What he really wanted

[Will Due]

8 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Will , you don't understand the verse? 

I'm not trying to rewrite what Jesus taught, are you?

Will, I will go over it with you okay. 

You want me to go stand in the corner?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Will Due

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16–17)

Ella, we already know the many versions of the bible that are in print today are very different.

The most notable thing about that isn't that single words don't translate the same in one version to another, no, it's that entire chapters are either missing entirely, or several verses have been added, usually at the end of a particular chapter. 

 

You know this and have admitted it in this thread.

 

When reading your bible, whichever version you like, it doesnt matter, you know things are taken out and other things are put in. So because of it, you have to read with an eye towards discerning what is true and what is not. By the definition of this situation right?

 

In the following quote we can do that. I'll go ahead and bold out what was added in translation which isn't true,  but was probably done so by well intentioned scribes, nonetheless however, incorrectly so.

 

John 14: 16-17

16  And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17  the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

 

You can easily see the difference in tone and tenor from the first part of the passage compared to the second part can't you?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Will Due

[Guyver]

8 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

I love Jesus.

Do you love Jesus more than God?  If so, wouldn't that be a violation of the ten commandments?

[aka CAT]

2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

   One can be mature in ways that serve this world and convince, even deceive . Plenty of religious individuals were very mature yet their hearts were void of God. Jesus referred to those as not being filled of thy Father but of theirs the serpent.   I read where you have no compassion for church,  I've felt that way before as I was learning.It's good to be wise and as Jesus said do not be deceived.  I've grown since then and  understand that  that sort of logic is not Christian and  should never  pertain to every single church, Jesus himself went to the Temple to worship and he was God. He was the perfect example of maturity and we as his followers,Christians are to follow by his example, not rewrite his example.   As a christian I know that it is living by his  example that the maturest of growth could be obtained. Of course I am not there yet and I don't know how well I'll do trying but I will always try to be pleasing unto him. I don't want to stand in shame before the Lord.

Indicated was the fact that, over time, people realize their actions have consequences and must, therefore, take responsibility for them.

You would judge me in error whether or not I were a pious Catholic, because you are Protestant.  Religious differences aside, I merely

assert the fact that the leaders of churches are no less subject to corruption than nations with armies, i.e. I know for a fact that any 

position of power can be usurped, which is topic for another discussion.  However, with my main grievances being faith-based initiatives' 

putting churches in governmental pockets and the latter's puppeteers' reducing religious leaders to proponents of global taxation, I'd

sooner worship in private than any so desecrated temple.  So, do heed Christ, and “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” 

Edited September 26, 2017 by aka CAT

[aka CAT]

2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Could you explain that please  from what Jesus taught about that?  From what I can tell The Holy Spirit only dwells within Believers.

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16–17)

Conceded God is omnipresent, He does give us the choice to freely accept Him.  Even so, the fact that Christ would forgive the thief on a cross next to his own is reason to retain hope for anyone until they exhale their last breath.  Hence, I pray those blindest to the Spirit never become so hard-hearted as to shun the very best of themselves.

[aka CAT]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

Do you love Jesus more than God?  If so, wouldn't that be a violation of the ten commandments?

Greetings, Guyver.

Saint Patrick likened the Holy Trinity to a shamrock for, though it has three leaves, they are of the same plant, i.e.

to love Jesus is to serve the Father whereby to grow in the Holy Spirit.

0:-) MGby.

[ellapenella]

10 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Indicated was the fact that, over time, people realize their actions have consequences and must, therefore, take responsibility for them.

You would judge me in error whether or not I were a pious Catholic, because you are Protestant.  Religious differences aside, I merely

assert the fact that the leaders of churches are no less subject to corruption than nations with armies, i.e. I know for a fact that any 

position of power can be usurped, which is topic for another discussion.  However, with my main grievances being faith-based initiatives' 

putting churches in governmental pockets and the latter's puppeteers' reducing religious leaders to proponents of global taxation, I'd

sooner worship in private than any so desecrated temple.  So, do heed Christ, and “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” 

Where has the bible ever showed us that all  Churches functioned orderly in the manner which Jesus exemplified? For anyone to suggest that every single church on earth is totally  corrupt is not being totally honest in their judgment of the church. In the book of revelation for example Jesus gives a prophetic vision to John his disciple about all that he is aware of going on within the church, Jesus did not say for us to dismiss the church, each will be judge as well as the believer and the unbeliever. Judas Iscariot comes to my mind as well. He was right there as one of the disciples and Jesus knew his heart as well as any other but the church was meant to continue. When we start judging all the churches as being  corrupt it will only  serve  the enemy of the church and God's word.  I am not judging where you worship, I have friends who worship in home base settings. I keep in my heart always that Jesus said where two gather in his name  he is there with them,that's powerful and it's true. I know that many  church's have gone apostate and I know that many have not. China also comes to mind, some there have to sneak to worship and when they do they never want it to end.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Ellapennella

[ellapenella]

9 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Conceded God is omnipresent, He does give us the choice to freely accept Him.  Even so, the fact that Christ would forgive the thief on a cross next to his own is reason to retain hope for anyone until they exhale their last breath.  Hence, I pray those blindest to the Spirit never become so hard-hearted as to shun the very best of themselves.

The Lord is beautiful and we are to be like him. We are also to keep his word and when it is being misrepresented we are to correct it,it's the least we can do in his name. I pray that a revival lead by and  of the Holy Spirit is known in every heart and that minds are renewed in his word.

ETA

The gifts of the Spirit need to be opened and developed.  When the first mention of the Church in the book of Acts occurred it mentions the word of God. The word of God and the church have always been under attack.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Ellapennella

[ellapenella]

11 hours ago, Guyver said:

Do you love Jesus more than God?  If so, wouldn't that be a violation of the ten commandments?

Jesus is God. I get that you don't believe it or understand why .

A have a nice day.

 

[ellapenella]

11 hours ago, Will Due said:

Ella, we already know the many versions of the bible that are in print today are very different.

The most notable thing about that isn't that single words don't translate the same in one version to another, no, it's that entire chapters are either missing entirely, or several verses have been added, usually at the end of a particular chapter. 

 

You know this and have admitted it in this thread.

 

When reading your bible, whichever version you like, it doesnt matter, you know things are taken out and other things are put in. So because of it, you have to read with an eye towards discerning what is true and what is not. By the definition of this situation right?

 

In the following quote we can do that. I'll go ahead and bold out what was added in translation which isn't true,  but was probably done so by well intentioned scribes, nonetheless however, incorrectly so.

 

John 14: 16-17

16  And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17  the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

 

You can easily see the difference in tone and tenor from the first part of the passage compared to the second part can't you?

 

 

 No worries,   as readers  grow in the word they want more of it so you don't have to worry about that.

[Will Due]

8 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

 No worries,   as readers  grow in the word they want more of it so you don't have to worry about that.

Good morning Ella. Forgive me for asking, but more of what?

 

 

[ellapenella]

12 hours ago, Will Due said:

You want me to go stand in the corner?

So,because an historical fact of matter was explained to you as to  why the verse you quoted" at me " was said, the one  that you did not fully understand and was made clear for you, your reply is this. When things are made known to me I'm always grateful and thankful and I look for more to be made known that i didn't understand in the bible. But you, you continue to pervert it and when it's shown you make a mockery of it.  The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and is made known even more so by the word of God, this is what Jesus is all about, the word made known,  and you continue to try and  pervert it.

[Will Due]

22 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and is made known even more so by the word of God, this is what Jesus is all about, the word made known

You're right.

The Spirit of Truth is greater than the bible's so-called "word" of God.

It's because of the Spirit of Truth that everyone is able to know where the bible is wrong and where the bible is right, like I showed with John 14: 16-17

 

16  And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17  the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

 

The part I made bold, is not true.

 

How many other parts of the bible fall into this category and are "perverted" as you say Ellapennella?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Will Due

[ellapenella]

18 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Good morning Ella. Forgive me for asking, but more of what?

 

 

Good morning Will.  You're always quoting Jesus word when he said this"The Kingdom of God is within you" but  what did Christ mean?  I was reading this and wanted to share it with you.

I have not  Watched  the two-minute video to learn reasons why Jesus was not saying the Kingdom of God was in the Pharisees’ hearts.  but I am reading that link.

 

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/prophecy/kingdom-of-god/the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you/

[AZDZ]

@Ellapennella, I agree with you about the OKJV of the Bible being the best. It is the oldest and I believe most faithful translation available.  

@Will Due , you are correct about errors in some versions. Rev. 22:18 and 19 come to mind. I do think the LORD would be understanding towards anyone deceived by a bad version. .

 Ella, please don't think I am trying to pile on you here, but somethings you have said on this thread concern me. Please consider the following as exhortation, not criticisms.

I understand your love for the Bible. It often serves as our first contact with the LORD so it is easy to become obsessed with it, that happened to me, too.

The Bible was everything spiritual to me. Everything in my life was filtered though it, but then one day I stumbled across a verse which made my blood run cold. It was one of those verses which suddenly make the Bible come alive, it popped off the page and spoke in the voice we know to be the HS.

It was John 5:39, 40. Reading the first half of 39 I felt exulted, vindicated in my love of Scripture. But then my face began to fall at the latter half of 39, and then 40 totally crushed me. Those two verses haunted me for years. I put the Bible away and began thinking on the LORD alone.

The words of the Bible still rattle around in my head but they are no longer the total focus in my spiritual life. Today I see the Bible as milk but the LORD as the actual steak.

So yeah, I totally get how powerful and personal the Word can be but we should take care to not allow it to become an object of worship instead of the LORD.

Fair enough?

[simplybill]

AZDZ and Will Due-  I'm concerned about your posts. Extra-biblical sources are meant to offer different perspectives, although without the Bible as a guide one could easily lose the path. It'd be like backpacking without a compass and a topographical map.

For me personally, the two most important words in the Bible are 'dug deep'. We have to do a lot of digging through man-made philosophies to find what's solid and what isn't, as in Luke 6:47-48:

"As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built."

We should be careful to filter every teaching through the litmus test of "Does it agree with the Bible?" Our own emotions and opinions can easily lead us down the wrong path.   

[Will Due]

19 minutes ago, simplybill said:

AZDZ and Will Due-  I'm concerned about your posts. Extra-biblical sources are meant to offer different perspectives, although without the Bible as a guide one could easily lose the path. It'd be like backpacking without a compass and a topographical map.

For me personally, the two most important words in the Bible are 'dug deep'. We have to do a lot of digging through man-made philosophies to find what's solid and what isn't, as in Luke 6:47-48:

"As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built."

We should be careful to filter every teaching through the litmus test of "Does it agree with the Bible?" Our own emotions and opinions can easily lead us down the wrong path.

Genesis 4:17 

Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch

 

Hebrews 11:5   

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

 

Question simplybill.

How did Enoch do what Hebrews 11:5 states he did, without reading a bible, which of course in his day and age, did not exist?

 

Perhaps venerating the bible is much less important than simply worshipping God like Enoch obviously did like few have ever done, seeing that he came so close to God (without ever reading a bible) that "he did not experience death."

 

What do you think the bible is saying about the bible here?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Will Due

[simplybill]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

What do you think the bible is saying about the bible here?

Ultimately, I have to be concerned about my own relationship with God. If Enoch was spiritual enough to be considered righteous, that's good for him, but I'm a long ways from achieving that sort of righteousness. Without a reliable guide (the Bible) I am soon lost in the wilderness of man-made doctrines.

Gotta run. Heading to the big city.

[Will Due]

9 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Without a reliable guide (the Bible) I am soon lost in the wilderness of man-made doctrines.

Well, the doctrines of the bible might actually be that too - man-made, partially anyway.

Which may be the very reason Enoch was able to achieve what he did.

Because he only relied on God, which he and all of us could do too because:

"The kingdom of God is within you"

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Will Due

[Guyver]

10 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Jesus is God. I get that you don't believe it or understand why .

A have a nice day.

 

Way to go.  Don't throw your pearls to the swine.....right?

What the heck are you doing on this forum then?  This is a DISCUSSION FORUM.  Hello?  In any event, I'll gladly drop the trinitarian discussion/argument as it hasn't been resolved in 1800 years, and it's not about to get resolved now.  

And good day to you.  

[Will Due]

Good afternoon.

 

 

[simplybill]

6 hours ago, Will Due said:

Well, the doctrines of the bible might actually be that too - man-made, partially anyway.

Which may be the very reason Enoch was able to achieve what he did.

Because he only relied on God, which he and all of us could do too because:

"The kingdom of God is within you"

 

 

Without an ultimate authority, we tend to interpret things according to our own biases and emotions, which is similar to what Israel did after the death of Joshua:

"In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25 (NASB)

According to John Gill's commentary:  "every man did that which was right in his own eyes; there being none to restrain him from it, or punish him for it; and this accounts for the many evil things related, as the idolatry of Micah and the Danites, the base usage of the Levite's concubine, the extreme rigour and severity with which the Israelites treated their brethren the Benjaminites, the slaughter of the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead, and the rape of the daughters of Shiloh."

Consider your example of  "The Kingdom of God is within you". A careful look at the original Greek wording gives an entirely different interpretation:

"In this passage, entos (the Greek word that is translated “within”) can also be translated “in the midst of” (Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words). The New American Standard Bible, the New International Version, the Modern King James Version and Green’s Literal Translation translate this phrase “in your midst.” In this sense, Jesus, the King of the coming Kingdom of God, was standing in the midst of the Pharisees. These translations are clearly better, for the Kingdom of God was not in the hearts of these Pharisees."

It's a popular idea these days to 'embrace the god within you'. However that misinterpretation merely gives us unwarranted permission to make one's self the ultimate authority rather than God. It appeals to pride and our ego to believe we have sufficient wisdom within us to confidently proclaim our opinions as truth.    

 

 

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

we have sufficient wisdom within us to confidently proclaim our opinions as truth.    

Yes, that's why Jesus said "Fear not"

Have the guts to die (like he did) for the authority that the Universal Father indwells us all, there to reveal to us the truth, in conjunction with the indwelling presence of the Creator Son, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, in defiance of the false authority of the doctrines and dogma of men, who seek only to lead the people astray, and away from their inheritance as the sons and daughters of God, eternal life. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Will Due

[simplybill]

4 hours ago, simplybill said:

appeals to pride and our ego to believe we have sufficient wisdom within us to confidently proclaim our opinions as truth.    

I should have included the word 'theological' in that sentence:

"confidently proclaim our theological opinions as truth"

 I may confidently proclaim my opinion that eggs from free-range chickens taste better than eggs that come from a factory farm, but I'm not willing to make theological statements without first doing some research. In other words, I don't trust my ego to accurately discern spiritual matters.

 

[Will Due]

8 hours ago, simplybill said:

I don't trust my ego to accurately discern spiritual matters.

Well then, your bible has something to say about that:

 

Revelation 3:16 

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.