Damien Nettles

[CrackerC117]

I think we'd need to know how close Damien and his sister were to really confirm this theory. I'm quite conflicted with that. Chris Boon's later statement in the documentary alludes to other reasons why they went searching the bars in West Cowes. I am reluctant to take what Chris says as gospel truth though, after his cagey behaviour when he first spoke to Alys & Bronagh.

[Regi]

13 hours ago, Seryth said:

At ~05:37 in part one of the documentary on YouTube, Chris says "We went in to town because he, uh, believed his sister was there".

A few seconds later at ~05:53, the voice over says "Many witnesses report that Damien was going from pub to pub, looking for his sister".

In the timeline of events from: https://scepticpeg.wordpress.com/2017/03/23/operation-ridgewood-the-disappearance-of-damien-nettles/ 

borated

Thanks for pointing that out. So, the info. is that there are "many" witness statements that he was looking for his sister.

Well, with that, it's established to my satisfaction that Damien was indeed looking for his sister, I just don't know why.

Edit: I want to add that I never doubted that Damien was looking for his sister, it's just that the reason for that wasn't/hasn't been clarified.

13 hours ago, Seryth said:

In the timeline of events from: https://scepticpeg.wordpress.com/2017/03/23/operation-ridgewood-the-disappearance-of-damien-nettles/ 

What if him and Damien never did part ways at the park at 22:30, but somewhere else, at a different time?

It appears to me that Chris' statement of 10:30 would be/is corroborated (first) by witness K, whose info. is that she knew Damien and saw him a half hour later.

Edited October 10, 2017 by regi

[CrackerC117]

I'm just curious as to what people's gut feelings are about the weatherman saying he saw some burning at the address the police searched in 2011. He says he saw what could be a sleeve being tipped in to the fire. That would make sense if that person concerned was guilty for what happened to Damien. Damien was wearing heavy winter clothing, which would have made (and I'm trying to describe this with sensitivity here) the alleged transportation of Damien's body to the rumoured resting place more difficult.

The weatherman gave this information to Damien's mother face to face - something that most people wouldn't tell a worried mother lightly.

[Regi]

^ Since his info. regarding police presence on High St. appears to be corroborated and places him there (obviously), he comes across to me as a person of interest rather than a witness.

[CrackerC117]

Just now, regi said:

^ Since his info. regarding police presence on High St. appears to be corroborated and places him there (obviously), he comes across to me as a person of interest rather than a witness.

Do you think then that the burning theory he told Damien's mother was an attempt to throw people off the scent? 

[Regi]

17 minutes ago, CrackerC117 said:

Do you think then that the burning theory he told Damien's mother was an attempt to throw people off the scent? 

No, I'm just saying that I'd like to know more about this person who's placed himself in the immediately vicinity of where Damien was last known to be.

Edited October 10, 2017 by regi

[Seryth]

13 hours ago, regi said:

It appears to me that Chris' statement of 10:30 would be/is corroborated (first) by witness K, whose info. is that she knew Damien and saw him a half hour later.

Yes. Though I suppose one could make the argument that it would only take Damien around ten minutes to walk to to the High Street, and he wasn't spotted until a half hour later, but that's really picking at straws as the timing is all from people's memory, which obviously leaves way to error. And even half an hour isn't that long anyway.

 

10 hours ago, CrackerC117 said:

I'm just curious as to what people's gut feelings are about the weatherman saying he saw some burning at the address the police searched in 2011. He says he saw what could be a sleeve being tipped in to the fire. That would make sense if that person concerned was guilty for what happened to Damien. Damien was wearing heavy winter clothing, which would have made (and I'm trying to describe this with sensitivity here) the alleged transportation of Damien's body to the rumoured resting place more difficult.

The weatherman gave this information to Damien's mother face to face - something that most people wouldn't tell a worried mother lightly.

In my opinion, it is very possible the weatherman did actually see something being burned at the address. However my issue with it is that I can't see why they would remove the clothing in the first place to burn it. If the killer(s) had such a secretive burial ground, surely the necessity to remove clothing is negated. Why bother? As for telling Valerie face-to-face; it's also very possible that the weatherman fully believes what he saw was to do with Damien's disappearance, when in reality it wasn't. One man saying he possibly saw a sleeve being burned is a bit far-fetched for me to believe it completely without any further evidence or correlation.

I agree with regi that the weatherman seems to know a lot of immediate facts surrounding the disappearance that make him a definite person of interest.

 

[CrackerC117]

Just now, Seryth said:

 

However my issue with it is that I can't see why they would remove the clothing in the first place to burn it.

I can only think that if the theory is correct and it was Damien's clothes, it might have been to make Damien lighter and easier to carry. Damien was wearing heavy winter clothing - made even more heavy by the rain that night. 

Another reason that could be used to explain it is that the alleged killer might have been trying to remove his DNA from the body (I'm not sure how advanced DNA testing was back then though). It is rumoured and I must stress that it's just rumoured, that Damien was killed by a punch, and one person is rumoured to have thrown that punch. If Damien was sadly hit with a great force, then the alleged person who hit him could well have injured their hand - bleeding from knuckles etc. If there was the killer's blood on Damien's clothes, then obviously, the clothes would have to be destroyed. 

[Regi]

9 hours ago, Seryth said:

I agree with regi that the weatherman seems to know a lot of immediate facts surrounding the disappearance that make him a definite person of interest.

The only thing he said that I'm willing to believe is when and where he was on High St. (and that's only because of what he said about police in the vicinity), but what he said about having seen McNamara with Barrett appears impossible because that relationship wasn't until six years later- at the time of his death. She, herself, even pointed out this fact of the matter when she said that their relationship (relative to the time of Damien's disappearance) "was a long time after, a lot longer".

[CrackerC117]

Just now, regi said:

The only thing he said that I'm willing to believe is when and where he was on High St. (and that's only because of what he said about police in the vicinity), but what he said about having seen McNamara with Barrett appears impossible because that relationship wasn't until six years later- at the time of his death. She, herself, even pointed out this fact of the matter when she said that their relationship (relative to the time of Damien's disappearance) "was a long time after, a lot longer".

You have to remember though that one of the presenters in the documentary said Shirley admitted lying to them. Shirley admitted to owning a drug house and McNamara was a person said to be strongly involved with drugs at that time. On a small island, two people who are rumoured to be key figures in the drugs industry, well I think there could be a strong posibility that their paths had atleast crossed. Remember, it is said that Shirley initially gave the police the location of Baring Road. She later retracted this but how and why would she say that in the first place?

[Regi]

1 hour ago, CrackerC117 said:

 Remember, it is said that Shirley initially gave the police the location of Baring Road. She later retracted this but how and why would she say that in the first place?

The info. from that "doc" is that she admitted off camera that she'd lie to police for money.

Edit: I want to point out that no, it isn't a fact that Shirley initially gave the location of Baring Road. Even in that doc., that info. is presented to Shirley as info that "potentially" came from her.

Edited October 11, 2017 by regi

[CrackerC117]

Just now, regi said:

The info. from that "doc" is that she admitted off camera that she'd lie to police for money.

Edit: I want to point out that no, it isn't a fact that Shirley initially gave the location of Baring Road. Even in that doc., that info. is presented to Shirley as info that "potentially" came from her.

I never said it was a fact, just that it was said that she gave that street name.

[Seryth]

16 hours ago, CrackerC117 said:

I can only think that if the theory is correct and it was Damien's clothes, it might have been to make Damien lighter and easier to carry. Damien was wearing heavy winter clothing - made even more heavy by the rain that night. 

Another reason that could be used to explain it is that the alleged killer might have been trying to remove his DNA from the body (I'm not sure how advanced DNA testing was back then though). It is rumoured and I must stress that it's just rumoured, that Damien was killed by a punch, and one person is rumoured to have thrown that punch. If Damien was sadly hit with a great force, then the alleged person who hit him could well have injured their hand - bleeding from knuckles etc. If there was the killer's blood on Damien's clothes, then obviously, the clothes would have to be destroyed. 

To me, the DNA removal makes more sense than the making him lighter and easier to carry. From the footage we see, he's not wearing enough clothes that his weight would be an issue sorted by removing some of his clothing. Another option is perhaps his coat was a kinda oilskin material. Something thick and treated like that would probably take a lot longer to decompose, giving more time for LE to find Damien's body.

 

12 hours ago, regi said:

what he said about having seen McNamara with Barrett appears impossible because that relationship wasn't until six years later- at the time of his death. She, herself, even pointed out this fact of the matter when she said that their relationship (relative to the time of Damien's disappearance) "was a long time after, a lot longer".

Actually, I don't think it's impossible at all. I totally got the impression that Barrett and McNamara knew each other around the time of Damien's disappearance. Shirley says in the interview with Alys/Bronagh: "I've been running from this for years. Just because I was friends with Nicky Mac, everyone thought I knew all this...". In my mind, there is no doubt that Shirley and Nicky Mac knew each other, and later on down the line their friendship developed in to a relationship.

 

Also on a slightly different note, when they first talk to Shirley Barrett on the doorstep, she says that Nicky Mac was violent towards everyone, and that he did deal drugs to young boys. This adds credibility to the angered punch theory for debt/rage.

[Regi]

17 hours ago, CrackerC117 said:

I never said it was a fact, just that it was said that she gave that street name.

Yes, according to that P.I., that's what she told him, but there's no context and so I don't know whether she's the originator or if it's something she'd heard from somebody who told her they'd heard it from somebody else.

At this point, my impression is that it was most likely merely what she'd heard, definitely not what she knew or believed was true. 

[Regi]

13 hours ago, Seryth said:

Shirley says in the interview with Alys/Bronagh: "I've been running from this for years. Just because I was friends with Nicky Mac, everyone thought I knew all this...". In my mind, there is no doubt that Shirley and Nicky Mac knew each other, and later on down the line their friendship developed in to a relationship.

Well, maybe so, but to me, it isn't clear whether she was referring to the time-frame before or after McNamara's death. 

[CrackerC117]

Just now, regi said:

Well, maybe so, but to me, it isn't clear whether she was referring to the time-frame before or after McNamara's death. 

I think the word "friends" might be key here. Is it not possible that she began a friendship with McNamara in 1996, which slowly progressed to a companionship years later?

I'm not trying to sway your chain of thaughts, if you don't believe they met until way after, then I absolutely welcome that belief. I am just trying to rule things out here.

[Seryth]

8 hours ago, regi said:

Well, maybe so, but to me, it isn't clear whether she was referring to the time-frame before or after McNamara's death. 

If Shirley and Nicky Mac had never met or each other before their relationship which was years later, it would make no sense for "everyone" to think that Shirley had information about Damien's disappearance. That theory comes from her connection to Damien through McNamara. If there was no connection to McNamara before their relationship, why was Shirley a person of interest?

However I do agree that there is the possibility that McNamara and Barrett had no knowledge of each other. It would be good to clarify whether they knew each other at the time Damien disappeared.

All I can find in way of actually figuring out if they knew each other is that the Weatherman said he saw Nicky Mac with a group of men and one female on the high street that night. According to https://scepticpeg.wordpress.com/2017/03/23/operation-ridgewood-the-disappearance-of-damien-nettles/ this source, the female in question was Shirley Barrett. However I have not managed to find any other sources that corroborate that, so I'm taking that with a pinch of salt. It's annoying because it would have been so easy for Bronagh and Alys to ask Shirley if she knew Nicky at the time of Damien's disappearance.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Seryth

[CrackerC117]

Have you heard back from your FOI police request yet Seryth?

[Seryth]

3 hours ago, CrackerC117 said:

Have you heard back from your FOI police request yet Seryth?

Unfortunately not yet mate. I got an automated response the day after I sent the request saying the request will be fulfilled to the best of their ability/denied within twenty days. So we should know by the end of the month!

[CrackerC117]

Just now, Seryth said:

Unfortunately not yet mate. I got an automated response the day after I sent the request saying the request will be fulfilled to the best of their ability/denied within twenty days. So we should know by the end of the month!

Fingers crossed. Even the wording of their response could give clues if you look carefully though.

[Regi]

On 10/12/2017 at 7:52 PM, Seryth said:

 If there was no connection to McNamara before their relationship, why was Shirley a person of interest?

Well, I guess it's dependent upon their definition, but I'm not aware that Shirley was ever viewed by authorities as a POI, nor am I'm aware that she'd had any involvement whatsoever in the case until after McNamara's death.

On 10/12/2017 at 7:52 PM, Seryth said:

It's annoying because it would have been so easy for Bronagh and Alys to ask Shirley if she knew Nicky at the time of Damien's disappearance.

Please, don't get me started on what all I found annoying, honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start.

[CrackerC117]

Someone on YT suggested that they may have been more successful with a softly softly approach with Spencer. On reflection, I think that could be true. When people are more relaxed, they talk more freely. Bronagh did a great job gaining Shirley's trust, but the tactic with Spencer ruined it.

[Regi]

31 minutes ago, CrackerC117 said:

Someone on YT suggested that they may have been more successful with a softly softly approach with Spencer. On reflection, I think that could be true. When people are more relaxed, they talk more freely. Bronagh did a great job gaining Shirley's trust, but the tactic with Spencer ruined it.

The only great job they- including their own P.I.- did was to perpetuate rumors.

[Regi]

According to the weatherman, a police car pulled up directly in front of Yorkie's during the same time frame in which Damien was there, but when I view this video below, I see a vehicle pull up next door north of the chip shop yet when it pulls away, it doesn't appear to me to be police car.

@2:17, there's the reflection of a headlight in the window.

@4:38, I'm curious to know whether the guy's pointing out that there's a camera or what.

Edited October 14, 2017 by regi

[CrackerC117]

2 hours ago, regi said:

According to the weatherman, a police car pulled up directly in front of Yorkie's during the same time frame in which Damien was there, but when I view this video below, I see a vehicle pull up next door north of the chip shop yet when it pulls away, it doesn't appear to me to be police car.

@2:17, there's the reflection of a headlight in the window.

@4:38, I'm curious to know whether the guy's pointing out that there's a camera or what.

It seems like it. It sounds like Damien says something obscured (maybe something like I dare you to steal some ketchup sachets) and the guy points out the camera, then you hear Damien say "oh ****!".