure the officers' acquittal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice 

  10 hours ago, joc said:

Here are some more 'accurate numbers' let's look at them shall we? 

Today, we take a look at the number of people killed by police officers. This year the number is 957 people, down slightly from 991 in 2015, but still a very large number. It’s approximately three people a day, according to reporting done by “The Washington Post.” According to “The Post,” white men accounted for the most deaths, roughly half of them.However, when population rates were factored in, black men were three times as likely to be killed by police and they accounted for a third of the unarmed killed.

Um you just posted something which kinda proves the point that black men are more likely to be killed by police than other races..... going further they make up a third of the unarmed killed (33%)  yet they comprise just 13% of our society again the numbers are making the case. 

 

 

 

 

Tyranny?  Farmer77,  fighting crime is NOT Tyranny.  Look at what you highlighted my friend.  What that means is that most of the black men were killed in areas where the population is predominately black.  Why do you think that is? Could it perhaps be because most of the crime happens in predominantly black population areas?  And why is that? Could it be that the majority of Gang Members pushing drugs and doing the majority of the crimes happen to be black in predominantly black population centers?  And is there Tyranny in those areas?  Damn straight there is!  Will the regular folk, black or white or hispanic, tell the cops anything about anything that goes down? NO!  Why? Because they live in fear of the consequences of the Gangs.  THAT is Tyranny Farmer77.  

Furthermore, what is the most common reason people who are unarmed get shot by police?  The numero uno reason is because they didn't follow the commands of the police...the police think they have a weapon and make a split second decision.  And why do they think these people have a weapon?  Because in these predominantly black populated areas...most of the black men on the street do! 

Just try looking at this from a Police officers point of view...a Black Police Officer.  It isn't white vs black Farmer77.  It is law abiding citizens of all races, all faiths, vs.  those who break the law and put the rest of us in harms way.

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Tyranny?  Farmer77,  fighting crime is NOT Tyranny. 

The prison industrial complex is a real and powerful thing. We in America comprise about 5% of the world's population, yet we house 25% of the worlds prison population. Tell me joc, do you really think Americans are worse human beings than the rest of the world? Are we just inherently bad ? 

In my opinion, NO no we're not. The criminal justice system is broken. 

3 minutes ago, joc said:

Just try looking at this from a Police officers point of view...a Black Police Officer.  It isn't white vs black Farmer77.  It is law abiding citizens of all races, all faiths, vs.  those who break the law and put the rest of us in harms way.

I do agree it isnt white vs black , its blue vs everyone else however some segments of our society take the brunt of that paradigm. Ive told this anecdote on here before but ive had some version of this quote gleefully told to me by members of 3 different law enforcement agencies :

Quote

"There's three types of people in the world: Cops, Criminals and those we havent caught yet."

They do believe its them vs everyone else, the rise of the warrior cop is the absolute tip of the tyrannical spear 

Rise of the Warrior Cop: The militarization of America's police forces

 

[+joc]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I do agree it isnt white vs black , its blue vs everyone else however some segments of our society take the brunt of that paradigm.

Wrong! It is not Blue vs everyone else.  It is Blue vs Criminals.  That Segment that take the brunt of the Thin Blue Line...yeah, criminals.  Are you a criminal? If not then you have nothing to fear from the Blue.  But then again...your avatar is wearing a Castro shirt...yeah, I said it! Castro...the Ultimate Tyrannical Dictator.  Nothing FREE about Tryanny.  But you go ahead and live with someone elses chip on your shoulder.  I am FREE! Chip Free! Nothing up my sleeve...nothing on my shoulder!  

Wanna know something else?  The reason we have so many people in this country in prison is not because we have more crime.  Happens in free societies...but guess what else...we don't KILL our criminals...only those rare few who want to go against the Blue.

I don't care what you think anymore.  You hate the cops.  Nuff said.  I love all aspects of Law Enforcement...they are the real super heros of our time!  Them ...and the guys and gals in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and planes all around this globe.

 

[DarkHunter]

Just to throw this out there I decided to do some quick research on this whole incarceration rate by country and while America has the highest rate by a significant margin, partially cause some countries like China for example fudge their incarceration rates by not counting people sent to labor camps.  The reason for such a high incarceration rate in America seems to largely be tied to American courts since about the mid 70's to early 80's becoming significantly harder on crime and giving out much longer sentences for various crimes.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=print&referer=

While a bit dated that does into a lot of America being harder on crime but for some interesting parts from it, in America burglars on average will be given a 16 month prison sentence while in the UK the average is 7 months and in Canada it's 5 months.  

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2015/11/prison-time-surges-for-federal-inmates

Seems that from 1988 to 2012 the average prison sentence in America jumped from 17.9 months to 37.5 months, a little over a year to a little over 3 years.

https://www.vera.org/publications/sentencing-and-prison-practices-in-germany-and-the-netherlands-implications-for-the-united-states

To provide some perspective, the average prison sentence in Germany and the Netherlands at the same time was under 1 year on average.

[Agent0range]

2 hours ago, joc said:

 

I don't care what you think anymore.  You hate the cops.  Nuff said.  I love all aspects of Law Enforcement...they are the real super heros of our time!  Them ...and the guys and gals in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and planes all around this globe.

 

I'm both.  A Veteran that deployed four times, and currently law enforcement.  I personally think you are a disgusting human being.  Don't use me, as a Veteran, or law enforcement as your personal scape goat.  Thanks.  Do something yourself that benefits this country, and then talk.  

[mysticwerewolf]

what they need to do is get together and figure out how to honor vets that is exclusively for the vets, I have no idea what but something. a minute of silence on the feeling with  a small list of KIA's over the Pa system before or after the silence. Something I was air-force 40 years ago, and don't like football but still the answer is  right under their nose ( as I see it, and if I can see it they should be able to).

 

[Farmer77]

10 hours ago, joc said:

If not then you have nothing to fear from the Blue.

LOL You truly are in denial huh? The following is a good example of the problems we as a society face from  a militaristic and unaccountable police presence. 

It’s Time to Deal with the Police Threat to the Second Amendment  

Quote

It’s happened again. Police officers in Southaven, Miss., were trying to serve an arrest warrant for aggravated assault on a man named Samuel Pearman, but instead they showed up at a trailer owned by an auto mechanic named Ismael Lopez. It was nighttime, and according to his wife, Lopez went to the door to investigate a noise. She stayed in bed. What happened next was tragic. According to the police, Lopez opened his door and a pit bull charged out. One officer opened fire on the dog, the other officer fired on the man allegedly holding a gun in the doorway, pointing it at the men approaching his home. As the Washington Post reported on July 26, it was only after the smoke cleared that the officers made their “heart-dropping discovery: They were at the wrong home.”
 

 

10 hours ago, joc said:

But then again...your avatar is wearing a Castro shirt...yeah, I said it! Castro...the Ultimate Tyrannical Dictator.  Nothing FREE about Tryanny. 

LOL you're just batting 1000 here. My avatar is Josh Gordon not Colin Kaepernick. 

10 hours ago, joc said:

Wanna know something else?  The reason we have so many people in this country in prison is not because we have more crime.  Happens in free societies...but guess what else...we don't KILL our criminals...only those rare few who want to go against the Blue.

Actually we do, thats kind of what this whole discussion is about : By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years 

10 hours ago, joc said:

I don't care what you think anymore.  You hate the cops.  Nuff said.

Thats just lazy and Its that mentality right there that is making cops less safe 

 

[+joc]

10 hours ago, Agent0range said:

I'm both.  A Veteran that deployed four times, and currently law enforcement.  I personally think you are a disgusting human being.  Don't use me, as a Veteran, or law enforcement as your personal scape goat.  Thanks.  Do something yourself that benefits this country, and then talk.  

Thank you for your service.

[+joc]

11 hours ago, Agent0range said:

I'm both.  A Veteran that deployed four times, and currently law enforcement.  I personally think you are a disgusting human being.  Don't use me, as a Veteran, or law enforcement as your personal scape goat.  Thanks.  Do something yourself that benefits this country, and then talk.  

I too am a Veteran by the way.  I do something that benefits this country every single day!  I work.  ....and I don't steal, kill, do drugs, deal drugs, or engage in any type of criminal activity.

I personally do not think you are a disgusting human being.  ...just a misguided one! Have a nice day.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

On 13/10/2017 at 10:40 AM, joc said:

Wrong! It is not Blue vs everyone else.  It is Blue vs Criminals.  That Segment that take the brunt of the Thin Blue Line...yeah, criminals.  Are you a criminal? If not then you have nothing to fear from the Blue.  But then again...your avatar is wearing a Castro shirt...yeah, I said it! Castro...the Ultimate Tyrannical Dictator.  Nothing FREE about Tryanny.  But you go ahead and live with someone elses chip on your shoulder.  I am FREE! Chip Free! Nothing up my sleeve...nothing on my shoulder!  

Wanna know something else?  The reason we have so many people in this country in prison is not because we have more crime.  Happens in free societies...but guess what else...we don't KILL our criminals...only those rare few who want to go against the Blue.

I don't care what you think anymore.  You hate the cops.  Nuff said.  I love all aspects of Law Enforcement...they are the real super heros of our time!  Them ...and the guys and gals in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and planes all around this globe.

 

Castro is the ultimate in tyranny?

not Hitler, responsible for 15 million dead. Not Stalin, who had the entire world cowering in fear for decades. Not Mao, or Pol Pot or Moussilini (check out Il Duche’s favoured architecture sometime). 

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Castro is the ultimate in tyranny?

not Hitler, responsible for 15 million dead. Not Stalin, who had the entire world cowering in fear for decades. Not Mao, or Pol Pot or Moussilini (check out Il Duche’s favoured architecture sometime). 

It was a quip about his T shirt avatar. And Castro WAS a Tyrannical Dictator.  

[+susieice]

Anyhow, he opted out of his contract and now he's crying that he doesn't have a job.

http://6abc.com/sports/abc-colin-kaepernick-files-grievance-against-nfl/2535993/

[.ZZ.]

43 minutes ago, susieice said:

Anyhow, he opted out of his contract and now he's crying that he doesn't have a job.

http://6abc.com/sports/abc-colin-kaepernick-files-grievance-against-nfl/2535993/

He's breaking my heart....

[+susieice]

HE opted out of his contract. HE put himself in the position he's in now. I doubt HE learned that acting stupid does not compensate for a multi-million dollar contract. Those owners do not have to pick him up for any team. I heard his last season was really bad, which could be why the sideshow started.

The Eagles better not feel sorry for him. We are perfectly happy with Wentz 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, joc said:

It was a quip about his T shirt avatar. And Castro WAS a Tyrannical Dictator.  

Yes, he was. But you called him “the ultimate tyrannical dictator” and frankly, he’s not even in the top ten. 

[.ZZ.]

34 minutes ago, susieice said:

HE opted out of his contract. HE put himself in the position he's in now. I doubt HE learned that acting stupid does not compensate for a multi-million dollar contract. Those owners do not have to pick him up for any team. I heard his last season was really bad, which could be why the sideshow started.

The Eagles better not feel sorry for him. We are perfectly happy with Wentz 

Wentz is having a great year, especially effective on 3rd downs.

You're right, It's his skill set that isn't wanted, never mind the distraction he would be to any team that is stupid enough to sign him. I think his lackluster career is over.

Edited October 16, 2017 by .ZZ.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, susieice said:

HE opted out of his contract. HE put himself in the position he's in now. I doubt HE learned that acting stupid does not compensate for a multi-million dollar contract. Those owners do not have to pick him up for any team. I heard his last season was really bad, which could be why the sideshow started.

The Eagles better not feel sorry for him. We are perfectly happy with Wentz 

Interesting parallel...a juxtaposition as it were.   HE put himself in the position he is in now...it had nothing to do with anyone caring really about his racial background....He put himself in the position he is in....

And the vast majority of people who find themselves in a negative situation with the police put THEMSELVES in that very position.   They run....or they try to fight the police...or they disregard the commands of the police.....interesting parallel.

[+susieice]

This is his angle.

https://phi.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Colin-Kaepernick-seeking-to-terminate-CBA-through-grievan-109002143

[.ZZ.]

11 minutes ago, susieice said:

This is his angle.

https://phi.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Colin-Kaepernick-seeking-to-terminate-CBA-through-grievan-109002143

I think the NFL owners have more resources to fight this in court than he does.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I think the NFL owners have more resources to fight this in court than he does.

 Or Kapernick could set up a crowd funding page and get all the “down with Trump” supporters to fund his “fight against the man”.

[+susieice]

16 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I think the NFL owners have more resources to fight this in court than he does.

Not sure I totally understand this CBA because I don't follow the fine print on the contracts, but how can he say the owners forced him to do anything if he quit on his own? They aren't required by law to hire him, are they?

[Kurzweil]

The buzz I heard back when he started this was there was talk he was going to be dropped. He caught wind of it and started this whole crap storm to preserve his position. Now it's just another movement that is now based on something other than it's first intention and with further garbage people are throwing at it.