Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

perhaps he was a music lover ?

In regard gun control: what is the logic in that when the guns he used where illegal under US law ANYWAY ? (well... we don't know that for SURE yet, but it's a good guess.. )

Since logic does dictate that no difference would have been made in most of these shootings since the guns usually were legal and the individual was the problem, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the ultimate end-state that is desired is the removal of all guns.  That isn't happening.  I guess we are headed toward a much more closed, fearful society.  For my part, I refuse to hate those who want to take my liberty out of their own fearfulness and I refuse to stop living my life.  The deaths of those mostly young women and men are a tragedy and it's a tragedy that will probably be repeated in other places, but hate can't win if we don't allow it to.

Will Due is absolutely correct - our civilization is falling apart.  I don't mean that exclusively of America, either.  

[Lilly]

7 minutes ago, and then said:

 

Will Due is absolutely correct - our civilization is falling apart.  I don't mean that exclusively of America, either.  

When you're old enough to personally remember 50 years back this does indeed appear to be the case. There has always been violence and evil, but the hatred and division based on political and religious differences has sky rocketed in recent years.  

[+Liquid Gardens]

I don't think our civilization is falling apart, I think it's more our increased exposure via the internet and mass media to everything that goes wrong in the world has distorted our perception, especially for a lot of people here who remember a time when there was no internet.  Hatred and division based on political differences (and race, and religion, and gender) has been around forever in the US and we are in great shape compared to just the late 60s/early 70s.  Worldwide we're in a rare period with relatively low amounts of warfare; world wars, economic depressions, epidemics, those were a much bigger threat to civilization than our political divisions and random violent acts. 

'Civilization' has persevered through far worse than the 21st Century; I'm as much concerned about 'people freaking out because they think the world is getting worse' becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[docyabut2]

15 hours ago, susieice said:

Just got home from work. I am so sorry Will. Prayers for those people and their families.

Could be a relation ship that many people were killed in London a attack at a musical concert.  Also there was report on the news that this man just turn into being a  Islamic two months ago.

Edited October 3, 2017 by docyabut2

[Likely Guy]

Facebook and Google enabled fake-news links to Las Vegas shooting hoaxes

"Accuracy matters in the moments after a tragedy. Facts can help catch suspects, save lives and prevent panic.

But after the mass shootings in Las Vegas Sunday, the world’s two biggest gateways for information, Google and Facebook, did nothing to quell criticism that they amplify fake news when they steered readers toward hoaxes and misinformation gathering momentum on fringe sites.

Google posted under its “top stories” conspiracy-laden links from 4chan — home to some of the internet’s most ardent trolls. It also promoted a now-deleted story from Gateway Pundit and served videos on YouTube of dubious origin.

The posts all had something in common: They identified the wrong assailant.

Law enforcement officials have named Stephen Paddock as the lone suspect, and so far pinpointed no motive. But the erroneous articles pointed to a different man, labeling him a left-wing, anti-Trump activist."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-las-vegas-shooting-hoaxes-20171002-story.html

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

This thread is not an excuse to start promoting hateful political agendas or to pin blame on one side or another.

This is a discussion about a tragic event in which 59 people lost their lives.

Show some respect for the victims and keep the divisive political drama off the forums.

[Kismit]

There is not always a motive

http://i.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/150-stories-in-150-days/8191122/Gunman-holed-up-in-city-store

One of my friends was the DJ at the radio station across the street and in the line of fire for that one. Spent his shift under the desk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)

And of course maybe he didn't like the day. 

Maybe he was seriously in dept, maybe he was seriously depressed, maybe he just wanted to be noticed.

Most certainly and ABSOLUTELY DEFINETLY we should Not start fueling hate towards ANY sector of society based on speculation.

[XenoFish]

I haven't been follow the thread so what I've wrote can be overlooked. First its a terrible thing so many lost their lives. Second, some times people want destruction for the sake of it. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by XenoFish
Stupid auto correct.

[docyabut2]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

Could be a relation ship that many people were killed in London a attack at a musical concert.  Also there was report on the news that this man just turn into being a  Islamic two months ago.

To add a news on the CNN it was said, his girl friend was a Philippine and worked at the Casino,  is now in Japan. She must know some motive of this killer.  

[Uncle Sam]

1 hour ago, Likely Guy said:

Facebook and Google enabled fake-news links to Las Vegas shooting hoaxes

"Accuracy matters in the moments after a tragedy. Facts can help catch suspects, save lives and prevent panic.

But after the mass shootings in Las Vegas Sunday, the world’s two biggest gateways for information, Google and Facebook, did nothing to quell criticism that they amplify fake news when they steered readers toward hoaxes and misinformation gathering momentum on fringe sites.

Google posted under its “top stories” conspiracy-laden links from 4chan — home to some of the internet’s most ardent trolls. It also promoted a now-deleted story from Gateway Pundit and served videos on YouTube of dubious origin.

The posts all had something in common: They identified the wrong assailant.

Law enforcement officials have named Stephen Paddock as the lone suspect, and so far pinpointed no motive. But the erroneous articles pointed to a different man, labeling him a left-wing, anti-Trump activist."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-las-vegas-shooting-hoaxes-20171002-story.html

They shouldn't have to monitor and control every aspect of person speech on the internet. That leads to authoritarian control over our ability to pass information and talk things out. Free speech isn't clean, it is dirty and messy, sometimes you find people posting false information regarding subjects. To curtail rights of citizens in the event of a emergency is wrong, specially if the rights is such things as ability to speak your mind. God I hate when people push for this things, it is like they are taking advantage of the chaos to make a move on freedoms. This news organization should be ashamed of themselves! As for those identifying the wrong person, they should face punishment for inciting violence towards these people, because this type of action is dangerous. You are free to say what you want, but you will also face the consequences of those actions if they advocate harm towards the person.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Likely Guy]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

They shouldn't have to monitor and control every aspect of person speech on the internet. That leads to authoritarian control over our ability to pass information and talk things out. Free speech isn't clean, it is dirty and messy, sometimes you find people posting false information regarding subjects. To curtail rights of citizens in the event of a emergency is wrong, specially if the rights is such things as ability to speak your mind.

I largely agree with you, but as it states in the article I quoted; "Accuracy matters in the moments after a tragedy. Facts can help catch suspects, save lives and prevent panic."

 

[+OverSword]

2 hours ago, Lilly said:

When you're old enough to personally remember 50 years back this does indeed appear to be the case. There has always been violence and evil, but the hatred and division based on political and religious differences has sky rocketed in recent years.  

Lilly, division and hostility level now is nothing compared to the riots during the Vietnam protests and after Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy got shot.

We forget just how deeply divided we were, how much worse it was then.  And it was much worse

Edited October 3, 2017 by OverSword

[skliss]

Not sure what I said to have a post removed since I thought I was speaking in general terms....

Hope this stays.  I heard a psychologist that was interesting....he said that at the age of 64, Paddock would be unlikely to have acted this way as a need for glorification that you can see from the young. He would have had a certain maturity and would have seen enough of the world to know these types of crimes don't make hero's, rather the person would be reviled. So he discounts that as a theory. 

My friend also said something interesting. One of the reasons it's thought that young, impressionable types see doing something like this as a way to fame or glory is the constant  and intensive attention it gets. They'll be shows entitled "A Portrait of a Killer" or the like.  If, instead of showing this guy's "cool" arsenal of weaponry, they showed footage of say his dirty underwear on the floor or dishes in the sink..take the so called glamour away ...it would be more of a deterent.

Edited October 3, 2017 by skliss
Spelling

[docyabut2]

15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Lilly, division and hostility level now is nothing compared to the riots during the Vietnam protests and after Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy got shot.

We forget just how deeply divided we were, how much worse it was then.  And it was much worse

No this guy was very young and his father was only jailed for robbery.

[Likely Guy]

2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

No this guy was very young and his father was only jailed for robbery.

Who are you talking about?

[aztek]

Just now, skliss said:

Not sure what I said to have a post removed since I thought I was speaking in general terms....

Hope this stays.  I heard a psychologist that was interesting....he said that at the age of 64, Paddock would be unlikely to have acted this way as a need for glorification that you can see from the young. He would have had a certain maturity and would have seen enough of the world to know these types of crimes don't make hero's, rather the person would be reviled. So he discounts that as a theory. 

My friend also said something interesting. One of the reasons it's thought that young, impressionable types see doing something like this as a way to fame or glory is the constant  and intensive attention it gets. They'll be shows entitled "A Portrait of a Killer" or the like.  If, instead of showing this guy's "cool" arsenal of weaponry, they showed footage of say his dirty underwear on the floor or dishes in the sink..take the so called glamour away ...it would be more of a deterent.

i do not buy it either, a multimillionaire, with no criminal or mental issues history, living good life, playing golf., no political or religious affiliations ,.  i do not buy it, possible that someone took over his room, kidnapped him, shot all those people then killed him, and framed him.  that i will believe a lot sooner than a guy like him, bringing 20+ weapons, planing it and pulling it thru, all for what???

one of the weapons had bump fire stock, so it was not legal full auto rife.

Edited October 3, 2017 by aztek

[Dark_Grey]

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

i do not buy it either, a multimillionaire, with no criminal or mental issues history, living good life, playing golf..  i do not buy it, possible that someone took over his room, kidnapped him, shot all those people than killed him, and framed him.  that i will believe a lot sooner than a guy like him, bringing 20+ weapons, planing it and pulling it thru, don't believe it. 

This time next week we will talking about this in a very different thread. Have to wait for the smoke to clear first.

[Uncle Sam]

What is wrong with people? Can't we not do this and actually honor the victims that died in this heinous act of evil?

Democrats Boycott Moment of Silence for Las Vegas Victims

Edited October 3, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[AnchorSteam]

3 hours ago, Lilly said:

When you're old enough to personally remember 50 years back this does indeed appear to be the case. There has always been violence and evil, but the hatred and division based on political and religious differences has sky rocketed in recent years.  

Its like a boiling pot that somebody is trying to hold the lid on without the right gloves...

 

Okay, its time to say it; what WAS this guy's motive?

I don't buy the idea that he just went nuts, he planned this out meticulously, in fact 17 guns shows over-preperation. I don't see how he would have done something like this without leaving a message with somebody. An exit this garish requires a calling card, something, anything.

This is starting to get irritating... are we supposed to start making things up?

[glorybebe]

1 minute ago, Uncle Sam said:

What is wrong with people? Can't we not do this and actually honor the victims that died in this heinous act of evil?

Democrats Boycott Moment of Silence for Las Vegas Victims

 it is so sad that people will put theur own agenda ahead of respect for victims of a crime.  

[Uncle Sam]

5 minutes ago, glorybebe said:

 it is so sad that people will put theur own agenda ahead of respect for victims of a crime.  

I truly sickens me... it has nothing to do with politics or religion, it has everything to do with honoring the victims. I can't believe this guy...

[AnchorSteam]

8 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

What is wrong with people? Can't we not do this and actually honor the victims that died in this heinous act of evil?

Democrats Boycott Moment of Silence for Las Vegas Victims

Harris Faulkner, still such a hottie ...

But yeah, that Dem. wasn't giving an inch, no matter how ridiculous it was to start hunting for donations before the bodies were cold.

How nasty do you have to be to get a job like that, anyway?

[Uncle Sam]

2 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Harris Faulkner, still such a hottie ...

But yeah, that Dem. wasn't giving an inch, no matter how ridiculous it was to start hunting for donations before the bodies were cold.

How nasty do you have to be to get a job like that, anyway?

It's sad really, that this person can't take a moment out of his life to honor the victims before spouting off his political opinions.

[RavenHawk]

58 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Lilly, division and hostility level now is nothing compared to the riots during the Vietnam protests and after Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy got shot.

 

We forget just how deeply divided we were, how much worse it was then.  And it was much worse

In many ways that is correct.  But then as this is a different time, we are seeing something far worse rearing its head up.  Compared to the peak of yesteryear, I sense that we are in the infancy. 

[F3SS]

27 minutes ago, aztek said:

i do not buy it either, a multimillionaire, with no criminal or mental issues history, living good life, playing golf., no political or religious affiliations ,.  i do not buy it, possible that someone took over his room, kidnapped him, shot all those people then killed him, and framed him.  that i will believe a lot sooner than a guy like him, bringing 20+ weapons, planing it and pulling it thru, all for what???

one of the weapons had bump fire stock, so it was not legal full auto rife.

I had a similar thought man. At this point it would make more sense given what we know about this guy so far.