Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[D.O'N]

5 minutes ago, LucidElement said:

Bless those people and their families. I cant imagine what would drive someone to do something like that. This guy was just a regular Joe from what they are saying now. Clearly a deeper investigation that just started should turn up more. But his 90 year old mother and his brother are in shock.

It always seems to be the ones you least expect most of the time. They always have people saying stuff like "i would never have guessed, i use to play football with him" etc. Until they dig deeper and find diaries etc and it all comes out.

[Will Due]

14 minutes ago, Essan said:

    Hope they pull through okay

Yeah, me too.

I just found out sad to report, so far, of the dozen or more of those injured that are people in mine and my families' circle of friends, one is dead.

 

 

[sees]

Wow...this just feels sick to me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41472895

[pallidin]

A purely investigative note, but, as just now reported by NBC news...

- Shooter's father, Patrick Paddock, was convicted of bank robbery.

- Shooter's father was at one time on the FBI'S 10 most wanted list.

- Shooter's father was, at least for a time, considered psychopathic and suicidal.

 

Whether or not any of this has anything to with his son, remains to be seen.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

36 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Yeah, me too.

I just found out sad to report, so far, of the dozen or more of those injured that are people in mine and my families' circle of friends, one is dead.

 

 

I'm so sorry, Will.       

[Lilly]

There has to be some reason this man would do such a thing. Even if it was just some schizophrenic delusion there has to be a motive. This is all just so sickening, I feel terrible for the victims and their families.

[glorybebe]

51 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Yeah, me too.

I just found out sad to report, so far, of the dozen or more of those injured that are people in mine and my families' circle of friends, one is dead.

 

 

So sorry to hear that.  It is just senseless for this to have happened.

[Essan]

58 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Yeah, me too.

I just found out sad to report, so far, of the dozen or more of those injured that are people in mine and my families' circle of friends, one is dead.

 

  

 

[travelnjones]

22 minutes ago, Lilly said:

There has to be some reason this man would do such a thing. Even if it was just some schizophrenic delusion there has to be a motive. This is all just so sickening, I feel terrible for the victims and their families.

I don't like mondays -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego) not much sense there either

[FLOMBIE]

 

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

*snip*

We've had a misunderstanding. From the way you've formulated it, I thought you were talking about the total death toll of guns in the US as opposed to the total death toll of terrorism all over Europe. This is mostly because you've had less terrorist attacks in your country than the entire continent of Europe.

I still don't see the point that speaks for guns. 

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by FLOMBIE

[Setton]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

WTF?  Really?  In the last two years (this in not all inclusive I'm sure):

Non-gun attacks in Europe:

Las Ramblas 17 Aug 17:  by van:  13 dead 100+ injured

 

Finsbury Park 19 Jun 17:  by van:  1 dead 8 injured

 

Manchester 22 May 17:  by explosives:  22 dead 59 injured

 

Stockholm  7 Apr 17:  by truck:  4 dead 15 injured

 

Westminister 22 Mar 17:  by car: 5 dead

 

Berlin 20 Dec 16:  by truck:  12 dead 60 injured

 

Normandy 26 July 16:  by knife:  1 dead

 

Nice 14 Jul 16:  by truck:  84 dead 100+ injured

 

Brussels  22 Mar 16:  by bomb:  32 dead 300 injured

 

In 9 attacks, 174 killed and 642+ injured.  Over the same period, here in the US there were 18 incidents of which 9 where gun related, including Orlando, Dallas, and Baton Rouge).  In these, 65 were killed and 84 injured.  You may go back stuffing the other foot in your mouth.

 

Well you have picked the 9 biggest to compare with no consideration as to the importance of distance and accessibility from unstable countries. Not exactly a representative sample or viable comparison. 

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

 

We've had a misunderstanding. From the way you've formulated it, I thought you were talking about the total death toll of guns in the US as opposed to the total death toll of terrorist victims all over Europe. 

I still don't see the point that speaks for guns. 

 

The point is that even if you outlaw guns, people are still going to find ways of killing en masse.  And it seems that for the time being, non-gun mass violence is far more deadly.

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

The point is that even if you outlaw guns, people are still going to find ways of killing en masse.  And it seems that for the time being, non-gun mass violence is far more deadly.

The incident with the highest death toll in Europe was by gun. Go figure.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

WTF?  Really?  In the last two years (this in not all inclusive I'm sure):

Non-gun attacks in Europe:

Las Ramblas 17 Aug 17:  by van:  13 dead 100+ injured

 

Finsbury Park 19 Jun 17:  by van:  1 dead 8 injured

 

Manchester 22 May 17:  by explosives:  22 dead 59 injured

 

Stockholm  7 Apr 17:  by truck:  4 dead 15 injured

 

Westminister 22 Mar 17:  by car: 5 dead

 

Berlin 20 Dec 16:  by truck:  12 dead 60 injured

 

Normandy 26 July 16:  by knife:  1 dead

 

Nice 14 Jul 16:  by truck:  84 dead 100+ injured

 

Brussels  22 Mar 16:  by bomb:  32 dead 300 injured

 

In 9 attacks, 174 killed and 642+ injured.  Over the same period, here in the US there were 18 incidents of which 9 where gun related, including Orlando, Dallas, and Baton Rouge).  In these, 65 were killed and 84 injured.  You may go back stuffing the other foot in your mouth.

 

Just to follow up, complete stats for Europe are (rounded) 300 dead in 30 attacks. 

With this latest, US is on around 100 in 10 attacks with guns. 

So that's an average of 10 per attack both in Europe and US. 

What I would say however, is that it's much easier to prevent someone driving a lorry into a crowd than shooting from a hotel across the road. 

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

The incident with the highest death toll in Europe was by gun. Go figure.

But gun laws are stricter in Europe.

[FLOMBIE]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

Just to follow up, complete stats for Europe are (rounded) 300 dead in 30 attacks. 

With this latest, US is on around 100 in 10 attacks with guns. 

So that's an average of 10 per attack both in Europe and US. 

What I would say however, is that it's much easier to prevent someone driving a lorry into a crowd than shooting from a hotel across the road. 

Every open air party in Germany now has road blocks to prevent cars from driving into it. Even the tiny street festival around my corner a few months ago did that.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, pallidin said:

A purely investigative note, but, as just now reported by NBC news...

- Shooter's father, Patrick Paddock, was convicted of bank robbery.

- Shooter's father was at one time on the FBI'S 10 most wanted list.

- Shooter's father was, at least for a time, considered psychopathic and suicidal.

 

Whether or not any of this has anything to with his son, remains to be seen.

But you chose to post the implication anyway ?  

That is NOT a neutral position. Or are you suggesting a biblical "sins of the father" thingymabob ? 

[glorybebe]

I am to the point of avoiding all commenting on Americans drfending having so many guns and outsiders trying to convince them the root of their violence problem.  Those of us looking in cannot understand how the mind set works that there is not only the need for so many guns in the US, but people stating it is their constitutional right.   It is one of those arguments that we all need to agree to disagree.  We all have our opinions and are not going to see the other side.  

Let's focus on the why of people doing things like this and trying to stop it in the future by researching signs that these people give off.  It is alway 20/20 hindsight where clues start popping up that could have led to these instances being prevented.

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

But gun laws are stricter in Europe.

Yes, if they had fully functional AKs, and not the ****ty old things they had to use, which jammed quite a lot, the toll would have been much higher. 

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, glorybebe said:

I am to the point of avoiding all commenting on Americans drfending having so many guns and outsiders trying to convince them the root of their violence problem.  Those of us looking in cannot understand how the mind set works that there is not only the need for so many guns in the US, but people stating it is their constitutional right.   It is one of those arguments that we all need to agree to disagree.  We all have our opinions and are not going to see the other side.  

Let's focus on the why of people doing things like this and trying to stop it in the future by researching signs that these people give off.  It is alway 20/20 hindsight where clues start popping up that could have led to these instances being prevented.

Problems have multiple causes. 

[RoofGardener]

6 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

But gun laws are stricter in Europe.

The guns used by Islamic Supremacists in  Paris where illegal in Europe, as they would be in the USA. They where brought in by Islamic Jihadists in defiance of French law. What is your point ? 

Moving on... the murderer in Las Vegas doesn't appear to be a political or religious 'terrorist'... so far as we know. So can we stop talking about Islamic Terrorism ? 

Now, here is the thing I am REALLY interested in. Radio articles in the UK refer to "belt-fed machine guns". I've heard the audio recordings of the gunfire... it seems to be.. dunno.. around 4 bullets per second... give or take... for bursts of 10 seconds, and then 30 second gaps before another 10 second bursts. (the assumption is that this was for reloading). 

Does anyone here know what types of guns fit that "profile" ? 

Edited October 2, 2017 by RoofGardener

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Yeah, me too.

I just found out sad to report, so far, of the dozen or more of those injured that are people in mine and my families' circle of friends, one is dead.

I'm very sorry to hear that Will Due. My commiserations.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by RoofGardener

[Kismit]

It would be awfully nice if we could perhaps have a few days to come together and console each other over this sad, tragic, and awful event.

The human beings affected by it are just like us, different political ideals, religions, and not one of the victims wanted this to happen (regardless of gun rights/laws).

Can we please just takke a few days of thoughts for the victims and thier families before we fight about our own beliefs.

[aztek]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

The guns used by Islamic Supremacists in  Paris where illegal in Europe, as they would be in the USA. They where brought in by Islamic Jihadists in defiance of French law. What is your point ? 

Moving on... the murderer in Las Vegas doesn't appear to be a political or religious 'terrorist'... so far as we know. So can we stop talking about Islamic Terrorism ? 

Now, here is the thing I am REALLY interested in. Radio articles in the UK refer to "belt-fed machine guns". I've heard the audio recordings of the gunfire... it seems to be.. dunno.. around 4 bullets per second... give or take... for bursts of 10 seconds, and then 30 second gaps before another 10 second bursts. (the assumption is that this was for reloading). 

Does anyone here know what types of guns fit that "profile" ? 

many, from the video it actually sounded to me that rof was slow, ak like.  ak fires at 600rpm, 10 a second, ar fires at about 800,  mini uzi at over 1000.

i have no idea where they got belt fed info from, but it seems to me they just pulled it out of thin air. cops say he had over 10 rifles, if he had  belt fed gun he'd only need 1

Edited October 2, 2017 by aztek

[Essan]

The media often speculate so, especially in early reports, its best not to take too much notice of details