Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Why do you guys keep spouting this nonsense? If firearms were illegal in the US, it would be almost impossible for any regular citizen to get their hands on this type of machinery. It would be incredibly difficult for an ordinary citizen to even acquire a normal hand gun. Look at any western country with strict gun laws and you'll find your evidence.

 

There are more guns in this country than there are people.  If the government decided to vote to remove our second amendment rights there would be Civil War in this country that would make 50 dead a DAILY occurrence, possibly for years.  The reason this particular guy was able to do so much damage was that he actually DID have a fully automatic, military-style weapon.  It is possible that he owned it legally, I guess, but I'd wait on the evidence for that.

The aspect of these events that Europeans either can't grasp or don't care to do is that Americans have been heavily armed for many years, yet such slaughters are a very recent addition to our culture.  Yes, one can find instances from decades ago but they were extremely limited and ALWAYS a result of mental illness.  Today, the culture seems to be breaking down and turning on itself.  

We "get" that you in Europe simply don't understand the gun culture but please don't imagine that you understand us better than we understand ourselves.  

[FLOMBIE]

24 minutes ago, and then said:

These weapons are controlled by Federal laws.  An individual could sell one to a private individual legally, ONLY after that person could prove they had been approved by the ATF and had received a "stamp" (certification) to own a full-auto.  If the guy bought it from someone who had stolen it, of course, no law can prevent that.  There are severe legal penalties for transferring such weapons outside the system that is controlled by the ATF.  To give you an idea of how difficult it is to deal with the FEDs on special weapons, my nephew decided that he wanted a suppressor for a short barrelled rifle.  He needed a "tax stamp" for the suppressor and the rifle.  The rifle was not a full-auto, it just had a very short barrel length.  The suppressor was the screw-on type and cost him about 200$.  He is STILL waiting, after more than a year for approval of his suppressor.  Once he gets his stamp, that rifle and suppressor HAVE to be in his possession or locked away all the time.  If he forgot and left the weapon in his truck and his wife or friend used the vehicle to go on an errand and they happened to be stopped for a traffic violation they could be charged with Felony possession of a controlled weapon and if convicted could go to Federal prison for about 10 years, IIRC.

Nice anecdote, but was that in Nevada? Why don't you have a universal law for the entire country? 

[FLOMBIE]

15 minutes ago, and then said:

There are more guns in this country than there are people.  If the government decided to vote to remove our second amendment rights there would be Civil War in this country that would make 50 dead a DAILY occurrence, possibly for years.  The reason this particular guy was able to do so much damage was that he actually DID have a fully automatic, military-style weapon.  It is possible that he owned it legally, I guess, but I'd wait on the evidence for that.

The aspect of these events that Europeans either can't grasp or don't care to do is that Americans have been heavily armed for many years, yet such slaughters are a very recent addition to our culture.  Yes, one can find instances from decades ago but they were extremely limited and ALWAYS a result of mental illness.  Today, the culture seems to be breaking down and turning on itself.  

We "get" that you in Europe simply don't understand the gun culture but please don't imagine that you understand us better than we understand ourselves.  

So your country is pretty much screwed and swarmed with illegal guns because of your lax gun laws of the past. Nice scenario. You pretty much made any sensible gun legislation unenforceable. 

[D.O'N]

Damn, such a shame, all they were doing was living their life and havig fun, it is so unfair. R.I.P to the victims, and i hope the injured get well soon.

[Lilly]

It's not reasonable to think that America can become 'gun free' and ergo solve this type of problem. However, control on assault type weapons would at least make it more difficult for those planning this type of attack. Keep in mind that there will still be illegal arms dealers. I do believe France is 'gun free' (?) and yet they have had plenty of attacks where the terrorists used firearms.

[kartikg]

How difficult or different it would have been if the shooter didn't possess auto rifle? i am no expert and I know that non auto means he should just keep pulling the trigger, given his location and the crowd he could have caused the same death toll and carnage, am I mistaken? if yes what would be the death toll without the auto rifle? 

[Agent0range]

The right already talking Isis, the left already talking gun control.  The least you fools can do is give it a couple days.

[+and-then]

14 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I absolutely heartbroken over the news.  My heart goes out to all the victims and their families.

When will these senseless mass-murders ever cease?

I am sick and disgusted with the senseless loss of life as well, AK.  There is no way to remove 300 million firearms from the lawful possession of millions of Americans without far worse numbers of dead and the tearing of our national fabric into pieces.  IF it could be done voluntarily, the only people with firearms would be the criminal element and the government.  People who delude themselves into believing that they can trust the government always, eventually wind up like the people in New Orleans, after hurricane Katrina or, even worse, like the citizens of Nazi Germany or the old Soviet Union.  The government controls everything and the people have no way to effectively resist.  Our founding fathers understood this and wrote extensively about it.  Perhaps, today we should remember the dead and once we know (if ever) who this man was and why he acted, we can discuss the bigger picture.

[RavenHawk]

13 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Why do you guys keep spouting this nonsense? If firearms were illegal in the US, it would be almost impossible for any regular citizen to get their hands on this type of machinery. It would be incredibly difficult for an ordinary citizen to even acquire a normal hand gun. Look at any western country with strict gun laws and you'll find your evidence.

 

Because it isn't nonsense.  It's fact.  And none of that would have prevented someone with intent in getting a weapon.  Well, how's that working out for you there in Europe.  Killers are finding other means to kill in mass.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe more people have died in Europe in terrorist attacks (foreign and domestic) by other means than guns, than by guns here in the USA.  This is horrific but if you consider that the crowd was estimated at 22,000 (which is almost the number that die in auto accidents per year in this nation), the loss of life is no deadlier than any natural disaster.  But there will be those that will turn this into a crisis to impose gun control.  This is the first shooting where a fully automatic weapon was used.  Those are very difficult to get in the first place, but this guy did.  We have the 2nd Amendment so that the ruling elite can't impose gun control.

[+and-then]

7 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

So your country is pretty much screwed and swarmed with illegal guns because of your lax gun laws of the past. Nice scenario. You pretty much made any sensible gun legislation unenforceable. 

We have never even considered until recently, the idea of gun ownership being a national problem because until recently these types of things did not happen.  If you fear guns in the hands of the average person then your fear should keep you far away from America.  OTH, Germany's borders and immigration policies may cause you to become fearful even at home, soon enough.  Perhaps you should consider learning to safely use a firearm and stop being helpless in the face of mortal dangers to your family.  Or, just accept the role of being a sheep among a growing number of wolves.

[FLOMBIE]

5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Because it isn't nonsense.  It's fact.  And none of that would have prevented someone with intent in getting a weapon.  Well, how's that working out for you there in Europe.  Killers are finding other means to kill in mass.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe more people have died in Europe in terrorist attacks (foreign and domestic) by other means than guns, than by guns here in the USA.  This is horrific but if you consider that the crowd was estimated at 22,000 (which is almost the number that die in auto accidents per year in this nation), the loss of life is no deadlier than any natural disaster.  But there will be those that will turn this into a crisis to impose gun control.  This is the first shooting where a fully automatic weapon was used.  Those are very difficult to get in the first place, but this guy did.  We have the 2nd Amendment so that the ruling elite can't impose gun control.

Yes, there is no difference in using a knife or a full auto gun. Give me a break. 

I highly doubt that more people died of terrorist attacks in Europe than of guns in the US. Do you have anything to back that up? 

[aztek]

Just now, Uncle Sam said:

I know this is sarcasm, but some people don't realize. I am going to spell it out for them. 49 out of 50 states ban owning or using assault rifles. I had to go to Los Vegas to even shoot one at the range, at the time I didn't realize los vegas allowed to own one. Thought it was one of those, shoot a gun from the military once in your life. It isn't easy to get assault rifles off the black market, but it isn't impossible either.

more than 1 state allows full auto, but it is nfa weapon requires special atf approval, and they cost 5k and up.

[FLOMBIE]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

We have never even considered until recently, the idea of gun ownership being a national problem because until recently these types of things did not happen.  If you fear guns in the hands of the average person then your fear should keep you far away from America.  OTH, Germany's borders and immigration policies may cause you to become fearful even at home, soon enough.  Perhaps you should consider learning to safely use a firearm and stop being helpless in the face of mortal dangers to your family.  Or, just accept the role of being a sheep among a growing number of wolves.

Don't derail it. And btw, we recently arrested suspects who wanted to obtain weapons of war illegally. It's not as easy as you want to make it sound. 

I'm not a sheep. And I don't need a gun to feel like a wolf, or a herder. You damn cool cowboys! You only care about your personal interests, e.g. your own guns. 

E: Until recently? You had mass shootings regularly for a pretty long time now. Yet I still only see grown men crying like babies about losing their guns. It's no surprise that among the first incoming posts are many that don't want anyone to blame this on your laws for at least a tiny bit. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by FLOMBIE

[Aquila King]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

I am sick and disgusted with the senseless loss of life as well, AK.  There is no way to remove 300 million firearms from the lawful possession of millions of Americans without far worse numbers of dead and the tearing of our national fabric into pieces.  IF it could be done voluntarily, the only people with firearms would be the criminal element and the government.  People who delude themselves into believing that they can trust the government always, eventually wind up like the people in New Orleans, after hurricane Katrina or, even worse, like the citizens of Nazi Germany or the old Soviet Union.  The government controls everything and the people have no way to effectively resist.  Our founding fathers understood this and wrote extensively about it.  Perhaps, today we should remember the dead and once we know (if ever) who this man was and why he acted, we can discuss the bigger picture.

What I'm even more sick of is people immediately using a tragedy such as this as a means to furthering a political agenda, regardless of what position that is.

Can we not just come together in unity and solidarity if only for a brief moment, before laying into each other over political disputes?

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Yes, there is no difference in using a knife or a full auto gun. Give me a break. 

I highly doubt that more people died of terrorist attacks in Europe than of guns in the US. Do you have anything to back that up? 

How many have died from trucks and bombs?

[Lilly]

ISIS is naturally happy about this, but that doesn't mean the shooter had to have been an ISIS radical terrorist (just one possible explanation). My neighbor just put forth another speculation, perhaps the shooter had a bone to pick with the military? The country music concert was full of military people on vacation. Until authorities investigate we just don't know the motive. Hopefully, the girlfriend and people who knew the man can answer these questions.

[RavenHawk]

I just got word that a co-worker was at the concert.  She and hubby are physically ok, but people were dropping around her.

[toast]

There are two components those make such desasters possible. The one is the insane individual and the other is the law that allow that the equipment involved is available for nearly everyone.

Edited October 2, 2017 by toast

[RavenHawk]

1 minute ago, toast said:

Ther are two components those make such desasters possible. The one is the insane individual and the other is the law that allow that the equipment involved is available for nearly everyone.

Except the law doesn't make full automatic weapons available for nearly everyone.

[aztek]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

Except the law doesn't make full automatic weapons available for nearly everyone.

absolutely, even those states that allow them, it is only allowed to select few with aft approval, but those foreigners always know better.

[+susieice]

Just put on the TV and heard about this. OMG. ISIS is claiming responsibility, but it isn't thought they had anything to do with this. So sorry and thinking of the victims and their families. 50 are dead and over 400 wounded.

[Will Due]

My niece and nephew were there. They survived, no injuries but one of their friends, standing next to a victim, got splattered with blood all over. 

 

 

[toast]

13 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Except the law doesn't make full automatic weapons available for nearly everyone.

The laws make it possible that these weapons are available and its not rocket science to convert them to full auto, so whats your point exactly?

[GoldenWolf]

36 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

So your country is pretty much screwed and swarmed with illegal guns because of your lax gun laws of the past. Nice scenario. You pretty much made any sensible gun legislation unenforceable. 

This country is screwed because the people have embraced nihilism like it's a valid form of spirituality.  They hate Government, laws and law enforcement and treat them as if it is the "The Great Beast Satan".  A complete loss of common sense.

[toast]

5 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

This country is screwed because the people have embraced nihilism like it's a valid form of spirituality.  They hate Government, laws and law enforcement and treat them as if it is the "The Great Beast Satan".  A complete loss of common sense.

Which brings up the question if the Categorical Imperative by Kant isnt teached in schools there or if yes, has been understood totally wrong.