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Ellapennella

Inverting of religious language.

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Sine secularization is basically this: where religious ideas,institutions,and interpretation have lost their social significance  in modern times by way of process of secularization.

Two questions.

#1 Do you care about your faith anymore?

#2 How can Christians live in a world that has lost it's absolutes.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ellapennella

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5 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Secularization is basically this: where religious ideas,institutions,and interpretation have lost their social significance  in modern times by way of process of secularization.

 

 

Which is due to the language of religion being out of touch with reality. From and about an ancient time that isn't relevant at all in modern times, coupled to the overwhelming disingenuous nature of how traditional religions are presented these days.

So people just reject it all. People become secular because under those circumstances, there isn't another true choice.

But that will change.

 

 

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I don't especially value faith in dogma. The dogma is wrong, and blind faith allows people not to see that. 

For the second question, Christians will just have to learn to live in a state of ambiguity, like everyone else. No one actually has all the answers. 

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22 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

How can Christians live in a world that has lost it's absolutes?

By embracing Jesus and only focusing on being as absolutely Jesusonian as possible.

 

Would you like to know how to do that?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Sine secularization is basically this: where religious ideas,institutions,and interpretation have lost their social significance  in modern times by way of process of secularization.

Two questions.

#1 Do you care about your faith anymore?

#2 How can Christians live in a world that has lost it's absolutes.

 

 

 

 

So you don't see non-Christains as being good in essence? If you were in dire need of medical help or the protection from the police would you refuse them and the help that they could give you simply because you think that they are lesser than your self image even when all mankind is created in the image of the god that you profess to have absolute faith in? Maybe there is a reason that your god sent a secular person to your aide. I am not so sure that humility is a part of your religious perspective after reading your posts, you continuallycomment that people express hate against you for your faith and I am not seeing that.

What I do see is that you encourage negativity with your comments and tend to express control issues none of this reflects on your faith in God so much as people see it as an insecure person who clings to her faith like a smoker to a cigarette.

jmccr8 

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45 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Sine secularization is basically this: where religious ideas,institutions,and interpretation have lost their social significance  in modern times by way of process of secularization.

Two questions.

#1 Do you care about your faith anymore?

#2 How can Christians live in a world that has lost it's absolutes.

 

 

 

 

Just like everyone else should. Keep your faith and religion to yourself. Cherish it but do not impose it on others.

That includes all, christians, muslims, jews, believers and nonbelievers.

After all, we are one human race on this planet.

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Religious Faith, with a capital F, can no more be imposed on others than can be belief in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. At most, others can be required to abide by the tenets of a religion, as in Islam, up to and including ostensibly joining it. That constitutes secular imposition.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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There will always be varying interpretations and misinterpretation in practically everything. And it's not just with religious writings. Even Shakespeare has varying translations depending on the edition and the publication. Chaucer anyone?? (Though, he's fun to interpret. ;) ) 

I often have seen, feel, observed, of the many different religions, that have sprung from previous religions, because of how the founders feel how it should be interpreted. I remember a conversation with a JW, (it was an awesome conversation. No attempt to conversion, just answering my questions.) who said that they didn't practice celebrating birthdays, because of how they felt they read about Jesus being killed or something close to that. My point to that is, I took it as someone's religion interpreted something from literature of another religion, and assumed something different, which became part of another religion. This being from what I have been told, and I could be wrong. (I can understand if JW's would want to correct this.) 

And if we're going to talk about secularization: "Secularization refers to the historical process in which religion loses social and cultural significance. As a result of secularization the role of religion in modern societies becomes restricted. In secularized societies faith lacks cultural authority, and religious organizations have little social power."

Link.

Are we talking about religion in regards of living in secular societies? Well, if it's legal, your religion, belief, or what have you, is your private affair. You public and participation in society, is an understand and acceptance of everyone else. 

I don't think there should be a conflict of how anyone of a particular belief would feel living in a secular society. In fact, one would feel, I think, grateful, because they are allowed to practice their beliefs, but must remember others can too. (and practice no belief) 

Going back to writings, well, what does one expect of anything writing in the past. societies grow, changes, becomes different. The language and writings do too. So, in the end, it's going to be that there will be different interpretations of anything written so long ago. More so, with religious writings, because of the secular societies living their secular ways, and having varying religions grow among it selves in their own little areas. 

How can Christians live in a secular society? Well, just as how I have seen them live. They do their living, just like anyone else, and be Christians in their own private lives. Like the Jewish, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. and the non-religious. I think it's up to each, to keep their belief strong within themselves. 

Secular societies do not favor one religion over another, so I think it's a non-issue. 

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The prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular—humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists.

 

 

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I've yet to understand this concept that has taken over the Christian mindset in the west that their faith should be politically imposed on the masses.

If you truly had faith (or most likely courage) in your God, you would boldly and confidently evangelize to the masses, rather than try to enact laws requiring others to adhere to your religious principles. If you successfully convert a non-believer to your religion, then you won't have to impose your beliefs onto them. They'd willingly adhere to the tenets.

To me it's a sign of great insecurity in the efficacy of your position, that you feel it necessary to go the political route to convert the populace.

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@Aquila King

You and I are not supposed to "like" the same thing. ^

See Stubbly's post #8

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular—humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists.

 

 

I find this very interesting, Will. Especially the part of professed Christians being unwittingly secularists. I wonder though, I think a lot of them, do know. I think, a lot of them, understand and feel a part of the secular society. 

I do think, within the privacy and areas of their lives, anyone of a religion, is keeping their religion alive. Yes, a lot go to services and these services would be hosted, taught, and so forth, by those who have the requirements to teach what is considered true writings, and interpret them as they are educated to do so. 

I wonder, and going back to what you said, could it be, professed Christians being unwittingly secular, is just them going out into society, keeping their religion segregated within the confines of their private lives? 

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1 minute ago, Will Due said:

@Aquila King

You and I are not supposed to "like" the same thing. ^

Oh but why not? :lol: What, we're not allowed to agree with each other, ever? ;)

I'd consider it a rare privilege on your part. :P

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3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

@Aquila King

You and I are not supposed to "like" the same thing. ^

See Stubbly's post #8

Where in that post, does it say you and AK cannot like the same thing? I'm confused. :huh: 

1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

Oh but why not? :lol: What, we're not allowed to agree with each other, ever? ;)

I'd consider it a rare privilege on your part. :P

Exactly. In fact, isn't this the part of secular life?  Being true to one's self and their religion, while accepting and encouraging of others to be true and accepting in their religion. 

I would think, my post conveyed that it was a wonderful thing you two could like the same post. :blink: 

 

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27 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

There will always be varying interpretations and misinterpretation in practically everything. And it's not just with religious writings. Even Shakespeare has varying translations depending on the edition and the publication. Chaucer anyone?? (Though, he's fun to interpret. ;) ) 

I often have seen, feel, observed, of the many different religions, that have sprung from previous religions, because of how the founders feel how it should be interpreted. I remember a conversation with a JW, (it was an awesome conversation. No attempt to conversion, just answering my questions.) who said that they didn't practice celebrating birthdays, because of how they felt they read about Jesus being killed or something close to that. My point to that is, I took it as someone's religion interpreted something from literature of another religion, and assumed something different, which became part of another religion. This being from what I have been told, and I could be wrong. (I can understand if JW's would want to correct this.) 

And if we're going to talk about secularization: "Secularization refers to the historical process in which religion loses social and cultural significance. As a result of secularization the role of religion in modern societies becomes restricted. In secularized societies faith lacks cultural authority, and religious organizations have little social power."

Link.

Are we talking about religion in regards of living in secular societies? Well, if it's legal, your religion, belief, or what have you, is your private affair. You public and participation in society, is an understand and acceptance of everyone else. 

I don't think there should be a conflict of how anyone of a particular belief would feel living in a secular society. In fact, one would feel, I think, grateful, because they are allowed to practice their beliefs, but must remember others can too. (and practice no belief) 

Going back to writings, well, what does one expect of anything writing in the past. societies grow, changes, becomes different. The language and writings do too. So, in the end, it's going to be that there will be different interpretations of anything written so long ago. More so, with religious writings, because of the secular societies living their secular ways, and having varying religions grow among it selves in their own little areas. 

How can Christians live in a secular society? Well, just as how I have seen them live. They do their living, just like anyone else, and be Christians in their own private lives. Like the Jewish, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. and the non-religious. I think it's up to each, to keep their belief strong within themselves. 

Secular societies do not favor one religion over another, so I think it's a non-issue. 

This ^ is sheer genius. Well done. :tu:

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Just now, Aquila King said:

This ^ is sheer genius. Well done. :tu:

:blush:   Aww, shucks. thanks. 

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Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Where in that post, does it say you and AK cannot like the same thing? I'm confused. :huh: 

Exactly. In fact, isn't this the part of secular life?  Being true to one's self and their religion, while accepting and encouraging of others to be true and accepting in their religion. 

I would think, my post conveyed that it was a wonderful thing you two could like the same post. :blink: 

Oh I think he's just kidding, but I might be wrong... :blink:

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Just now, Aquila King said:

Oh I think he's just kidding, but I might be wrong... :blink:

No AK.

I don't just like you.

I LOVE YOU MAN.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

No AK.

I don't just like you.

I LOVE YOU MAN.

giphy.gif

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Dear God, we're not even off the first page and I'm derailing another one. :wacko:

Somebody slap me!

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Most relationships start out with similar or opposing views and given time we all agree and disagree on different issues and this is a part of the learning and loving in life. There are times though that people get caught up in their opposition and fail to see points of agreement.

jmccr8 

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8 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I find this very interesting, Will. Especially the part of professed Christians being unwittingly secularists. I wonder though, I think a lot of them, do know. I think, a lot of them, understand and feel a part of the secular society. 

I do think, within the privacy and areas of their lives, anyone of a religion, is keeping their religion alive. Yes, a lot go to services and these services would be hosted, taught, and so forth, by those who have the requirements to teach what is considered true writings, and interpret them as they are educated to do so. 

I wonder, and going back to what you said, could it be, professed Christians being unwittingly secular, is just them going out into society, keeping their religion segregated within the confines of their private lives? 

In case you were wondering, that was a quote taken from the UB previously.

Here's another one that speaks further to "religious" folk actually being unwittingly secularists. Emphasis is mine btw.

 

"Evolutionary man does not naturally relish hard work. To keep pace in his life experience with the impelling demands and the compelling urges of a growing religious experience means incessant activity in spiritual growth, intellectual expansion, factual enlargement, and social service. There is no real religion apart from a highly active personality. Therefore do the more indolent of men often seek to escape the rigors of truly religious activities by a species of ingenious self-deception through resorting to a retreat to the false shelter of stereotyped religious doctrines and dogmas. But true religion is alive. Intellectual crystallization of religious concepts is the equivalent of spiritual death. You cannot conceive of religion without ideas, but when religion once becomes reduced only to an idea, it is no longer religion; it has become merely a species of human philosophy."

 

 

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It wasn't until Jerry Falwell came out with his Moral Majority movement in the eighties that this whole politicized Christianity thing became such a huge deal. Before then Christians were literally anything politically. Now though being a Christian is suddenly somehow synonymous with being a Republican. But it wasn't always like that I'm sad to say.

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5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Most relationships start out with similar or opposing views and given time we all agree and disagree on different issues and this is a part of the learning and loving in life. There are times though that people get caught up in their opposition and fail to see points of agreement.

jmccr8 

Am I crazy or is this sort of thing getting worse? :( It feels like people are distancing themselves from each other more and more, not allowing to associate themselves with anyone to which they disagree. Why can't people just agree to disagree? Why can't we be civil? I don't know. I may just simply be over-generalizing. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there. It just really feels like this is the case a lot of the time now... :hmm:

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2 hours ago, Will Due said:

Which is due to the language of religion being out of touch with reality. From and about an ancient time that isn't relevant at all in modern times, coupled to the overwhelming disingenuous nature of how traditional religions are presented these days.

So people just reject it all. People become secular because under those circumstances, there isn't another true choice.

But that will change.

 

 

I have a lot to say  about this. You see, I know now whats been going on.I will be sharing what I've learned. But I get it.

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