Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[preacherman76]

2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

This is the extreme. There is more than just a gun for defence. Again, this is the extreme. Two points

1) My original question was what recreational activity requires a semi-automatic gun

2.) How much more Police time could be put into crime prevention that is currently being put into gun crimes like mass shootings?

No recreational activity requires it, not that I'm aware of. It is much more fun. Just to add though, the second amendment has nothing to do with recreation. 

As for number two, I really couldn't say if this kind of thing could be prevented. I'm certain open to suggestions. 

[acidhead]

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, acidhead said:

Recreation is recreation.  The facts are even though gun sales have gone up deaths from gun related crimes has been going down.  

And the death toll for mass shootings is...? Watch the videos. Imagine you live in a country where you are legally allowed guns to hunt and defend your home... Now imagine that country only allows the army to hold guns that make the noise that comes out of a semi auto, because being attacked en masse is the only reason to defend yourself en masse  I have no problem at all with people owning guns. I can even see how a crime could be stopped, a life could be saved by a gun carrying civilian. 

But reality is, mass shootings appear to be carried out by semi or fully automatic weopans. Or in this case legally modified weopans. Lifes saved by civilians are not generally by large arms, more likely something easier to conceal.

[Kismit]

7 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Semi -automatic guns? Legally modified guns? As I have stated, I am not against gun ownership.

I am however interested in what need there is for rapid fire weopans?

[bee]

39 minutes ago, acidhead said:

My personal theory based on a couple days of injesting all this is the shooter has had a troubled past beginnning with being the eldest of four in a broken family... dad was a con artist lifer who made an impact on his life.  The shooter never had children.  He looked up to his ďad but never really did. He struggled to find a love of his life because he didnt develop the skills to do so.  He was 64 involved with an asian woman... but his alcoholism wrecked that relationship like many before.  Being she was asian from a spanish colonized country he sympathized with her and the struggles of individuals south of the USA.   He felt spent.  A life chasing his dad's lifestyle... gambling and promiscuity.  ... and it caught up to him... she left him. So he wired her 100 000 k .... set up a final ultimate finale.. The world hates white influential wealthy or generous men. ... they are scum... the worlds problem...  alcohol depression sets in... he plans... calculates his exit and executes.  

 

we will know more (if they tell us) as time goes on - but thanks for your theory -

a functioning psychopath with zero empathy for other people ? - possibly influenced by other current personal and political 'factors' -

decides to find fame in death and his (damaged) ego was soothed by the plans for a long time leading up to the fateful day...?

Those poor people at the concert - it beggars belief what they went through and are still going through - 

 

[Kismit]

56 minutes ago, acidhead said:

My personal theory based on a couple days of injesting all this is the shooter has had a troubled past beginnning with being the eldest of four in a broken family... dad was a con artist lifer who made an impact on his life.  The shooter never had children.  He looked up to his ďad but never really did. He struggled to find a love of his life because he didnt develop the skills to do so.  He was 64 involved with an asian woman... but his alcoholism wrecked that relationship like many before.  Being she was asian from a spanish colonized country he sympathized with her and the struggles of individuals south of the USA.   He felt spent.  A life chasing his dad's lifestyle... gambling and promiscuity.  ... and it caught up to him... she left him. So he wired her 100 000 k .... set up a final ultimate finale.. The world hates white influential wealthy or generous men. ... they are scum... the worlds problem...  alcohol depression sets in... he plans... calculates his exit and executes.  

I have taken some time to speculate as many have. Although none of us will ever really know I base my thoughts on the hide.

The gun man accumulated a mass of guns , (more than he needed, in hindsight), the gunman rented a high quality, expensive appartment, the gunman put up security cameras.

My guess and purely speculation is that this man had delusions of grandeur, he regularly told people about his Wins (not his losses). This indicates a need to be acknowledged as succesful( these  boastings where easy, acceable facts for journalists to get). The cameras where because he thought he could stop security/police before they got him, the amount if guns because he dodn't want to run out (remember he is deluded into thinking he is amazing, and people need to be reminded or shown, he believed he could take them all out)

Basically he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. Why? His life was probably falling apart. He was out of control and was trying to get control back.

[Saru]

A general reminder for this thread:

• 2a. Offensive content: Do not post or link to content that is excessively violent, sexually explicit, depicts images of death, gore, pertains to graphic cases of violent or sexual crimes committed against children or that is of an otherwise offensive nature.

This includes linking to news items containing graphic images.

Thank you.

[Nostrodumbass]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. My sympathy to the innocents and their families.

[Timothy]

2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Technically speaking, you have no idea what you are talking about. 

So what am I missing? 

[aztek]

13 hours ago, grimsituation6 said:

They have video of him bringing in 10 suitcases over a three day period

where, have you seen it? got links?

[RavenHawk]

3 hours ago, Kismit said:

I am however interested in what need there is for rapid fire weopans?

Because you never know what the other guy has.

[Farmer77]

4 hours ago, Kismit said:

I am however interested in what need there is for rapid fire weopans?

Cuz these nutjobs have them 

 

 

[Myles]

6 hours ago, Kismit said:

Are those guns really legal in America?

I live in a hunting communitee, I support our annual muster, I support hunting predatory introduced species, I strongly supported a friend who's 3 year old daughter was photographed cardying out the weiner sized pig she proudly hunted herself with Dad.

I can not fathom a time or a need for this kind of gun.

I bought a couple AR-15's.   Just the .22 version though.   Ammo is cheap and it is still fun to shoot.   Maybe even more importantly is that they will never go down in value.  

Once again the threats of extreme gun control is making gun sales soar.  

I'm not in the market at this time though.  

[Uncle Sam]

6 hours ago, Kismit said:

Are those guns really legal in America?

I live in a hunting communitee, I support our annual muster, I support hunting predatory introduced species, I strongly supported a friend who's 3 year old daughter was photographed cardying out the weiner sized pig she proudly hunted herself with Dad.

I can not fathom a time or a need for this kind of gun.

Those guns are semi-automatic except for a few he had... he used the bump fire stock to accelerate the fire rate. If anything, that part is undermining the machine gun ban because it mimics machine gun fire. I am guessing the ones that are fully automatically were either obtained after long wait or he got them through illegal means.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Lilly]

I'm not against gun ownership, but automatic weapons aren't something anyone besides the military or law enforcement need to own. However, I doubt banning such weapons will completely 'fix' the problem due to illegal gun selling and the number of such guns already in circulation.

[Lilly]

 

All we know for sure right now is that this man chose his target group and it involved complex planning. He had to get the rooms in advance, he had to bring in the guns and cameras, he had to set up everything ahead of time. It does not look like a 'spur of the moment' type of thing.

Here's an interesting analysis: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201209/mass-murderers-some-people-deserve-be-killed

According to psychologists it's highly likely that the killer's victims were chosen for a reason (a crazy reason but a reason no less). Understand what the target group represented to the killer and you are on the way to solving the question of what his motive may have been.

From the article above:

A psychopath is fully in touch with reality and plans murders carefully. These are the people who know exactly what they are doing and want to inflict as much damage as possible. With no remorse, they are free to do as they please. Being the narcissists that they are, mass killers make everything about them. The entire killing is meant to highlight the wrong that has been done to them while at the same time punishing those responsible.

[Sakari]

5 hours ago, Kismit said:

Semi -automatic guns? Legally modified guns? As I have stated, I am not against gun ownership.

I am however interested in what need there is for rapid fire weopans?

I hope enough read this. The "bump fire" mod was used on the gun(s). Let me explain.

A semi-automatic shoots as fast as you can pull the trigger. Releasing and pulling. A bump stock is basically a spring activated stock that push's back with the recoil.Thus making the release and pull much, much faster. (400 to 800 rounds a minute) Technically, by description, the rifle is still a semi-automatic. Because the trigger still must go " back and forth" and not just held down like a machine gun.

This is a loop hole. I am probably one of the biggest gun supporters on UM, but I am not afraid to say the bump stock should be strictly permitted. Meaning, like owning autos (machine guns) strict background checks, and licensing.Will that stop people from getting them? No, many gang members have guns, and autos. It will deter many from getting them, thus less to be stolen and used for crime.

Anyway, wanted to explain how this works, and how it is a legal loop hole to make a semi-automatic shoot just as fast as a automatic.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Sakari

[aztek]

Just now, Lilly said:

I'm not against gun ownership, but automatic weapons aren't something anyone besides the military or law enforcement need to own.

they already are, civilians, with tiny exception only allowed to own self loading guns.

[Uncle Sam]

17 minutes ago, Sakari said:

I hope enough read this. The "bump fire" mod was used on the gun(s). Let me explain.

A semi-automatic shoots as fast as you can pull the trigger. Releasing and pulling. A bump stock is basically a spring activated stock that push's back with the recoil.Thus making the release and pull much, much faster. (400 to 800 rounds a minute) Technically, by description, the rifle is still a semi-automatic. Because the trigger still must go " back and forth" and not just held down like a machine gun.

This is a loop hole. I am probably one of the biggest gun supporters on UM, but I am not afraid to say the bump stock should be strictly permitted. Meaning, like owning autos (machine guns) strict background checks, and licensing.Will that stop people from getting them? No, many gang members have guns, and autos. It will deter many from getting them, thus less to be stolen and used for crime.

Anyway, wanted to explain how this works, and how it is a legal loop hole to make a semi-automatic shoot just as fast as a automatic.

 

 

I think most people on here can testify that I am extremely pro-gun, pro-constitutional, pro-rights, pro-law, pro-logic, and pro-facts. Probably the biggest supporter for people having the right to own guns to defend, feed, and entertain themselves. I am all for either banning or placing the same restrictions on the bump fire stock that bypasses the machine gun law. I didn't know about this system till this mass murder took place, this was the first time I heard about it and my first reaction is why would a company create something that would undermine a law and make gun owners look bad? Always wanted to own a machine gun, but I don't want to own more than one, I just want to own one for entertainment and self-defense from the government if it ever turns against the citizens. I can't say that machine guns are used for hunting without lying. Machine guns would never fit the bill as a hunting rifle, it is a war weapon, used to fight by armies or for entertainment for gun lovers.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Peter B]

16 hours ago, and then said:

This is actually the part of his planning that seemed pointless.  He chose the right place to give him a perfect field of fire.  He waited until the headline act when the most people would be there and he had to have understood that his time would be very limited before his hide would be breached.  Why bring so many extra weapons?  It just seems like an out of place precaution, unless maybe he was expecting some others over for the party?

edit to add:  I just did a little research into "bump-fire"  I recalled reading about it in a work of fiction but never followed up on it because it seemed useless as it was described.  I watched a video and now I believe this guy may well have used such a device instead of actually going through the contortions and expense of buying legal automatic weapons.  I'm amazed that such a device is legal!  My guess is the company that makes it will be out of business as soon as legislation can be passed.  The operating concept is simple enough that many knockoffs could be devised.

What a world.

My guess is that he wanted to keep firing as long as possible without having to stop to reload or worry about the barrel overheating.

Instead, load up each of the weapons with whatever magazine he'd purchased for it (the pictures I've seen show long and fat banana clips, so I'll leave it to experts to say how many bullets they could hold), and line them up by the window. Then simply shoot each weapon until the magazine is empty, chuck that weapon aside and pick up the next one.

Again, I'll leave it to experts to say how long it would take to shoot off these magazines, but I'll assume it's about 20 seconds. Add in a few seconds to switch between weapons, and that means around 7-8 minutes of continuous fire without having to reload once.

Having said that, the pictures also show what appears to be a stack of extra magazines, suggesting he intended to reload and restart shooting if the opportunity arose.

12 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Fox news just stated that the gunman placed camera's up and down the hotel. Sounds like he planned on having a shootout with the police, but since he is dead, he probably couldn't follow through. The only reason I can think of placing cameras before committing a act like this. Maybe I am wrong, just seems a little too planned in my eyes.

Las Vegas shooter installed cameras in and out hotel room ahead of premeditated attack.

Seeing as he took his own life, I assume the purpose of the cameras was to warn him of the approach of the police so he knew when to stop shooting at others and end it all himself.

To that end, is there any sort of timeline published anywhere? Do we know how long he was shooting for, or the time interval between the shooting ending and the police entering his room?

[Likely Guy]

5 minutes ago, Peter B said:

My guess is that he wanted to keep firing as long as possible without having to stop to reload or worry about the barrel overheating.

Instead, load up each of the weapons with whatever magazine he'd purchased for it (the pictures I've seen show long and fat banana clips, so I'll leave it to experts to say how many bullets they could hold), and line them up by the window. Then simply shoot each weapon until the magazine is empty, chuck that weapon aside and pick up the next one.

Again, I'll leave it to experts to say how long it would take to shoot off these magazines, but I'll assume it's about 20 seconds. Add in a few seconds to switch between weapons, and that means around 7-8 minutes of continuous fire without having to reload once.

Having said that, the pictures also show what appears to be a stack of extra magazines, suggesting he intended to reload and restart shooting if the opportunity arose.

Seeing as he took his own life, I assume the purpose of the cameras was to warn him of the approach of the police so he knew when to stop shooting at others and end it all himself.

To that end, is there any sort of timeline published anywhere? Do we know how long he was shooting for, or the time interval between the shooting ending and the police entering his room?

I've read 9 to 11 minutes.

[Dark_Grey]

1 hour ago, Lilly said:

Understand what the target group represented to the killer and you are on the way to solving the question of what his motive may have been.

This. A country/western music festival. What does that mean to the killer? I feel like his girlfriend will provide that missing puzzle piece.

36 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

I think most people on here can testify that I am extremely pro-gun, pro-constitutional, pro-rights, pro-law, pro-logic, and pro-facts. Probably the biggest supporter for people having the right to own guns to defend, feed, and entertain themselves. I am all for either banning or placing the same restrictions on the bump fire stock that bypasses the machine gun law. I didn't know about this system till this mass murder took place, this was the first time I heard about it and my first reaction is why would a company create something that would undermine a law and make gun owners look bad? Always wanted to own a machine gun, but I don't want to own more than one, I just want to own one for entertainment and self-defense from the government if it ever turns against the citizens. I can't say that machine guns are used for hunting without lying. Machine guns would never fit the bill as a hunting rifle, it is a war weapon, used to fight by armies or for entertainment for gun lovers.

So here's the million dollar question: what laws could be changed to prevent this exact scenario from happening again? From my understanding, most, if not all, of what he was doing is already illegal so no law would help there. The background check process works exactly as designed, as this reporter found out, so what else can be done? 

We need to address mental health more than we need to address the guns. Right now in the UK, they are considering regulating the sale of acid due to a drastic increase in acid attacks. Not to mention the heavy discussions around vehicles plowing through crowded markets. My point being that even if we were to remove ALL guns with a magic wand, there are still pressure cooker bombs to worry about. Or rizen gas in the Tokyo subway, or this, or that...

I think that due to lobbyists and complacent politicians, mental health is woefully under-reported and underfunded. A week after each mass shooting, we know the killer's work history, family history, his past relationships...but rarely do we learn anything regarding their mental health beyond "a history of depression" (perhaps due to privacy laws?). So what SSRI blockers was he on? Can we talk about the "disassociative qualities" these types of medications seem to have? For all we know, this a-hole could have spent the last 2 years in a total haze, devoid of any compassion or empathy and that culminated in this tragedy.

Fix mental health and you fix the "gun problem".

[Uncle Sam]

10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

This. A country/western music festival. What does that mean to the killer? I feel like his girlfriend will provide that missing puzzle piece.

So here's the million dollar question: what laws could be changed to prevent this exact scenario from happening again? From my understanding, most, if not all, of what he was doing is already illegal so no law would help there. The background check process works exactly as designed, as this reporter found out, so what else can be done? 

We need to address mental health more than we need to address the guns. Right now in the UK, they are considering regulating the sale of acid due to a drastic increase in acid attacks. Not to mention the heavy discussions around vehicles plowing through crowded markets. My point being that even if we were to remove ALL guns with a magic wand, there are still pressure cooker bombs to worry about. Or rizen gas in the Tokyo subway, or this, or that...

I think that due to lobbyists and complacent politicians, mental health is woefully under-reported and underfunded. A week after each mass shooting, we know the killer's work history, family history, his past relationships...but rarely do we learn anything regarding their mental health beyond "a history of depression" (perhaps due to privacy laws?). So what SSRI blockers was he on? Can we talk about the "disassociative qualities" these types of medications seem to have? For all we know, this a-hole could have spent the last 2 years in a total haze, devoid of any compassion or empathy and that culminated in this tragedy.

Fix mental health and you fix the "gun problem".

Dude... I know this and I preach it a lot. But for one thing though, that bump fire stock is undermining the law at the moment. There shouldn't be items like this that undermines the laws, it makes it look like gun owners are trying to go against the law, in turn would turn people against gun owners.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Farmer77]

9 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

A country/western music festival. What does that mean to the killer?

That is what has me the most nervous about all of this. The culture war here is moving from cold to hot and I am simply praying this turns out to be a dude snapping and doesnt end up providing a platform for retaliation. 

[Michelle]

It has also emerged that Paddock was prescribed an anti-anxiety medication four months before carrying out his shooting atrocity.

Paddock was prescribed fifty 10mg diazepam tablets - also known as Valium - on June 21 by Vegas doctor Steven Winkler, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reports.

Diazepam is a sedative-hypnotic drug that can trigger aggressive behavior in people with underlying behavioral problems, the paper reports. It is not known why Paddock was prescribed the drug, or whether he had any behavioral issues.

Source: Mail Online

Read more: *snip* 
 

I haven't verified this information yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Saru
Link removed due to graphic content