Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[preacherman76]

5 hours ago, Timonthy said:

My mind is stuck on a loop. Is America ready and open to real gun control? 

No. We have commies openly plotting violent overthrow.

Real gun control will only make this happen more often then it does, in places it otherwise never would have.

[Gromdor]

6 hours ago, Timonthy said:

My mind is stuck on a loop. Is America ready and open to real gun control? 

Gun sales/stocks are up.  Americans tend to buy more guns after a mass shooting.  http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/10/02/gun-stocks-higher-after-las-vegas-shooting.html

 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 hours ago, acidhead said:

5 hours ago, susieice said:

We can be thankful we don't understand what goes through the mind of a person who does something like this. He has caused so much sorrow to so many families, his own family and the rest of his nation. It's such an emotional time we are all going through.

 

I think its important to understand what goes through the mind of a person who does something like this.  

No offence to your post.  I get where you're coming from.

But it's important moving forward to get into that mind.. understand where it evolved to sensely murdering innocent individuals.

A senseless act of extreme violence.

Yet he acted.

There is a reason.

I agree with AcidHead here. I know, but no matter how dark someone's mind might be, we need to figure it out to get them the help they need, so we can really try to prevent this. I do feel, treating mental, psychological, and emotional health, is a tricky thing. But, I really wish we didn't ignore it and put it on the back burner. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

6 hours ago, Will Due said:

When "liberals" you know, the "tolerant" the beautiful, have lost their way to the point that they've fully embraced the intolerance of anyone who disagrees with them, embraced the idea that they don't deserve empathy, embraced the idea that violence against them and the destruction and theft of their property is acceptable, embraced the idea that they should be killed; civilization is most definitely breaking down.

Will, I am thinking of you, and I feel for you very strongly. ((HUGS)) 

I feel, that one of the problems is that we all jump to quick conclusions on this. I'm a liberal, and I really don't feel this way. I am NOT tolerant of violence and destruction on anyone. I don't think theft on my property is acceptable, or pretty much you were saying in your post. I do feel, and understand, why you are saying what you are saying, I really do. 

I think, we live in a time where knowledge, news, technology, is so quickly accessible, our minds and our actions have to catch up, to the point that we are overwhelmed. Shortcuts and quick judgments, I find, tend to be of use, just to keep above water of the 'in the know' and do your job and live your life in today's world. I really really really believe, we all need to stand back and access our feelings and observed everyone else in front of us. Just take a second to really have a moment of peace just to absorb this. (Because trust me, I feel very strong and quick feelings too, in all this. ) 

If anything, while viewing, listening, and reading the news about this horrible tragedy, people there also have jumped in to help, to save, to assist in getting the victims to the nearest hospital. Not just certain kinds of people there, all kinds of people there. I do not think blaming one group is really is going to help. I think we all need to access how we all are a part of this and how we view others. I learned, in the last several years, not to jump on the other side and say, 'it's their fault' and leave it up to them to 'shape up'. As I feel, they are also have contributions, and gifts, and thoughtful behaviors, I feel, myself, and my side, can be as negative and contribute negative behavior as well. To acknowledge our faults, is to take one step over another to help correct them. 

What has me sad, as well, like the time I waited on an older gentleman, while I told him I understand his point of view of things, I wanted to try to tell him, that I feel, both sides of the political climate is both needed and giving, he refused to hear my side and see how I feel, my political party is just as helpful, as much as causing some problems. If we want each other to listen to our complaints, we also need to listen to our gifts as well. I don't think, closing our minds and our ears to others, especially when they are ready to admit to their faults as well as understanding your gifts, is going to be the step forward. This will only stop them from doing that, and then I think, we get nowhere. 

I really do not think, the constant thought of the other side doing something that one is fearful is going to wreck the world is going to really be the answer. In fact, I feel, it would only further the separation more to the point that communication, (which is the key ingredient in trying to solve problems) cannot even be used. Not all liberals are the same. Not all conservatives are the same. Everyone is different, unique, and have the positives and the negatives to help and hinder something. I think we need to step in and identify that and then go from there. 

One part of me, again, is feeling the death, and the loss of life. Not just it being the loss of life, but the loss of friends, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, Aunts, Uncles, beloved co-workers and leaders.   And no matter, how much we could learn from this, and hope to make their deaths not in vain, they still are gone. Just as I feel for the victims of all these tragedies. All of the loss of those who have died from anything. 

I think we should always keep our memories of them in our hearts and in our goals for all of us, to work together. 

 

[Lilly]

People do things for a reason, not saying the reason has to be sane, but there is always a reason. This man targeted that particular group of concert goers, why? This man held tremendous hatred for something those folks represented to him, what fueled his hatred? HIs family says he had no beliefs, I call BS, the family may not have known his beliefs but he most certainly had them. In order to understand why he did what he did there has to be some very intense investigation.

Currently there is a forensic psychological analysis beginning to take place. This man's life will be investigated to the max in order to answer these questions. Right now we know he not only had multiple fire arms, he also had bomb making materials. There was planning involved, it wasn't a 'spur of the moment' thing and others may have been involved or have known about it. Something triggered this individual to target that particular group of people and this needs to be understood.

Personally, I would tend to look at the characteristics of the group of people he chose to target and slaughter as being a good clue for what fueled his hatred and go from there. Something tells me there will be a hell of a lot of activity (that we aren't privy to) in the coming days.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Gun sales/stocks are up.  Americans tend to buy more guns after a mass shooting.  http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/10/02/gun-stocks-higher-after-las-vegas-shooting.html

 

American logic in a nutshell  

[Sakari]

On 10/2/2017 at 3:06 AM, Essan said:

"Nevada has some of the least stringent gun laws in the United States.

People are allowed to carry weapons and do not have to register themselves as a gun-owner.

Background checks are done when people buy guns, but they are also allowed to sell them privately.

The state does not ban assault weapons, which are automatic or semi-automatic firearms, and there are no limits on buying ammunition there."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

 

They are NOT allowed anywhere alcohol is served. Especially Casinos! (Nevada resident over 40 years)
Let me make this clear, it is not against the law per say. But, it IS NOT ALLOWED.

It is legal to carry openly or concealed inside a casino, on the Las Vegas Strip, or at the Fremont Street Experience. Most casinos will ask you to leave or disarm if they observe you carrying firearms, but it is not a crime unless you refuse to leave or comply (only trespassing).

Same in Arizona. No guns in drinking establishments.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Sakari

[Sakari]

On 02/10/2017 at 4:26 PM, Gromdor said:

Wow, This one attack is almost as bad as all those all put together.

 

Let me help you out, leaving out the "smaller" numbers that add up fast. And some other substantial numbered killings. Psychos that want to mass kill, will mass kill. They do not need guns, and will find a way to finish their goal.......And pretty much all of below had access to guns if they so desired in their killing plans. They chose otherwise.

1. In one of the bloodiest massacres in Nigerian history, more than 500 Christians were butchered near the city of Jos by machete-wielding Muslims in March of 2010. The attack, which didn't spare toddlers or infants, was reportedly in reprisal for Christian attacks on Muslims two months earlier.

2.9/11...Need not say more.

3.Before the 9/11 attacks, the deadliest single non-natural disaster in American history occurred on November 18, 1978, in Guyana.

That's when Peoples Temple cult leader Jim Jones ordered 912 (mostly American) men, women, and children to drink Grape Flavor-Aid laced with cyanide and Valium.

4.Timothy McVeigh used fuel oil and fertilizer to build the Ryder truck bomb that exploded in front of a federal building in Oklahoma City in April of 1995.

A total of 168 people perished in what was then the deadliest terror attack on American soil.

5.The Sandy Hook massacre was not the largest mass murder at an American school. That occurred way back on May 18, 1927, at the Bath Consolidated School in Michigan.

The school's caretaker was apparently angry about property taxes; so he placed dynamite at numerous spots around the school over a period of months and then set a timer for the explosion to occur during classes. A total of 45 people died that day in Bath Township.

6.That was all Julio Gonzalez (pictured above) needed to set the Happy Land social club in Brooklyn on fire in March of 1990. After starting the fire near the entrance, he pulled down the metal gate and left 87 people inside to burn or suffocate to death within minutes.

The reason? Gonzalez had gotten into a heated argument earlier that evening with his girlfriend, who was checking coats inside the club.

[Myles]

31 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

American logic in a nutshell  

It's really just a response to the increased possibility of extreme gun control.  

Not really a downside as the value of guns usually increases. 

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Lilly said:

....Personally, I would tend to look at the characteristics of the group of people he chose to target and slaughter as being a good clue for what fueled his hatred and go from there......

perhaps he was a music lover ?

In regard gun control: what is the logic in that when the guns he used where illegal under US law ANYWAY ? (well... we don't know that for SURE yet, but it's a good guess.. )

Edited October 3, 2017 by RoofGardener

[Setton]

12 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I can't get past the woman who said that "they were all going to die". She said that they were surrounded. That's a huge coincidence, like winning the Lotto after getting a hole in one before getting struck by lightning while getting a phone call from a long lost friend right after you think about him, so you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to find it odd. People do and say crazy things, but it's weird that she would say that at that particular place and time. It's very rare to have that happen at any event, so I hope that they get to the bottom of this.

It looks like an incredible coincidence but I'd be inclined to chalk it up to the law of large numbers. Lots of people are killed all around the world , lots of people shout about everyone going to die. Sooner or later the two coincide. But we never mention the thousands of occasions when they don't. So it looks incredible on that one occasion. 

[Timothy]

2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

...

Real gun control will only make this happen more often then it does, in places it otherwise never would have.

I just can’t see the logic. How?

[D.O'N]

Just now, Setton said:

It looks like an incredible coincidence but I'd be inclined to chalk it up to the law of large numbers. Lots of people are killed all around the world , lots of people shout about everyone going to die. Sooner or later the two coincide. But we never mention the thousands of occasions when they don't. So it looks incredible on that one occasion. 

It is creepy though, i honestly believe it was just by chance but still...how eerie.

[Sakari]

21 hours ago, aztek said:

Las Vegas shooting: Woman told crowd 'you're all going to ****ing die' before attack started

Concert goers were told “You’re all going to ****ing die” less than an hour before the Las Vegas shooting started, it has been claimed.

A woman in the crowd is said to have yelled the warning about 45 minutes before the Route 91 Harvest festival became the venue for the worst mass shooting in US history.

After her outburst, it was claimed, the woman and her male companion were made to leave the venue by security.

Less than an hour later, an attack began that left at least 50 people dead.

Witness Brianna Hendricks, said the woman had been behaving strangely before her outburst.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-woman-told-125452849.html

Walk down the Vegas strip any weekend, Hell any night. You will hear this or similar quite a bit.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Sakari

[Lilly]

Sadly, some people do not like, nor do they feel any sympathy for, the victims of this horrible act. CBS News actually fired one of their executives for just such an attitude.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cbs-fires-legal-exec-las-vegas-1202578075/

Could the shooter have simply hated the group of people he targeted? Perhaps he hated military people, conservatives, people he viewed as being 'rednecks', or even just country music itself? Perhaps the investigation will shed some light on all this...the motive might even be something no one has yet even considered.

[Sakari]

21 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Sadly, some people do not like, nor do they feel any sympathy for, the victims of this horrible act. CBS News actually fired one of their executives for just such an attitude.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cbs-fires-legal-exec-las-vegas-1202578075/

Could the shooter have simply hated the group of people he targeted? Perhaps he hated military people, conservatives, people he viewed as being 'rednecks', or even just country music itself? Perhaps the investigation will shed some light on all this...the motive might even be something no one has yet even considered.

The shooter obviously had some kind of Psychological issues. It takes more than hate to do this alone. We will never know, just as most mass killings.

[Uncle Sam]

6 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

That is not true. The shooter illegally modified two of his rifles to fire automatically. 

You do realize, I posted that when the information was still sketchy...

[aztek]

Just now, Timonthy said:

My mind is stuck on a loop. Is America ready and open to real gun control ? 

you mean confiscation like you had?? hell no.

[Uncle Sam]

Let's get the facts first!

[+susieice]

I found this about the weapons the shooter used.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/03/gunman-had-a-bump-stock-device-that-could-speed-fire.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/vegas-shooters-weapons-cache-included-devices-enabling-automatic-gunfire-report-says.amp.html

Edited October 3, 2017 by susieice

[preacherman76]

2 hours ago, Timonthy said:

I just can’t see the logic. How?

Well if you look at most mass shootings, they happen in area's where guns are restricted, or out right banned. Night clubs, schools, and now concerts. They happen in those  places because the shooter knows they will have time to do as much damage as possible before a equal or greater force can stop them. 

If we take away guns, all places will be left just as vulnerable as the restricted area's we have now. No one will be able to defend themselves from such people. 

There are hundreds of cases every year where a law abiding citizen with a gun was able to stop a attacker. Like the Muslim guy just last week who was going to slaughter a entire church, but was stopped by a heroic man with a gun. 

We had a thread here not long ago that was many pages long showing other examples of hero's with guns stopping murder and other crimes. 

[Lilly]

46 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

For both the shooter and his room mate, their Facebook pages were taken down yesterday. According to Facebook comments, both pages were covered in anti-Trump material...

I hope you realize that all this stuff is only unsubstantiated rumor. No one (outside of law enforcement anyway) knows if the shooter was anti or pro Trump, right or left wing, Republican or Democrat.

We simply don't know this man's motivation at this point in time.

I have removed all the accusations based on rumors and personal dislikes. Please stop with the blame game.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

It's really just a response to the increased possibility of extreme gun control.  

Not really a downside as the value of guns usually increases. 

He understands, he just wants to remind us what he thinks of us at a time when so many are grieving.  Making petty, political observations while others struggle with the horror of it all is exactly the kind of person he is.  Kind of like the CBS attorney who showed her near-pathological hatred of Republicans yesterday - and was fired by CBS (good on 'em!)  Karma has a way of landing on such people like a ton of bricks.

[Dark_Grey]

3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I hope you realize that all this stuff is only unsubstantiated rumor. No one (outside of law enforcement anyway) knows if the shooter was anti or pro Trump, right or left wing, Republican or Democrat.

We simply don't know this man's motivation at this point in time.

...right. All I did was provide a screencap of a tweet and relay what I read and saw this morning as I was reading about this tragedy on Facebook. Not sure what removing my post accomplishes. Like the Facebook pages of the shooter and his roomie, once the information is out there removing said information makes everyone highly suspect.

[Lilly]

Look, if the Facebook stuff is real (as in the shooter did have anti Trump stuff all over the place) then it will eventually be officially released. Until such time all this kind of thing does is to further upset people.

So, we all take a deep breath and stay calm until we have some factual/official information.