Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[The Narcisse]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

also there was  ammo unused, cops did not enter the room for more than an hour,  with full auto weapons, few thousands of rounds will be gone in no more than 10-20 minutes, why there is still unused ammo there?

Maybe the ammo was unused because the police were able to pinpoint his location quicker than he imagined so he stopped firing at the crowd to try to find his way out of the room. When he realized there was no way out, he took his own life. I imagine once the police had the room surrounded he lost he would be forced to turn his attention elsewhere. 

[Dark_Grey]

6 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Let's see here, tons of guns and ammo, 2 windows broken out, food for 2 being ordered, the Vegas Sheriff saying Paddock "had help". IMO there's another person out there who probably had second thoughts and pulled out before the shooting. The authorities need to find that person.

Exactly what I was thinking. Based on what we know, that seems very plausible. The question then is how many people were involved? Two shooters plus "foot soldiers" on the ground taunting people? Were there supposed to be more than two shooters? The help Paddock was supposed to get either bailed on him out of fear or never planned on helping him to begin with. 

Scenario: a group of hooligans want to commit a mass shooting for reasons unknown at this time. They need someone with money, resources, access to guns. Enter Paddock: seasoned alcoholic, gun enthusiast and gambler at the end of his rope. But he's also a millionaire. Through a series of conversations with the group online, he agrees to help their cause. Unbeknownst to him, the group was planning on making him the patsy (why should they get their hands dirty?). Paddock is emotionally unstable and looking for recognition so he ignores all the red flags along the way. He just lost big money on his last bet so why not go out with a bang? Over the course of several months, he begins stockpiling weapons and ammo as per the request of the group, eager to execute the master plan and yet happy to belong. That brings us to ground zero.

[The Narcisse]

15 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Let's see here, tons of guns and ammo, 2 windows broken out, food for 2 being ordered, the Vegas Sheriff saying Paddock "had help". IMO there's another person out there who probably had second thoughts and pulled out before the shooting. The authorities need to find that person.

I hadn't heard about the food for 2(maybe he was just having a last meal and wanted 2 things off the menu?), The 2 windows were broken out to give him different angles to inflict damage, and the sheriff saying he "had help" i thought was only referencing the collection of the weapons and ammo and not the actual shooting. Somebody could've helped him find and purchase and even transport weapons and still know nothing about the plot.

[Gunn]

5 hours ago, Lilly said:

My daughter is in graduate school (Boston University). She is doing her practicum where she shadows a psychologist at a physical rehabilitation center (mostly traumatic brain injuries). Soon she will begin her dissertation with the goal of becoming a psychologist herself. I'm saying all this because I asked my daughter some questions having to do with this shooting and I want it to be clear that my source has some insight on the subject.

First, it's highly likely that Mr Paddock was a psychopath. Even psychopaths have motives for their actions. Now, their motives may make no sense to rational people but they do have reasons for doing what they do. Sometimes their source of motivation has to do with social/political/religious issues. Sometimes it has to do with internal psychological issues, for example feeling the need to be personally powerful by killing others (Kismit's hypothesis). My daughter thinks it's a bit odd that all of a sudden a 64 year old man suddenly became homicidal (no history of violent actions during his lifetime). She wonders if he could have had a physical illness (like a brain tumor) or if something external and traumatic triggered him to want to kill large numbers of people. Basically, when the media says there was 'no motive' for these murders that's not correct, there was a motive we just don't know what it was.  

As much as some people want to put the blame on terrorist groups like Isis or some anti-conservative hate group, I'm afraid your daughter's psychological assessment or possibly the abuse of alcohol with diazepam that sent him into madness is going to be either one of these sad facts in the end. This one is just going to be another one of those cases similar to Charles Whitman's case back in 1966.

I hate when this kind of thing happens because it's mostly senseless and it's such a unforeseen kind of event, but we are all going to have to face it for what it really is soon or later. People hate this kind of thing because it leaves so many unanswered questions, but then again, the logic behind a psychopath never makes sense in the first place.

ETA: I mean for all we know, he could of been thinking he was doing the environment a favor by trying to reduce the population. God only knows what was going on in his twisted mind at the time.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Purifier

[pallidin]

2 hours ago, Lilly said:

Let's see here, tons of guns and ammo, 2 windows broken out, food for 2 being ordered, the Vegas Sheriff saying Paddock "had help". IMO there's another person out there who probably had second thoughts and pulled out before the shooting. The authorities need to find that person.

 

1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Based on what we know, that seems very plausible. The question then is how many people were involved? Two shooters plus "foot soldiers" on the ground taunting people? Were there supposed to be more than two shooters? The help Paddock was supposed to get either bailed on him out of fear or never planned on helping him to begin with. 

 

I would tend to agree with both of you. Something doesn't add-up here.

There seems to have been way too many guns for just one person, 2 windows were broken out as if to accommodate a second shooter, and 2 people were listed on at least one of the room service receipts.

That second shooter WAS there at the beginning (in my opinion), but bailed at some point before the shooting started (or just after) and never came back.

--------------

Of course, all of my above is pure speculation and may not at all have happened that way.

Edited October 6, 2017 by pallidin

[pallidin]

Finally Some Info on the Note !

Source: https://www.today.com/video/las-vegas-shooter-s-note-in-hotel-room-is-under-investigation-1064137283972

----------------------

Extracted from an exchange on the Today show:

"...What more do we know about this note?"

"There was a note. You can see it in one of the pictures leaked by someone in the police department"

"...Yeah"

"Both local and federal authorities say this was not a suicide note, and it doesn't say anything obvious. It clearly doesn't say anything about the shooting, as it's apparently a bunch of numbers, and they're trying to figure-out what the significance of that is."

Edited October 6, 2017 by pallidin

[pallidin]

Dear Federal authorities:

 

>>> chanting<<<  Show us the note! 

                                        Show us the note! 

                                                         Show us the note! 

                                                                           Show us the note !!!!!!!!  >>> chanting <<<

 

There are some smart people out in this world... maybe we can help crack whatever it is.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by pallidin

[Will Due]

I'll speculate that Paddock was just a very cold person, materialistic, unspiritual and overly selfish.

Gambling as a way to live is not conducive to being a happy person.

But when he started taking valium while continuing to drink heavily, his mind finally distorted to a point of no return, because of all of his personal factors taken together, and succumbed to the worst in human experience and let loose hell as he took the last steps of a drug induced coward going off the cliff.

I find it interesting that the issue of his use of a psyche drug is not being discussed.

In my opinion, the proliferation of these dangerous doctor prescribed drugs is at the root of many terrible things going on in our society today. Every poor thing has a common solution these days.

Take a pill.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Will Due

[aztek]

Just now, Will Due said:

.

I find it interesting that the issue of his use of a psyche drug is not being discussed. In my opinion, the proliferation of these dangerous doctor prescribed drugs is at the root of many terrible things going on in our society today. Every poor thing has a common solution these days.

Take a pill.

 

it is a multi billion dollar busines, they wont let anyone talk about it, gun lobby is not nearly as rich and powerful as medical cartel. no news station will air anything about connection between meds, and murders, no one will investigate it, no politician will call for pill control. 

politicians do not give a damn about people being killed, they are afraid of guns in civilian hands thou, and do everything to remove it

[The Narcisse]

41 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Finally Some Info on the Note !

Source: https://www.today.com/video/las-vegas-shooter-s-note-in-hotel-room-is-under-investigation-1064137283972

----------------------

Extracted from an exchange on the Today show:

"...What more do we know about this note?"

"There was a note. You can see it in one of the pictures leaked by someone in the police department"

"...Yeah"

"Both local and federal authorities say this was not a suicide note, and it doesn't say anything obvious. It clearly doesn't say anything about the shooting, as it's apparently a bunch of numbers, and they're trying to figure-out what the significance of that is."

It's probably the coordinates to the island where the tiger that ate JFK lives.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

it is a multi billion dollar busines, they wont let anyone talk about it, gun lobby is not nearly as rich and powerful as medical cartel. no news station will air anything about connection between meds, and murders, no one will investigate it, no politician will call for pill control. 

politicians do not give a damn about people being killed, they are afraid of guns in civilian hands thou, and do everything to remove it

It's all very creepy.

 

 

[AnchorSteam]

15 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

I lied.

How shocking.  

 

11 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Remember guys.....'guns don't kill people, people kill people'

err....but mostly people with guns.

Statistically speaking.... no. More people are killed with Hammers than with Rifles, for example.

 

14 hours ago, Kismit said:

I have to admit I only got as far as the bit after the lecture about the wrongs of politisizing against whites, Christians or gun control.

The rush to use this crime for pushing a political agenda has been pretty hideous ... or don't you think so?

14 hours ago, Kismit said:

That bit after being when he started to speculate the shooter was radicalized and stated these where facts.

What part?

Molyneux has always been very concerned about the abuse of kids and the destructive effect this has on society as a whole. 

Gets to be a bit of a broken record after a while, but I think the point is a valid one. 

14 hours ago, Kismit said:

Hypocritical politics. With an absense of evidence in just the first few minutes didn't bode well.

He knows how to make a presentation; you present your ideas first and then back them with the facts, unless you want to bore everyone and put them to sleep right off.

 

I firget if it was this one or the other one, but S.M. also mentioned that this death from above, while terrifying, is far from unusual in the rest of the world. Here, in "the heart of the empire" (that's how he praises it) it is rare, but one must remember that 100,000 bombs were dropped on overseas targets during the Obama years. Not all those bombs fell on Terrorists... 

[Kismit]

7 hours ago, Lilly said:

My daughter is in graduate school (Boston University). She is doing her practicum where she shadows a psychologist at a physical rehabilitation center (mostly traumatic brain injuries). Soon she will begin her dissertation with the goal of becoming a psychologist herself. I'm saying all this because I asked my daughter some questions having to do with this shooting and I want it to be clear that my source has some insight on the subject.

First, it's highly likely that Mr Paddock was a psychopath. Even psychopaths have motives for their actions. Now, their motives may make no sense to rational people but they do have reasons for doing what they do. Sometimes their source of motivation has to do with social/political/religious issues. Sometimes it has to do with internal psychological issues, for example feeling the need to be personally powerful by killing others (Kismit's hypothesis). My daughter thinks it's a bit odd that all of a sudden a 64 year old man suddenly became homicidal (no history of violent actions during his lifetime). She wonders if he could have had a physical illness (like a brain tumor) or if something external and traumatic triggered him to want to kill large numbers of people. Basically, when the media says there was 'no motive' for these murders that's not correct, there was a motive we just don't know what it was.  

It's not really odd for a person to be  normal right up until the day they kill, infact in most cases they are here.

But it's really important that we stop speculation on unsubstantiated theories that could insight extra violence towards others for their religious or political beliefs.

Those theories in particular need to come with evidence and descent sourced material or more innocent people may be hurt. 

As the little link said most men's motive for murder is humiliation. That's a better start than guessing it's politically/religiously motivated. 

[Kismit]

22 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

How shocking.  

 

Statistically speaking.... no. More people are killed with Hammers than with Rifles, for example.

 I would like to see these statistics, what they include and how the comparisons where done, do you have links?

 

The rush to use this crime for pushing a political agenda has been pretty hideous ... or don't you think so?

 Yes I agree, especially if you look at those political agendas like jumping to the conclusion he was radicalized or he was a left wing nut, there is no evidence other than the fact it was a country music concert to support speculation on that, and the guy researched lots of other options before he chose here, so even that speculation is outright wrong.

What part?

 The part where just after he says it's wrong to speculate about white christians and then proceeds to say, let's look at the facts, we know the guy had been recently radicalized....what the.... Umm no we don't, we actually don't. People have speculated, but in that first few minutes, regardless of what a nice guy people think he is he showed an unsubstatiated agenda. Pro white Christian, pushing a terrorist narrative. I realise it's hard for some people to see where this is harmful, but I urge those people to think a little on the subject. 

Molyneux has always been very concerned about the abuse of kids and the destructive effect this has on society as a whole. 

 

Gets to be a bit of a broken record after a while, but I think the point is a valid one. 

He knows how to make a presentation; you present your ideas first and then back them with the facts, unless you want to bore everyone and put them to sleep right off.

 Recently I have been presenting my ideas often

I firget if it was this one or the other one, but S.M. also mentioned that this death from above, while terrifying, is far from unusual in the rest of the world. Here, in "the heart of the empire" (that's how he praises it) it is rare, but one must remember that 100,000 bombs were dropped on overseas targets during the Obama years. Not all those bombs fell on Terrorists... 

 Thanks for not politicising that...../sarcasm

 

[Kismit]

2 hours ago, pallidin said:

Finally Some Info on the Note !

Source: https://www.today.com/video/las-vegas-shooter-s-note-in-hotel-room-is-under-investigation-1064137283972

----------------------

Extracted from an exchange on the Today show:

"...What more do we know about this note?"

"There was a note. You can see it in one of the pictures leaked by someone in the police department"

"...Yeah"

"Both local and federal authorities say this was not a suicide note, and it doesn't say anything obvious. It clearly doesn't say anything about the shooting, as it's apparently a bunch of numbers, and they're trying to figure-out what the significance of that is."

Numbers? Debts? Ammo count? 

I'm not entirely unconvinced there isn't a second person involved. I think though most likely a second girlfriend or mistress. And perhaps she was the mystery woman in the crowed, maybe she saw him bring in his arsenal and left.

The lights in the window? Physics, reflection? What possible reason would there be to not try and catch an acomplice?

 We hear the words, second shooter, and imediatly start thinking conspiracy. It's exactly the same as hearing a noise at night and instantly thinking ghost. No evidence required just a subconcious link to a grassy knoll.

[Kismit]

8 hours ago, lightly said:

THE shooter is dead with conflicting reports of exactly how and when he died. There were two broken windows, several rooms apart, on the 32nd floor shown in early news footage of the exterior of the building.

call me crazy...but I smell a conspiracy.   This event WiIl result in a public ban of machine gun style weapons.

think about it.

And that's a bad thing?

[aztek]

extremely bad, in more ways than 1

[lightly]

4 minutes ago, Kismit said:

And that's a bad thing?

Did I say it's a bad thing?  I ,personally, would like to see a public ban on rapid fire Automatic weapons.

and , just a little wishful thinking here.....at the same time a very very limited amount of them allowed in strictly selected law enforcement hands.

 

[Michelle]

On 10/5/2017 at 11:25 AM, aztek said:

see, media's bomb materials, is fertilizer, and fuel. there is no evidence anywhere he was making bombs,  but having a large house, and a  garden, is legit reason to have fertilizer, and fuel oil for dozens of things, lawn mowers, weed wacker, blowers.......

 

The pictures of his house blows that theory out of the water.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/sunny-neighbourhood-where-las-vegas-shooter-plotted-massacre/news-story/10d8406e12e3353eb24a3b8c79065bf0

 

[aztek]

Just now, lightly said:

I ,personally, would like to see a public ban on rapid fire Automatic weapons.

 

they are banned since 1934. with tiny exception, since 1934 when nfa was enacted exactly 0 crimes commuted using  those guns.

what civilians allowed to have is auto loading guns.

[aztek]

Just now, Michelle said:

The pictures of his house blows that theory out of the water.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/sunny-neighbourhood-where-las-vegas-shooter-plotted-massacre/news-story/10d8406e12e3353eb24a3b8c79065bf0

 

and again they use his father picture,

he had more than 1 property.  as far as this one goes, they have not found any bombs or bomb making materials in that house did they? 

Edited October 6, 2017 by aztek

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, lightly said:

Did I say it's a bad thing?  I ,personally, would like to see a public ban on rapid fire Automatic weapons.

and , just a little wishful thinking here.....at the same time a very very limited amount of them allowed in strictly selected law enforcement hands.

 

The chances are it won't become a discussion within this government, for this shooting. It should, but the banning of bump stocks is the best most people can expect. So  then the idea that a conspiracy exists is a little fruitless, expensive, difficult to execute, and the outcome pathetic for the expenditure.

[lightly]

@ Aztec......Are those rapid fire ?  As in ratatatatatatatat  !  How many rounds per second or minute can those things fire?

let me rephrase my wish....  I would like to see a public ban on all rapid fire weapons.  Any weapon that can fire  more than one round per second.

       A question occurs to me .....someone mentioned that it took  Police? over  an hour to get into the shooter's room?  !

WHY on earth would it take that long?  Muzzle flashes were visible from that location?   I don't get it.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by lightly

[Michelle]

5 minutes ago, aztek said:

he had more than 1 property.  as far as this one goes, they have not found any bombs or bomb making materials in that house did they? 

Which he only went to three or four times a year as reported by the neighbors. It doesn't matter what they found in the house. He had bomb making material with him, in his car, on a gambling vacation.

[Kismit]

On Friday, October 06, 2017 at 4:25 AM, aztek said:

see, media's bomb materials, is fertilizer, and fuel. there is no evidence anywhere he was making bombs,  but having a large house, and a  garden, is legit reason to have fertilizer, and fuel oil for dozens of things, lawn mowers, weed wacker, blowers.......

 

I own several properties, I have a big garden, yes we have small amounts of gardening and maintenance supplies, stored at home. No large quantities in our vehicles. Infact we have never needed to have large quantities in the car.