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Las Vegas Strip Shooting


Timothy

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2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

This loophole even if just a perception, benefits the criminals. Shouldn't that be reason enough to support passing the legislation. Surely if the government makes it harder for criminals and the mentally ill to get guns, then the requirement for heavier armements would gradually over time become less?

Paddock was not a criminal or mentally ill before this happened.  The only way to make it harder is to strip law abiding citizens of all protections.

 

Where is the problem with small legislative changes that help get the guns out of the bad guys hands?

You make a small change here and one there, then before you know it, there are so many little changes that there is nothing left to change.  Everyone will be labeled a criminal or mentally ill and won’t be able to defend themselves.

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1 minute ago, and then said:

I can agree with you that the bump fire device should be outlawed since it obviously is designed to evade the rules on fully automatic fire.  For the rest, if you take an honest look at our body politic today, can you understand why gunowners, whether they vote D, R or I, would not trust a government to stop with simple regulations?  If you can't then no further words of mine could ever convince you - and thankfully, I don't have that burden.

Thank you for your minor concession in the discussion I apreciate it.

Solutions need to be found. Changes need to be made.

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1 minute ago, aztek said:

i'm not offering any solutions yet, i want to hear good reason from you why you think my guns need to be restricted.  

You want to argue gun control and you want to work with a system of debate you have already practiced. I don't see the point in that discussion, we both go at it like a couple of revved up Boars and achieve nothing.

Again Im not against gun ownership. I'm for preventing unesicary deaths.

I'm doing what I think is important. Looking for solutions, I'm not going to stubornly dig my heels in for the sake of my ego. Just to prove I'm right, because sometimes I am wrong.

But not this time. Changes need made solutions need to be discussed by both sides. Actual achievable solutions.

You don't have to be anti guns to be pro gun safety.

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This guy was wealthy and intelligent. Is it possible he just literally did it "just cause?" I mean is it possible they may never find a motive because there wasnt one? Its interesting in the sense that he was in the hotel room for 4 days and waited until the last hour of the concert or what not to start shooting.

The plot thickens too because the sisters of the GF say she had no involvement and that she knew nothing of the planning. Of course its the "SISTERS" saying that and not her, but the gf landed this morning and we havent heard anything increminating on her behalf of Paddock. We will see what the FBI can get out of her if there is anything to be had.

And i heard yesterday the house keepers and room service was in and out of that room. If thats the case, that would mean he didnt set up "shop" until that night?

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7 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Then there needs to be changes to free up the system and fix the slap on the wrist.

or we can all just shrug our shoulders and say there is nothing we can do? 

There must be something.

Indeed, there is something that can be done.  Everyone that can be, should be armed.  Not only that, but also be trained in gun safety and proficiency. 

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7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Paddock was not a criminal or mentally ill before this happened.  The only way to make it harder is to strip law abiding citizens of all protections.

 

 

 

 

 

You make a small change here and one there, then before you know it, there are so many little changes that there is nothing left to change.  Everyone will be labeled a criminal or mentally ill and won’t be able to defend themselves.

 

Is there any argument made here that is not the extreme? 

Bring it down a notch.

That's not the way it works. Check out the working models of gun control in nations like Australia and New Zealand.

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Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

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2 hours ago, toast said:

I dont know if it was you saying that weapons are a part of the American culture. Maybe its time to rename it an American fetish that requires some kind of treatment soonest. What exactly has the ownership of a, or more, millitary attack rifle to do with "freedom", I cannot get it. Yeah, 2nd amendment again and again and again, I`m getting tired about.  It has been written >220 years ago but the technology has changed and I dont think that the persons in charge 220 years ago would had written the 2nd amendment in the existing wording in case todays powerfull weapons had been available back in these days. So, the 2nd amendment became a whore over the decades.

Furthermore, your argument, that events like in Las Vegas would still happen also in case such weapons would be forbidden/resticted, isnt an argument at all, its a lousy and poor justification to the benefit of a fetish, simply just that. And, is your assessment about a big part of the US citizens such bad that you think a civil war will be the result of arms limitations?

9

I don't quite understand that bolded but if you meant are a large number of Americans "bad" enough to want to fight to keep their right to bear arms, you're damned right we are.  And the opinion of a European about OUR gun ownership is laughable, at best.  You were born into a culture that used to drag the whole world into a near-existential slaughter on a couple of occasions.  Your opinion means nothing to me or those like me.  

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Just now, Kismit said:

You want to argue gun control and you want to work with a system of debate you have already practiced.

no, i do not, i absolutely reject idea of gun control.

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3 minutes ago, Kismit said:

You want to argue gun control and you want to work with a system of debate you have already practiced. I don't see the point in that discussion, we both go at it like a couple of revved up Boars and achieve nothing.

Again Im not against gun ownership. I'm for preventing unesicary deaths.

I'm doing what I think is important. Looking for solutions, I'm not going to stubornly dig my heels in for the sake of my ego. Just to prove I'm right, because sometimes I am wrong.

But not this time. Changes need made solutions need to be discussed by both sides. Actual achievable solutions.

You don't have to be anti guns to be pro gun safety.

More laws are not a solution. PERIOD!  That’s not being stubborn.  This is just fact.  It is an axiom.  The why has been gone over ad nauseam.

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2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Indeed, there is something that can be done.  Everyone that can be, should be armed.  Not only that, but also be trained in gun safety and proficiency. 

Even the criminally insane. The people on watch lists?

I can agree with the gun safety idea. That's a small consecion fro the anti-gunners. Stricter gun safety procedures when licensing gun owners.

Anything else?

 

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Just now, Kismit said:

Even the criminally insane. The people on watch lists?

 

 

they are banned from owning guns already, as well as any felon, yet it does not stop them from getting guns,. what a coincidence, criminals do not obey laws

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2 minutes ago, aztek said:

no, i do not, i absolutely reject idea of gun control.

Then we agree we don't want to stupidly debate gun control. 

So what practicle solutions are there?

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California has the highest murder rate in the US. They also have the strictest gun laws. As per the link I provided above.

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Just now, Kismit said:

Then we agree we don't want to stupidly debate gun control. 

So what practicle solutions are there?

you want me to list every gun law? we have thousands on books

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Just now, aztek said:

they are banned from owning guns already, as well as any felon, yet it does not stop them from getting guns,. what a coincidence, criminals do not obey laws

Ravenhawk did say everyone should have guns. Im not claiming thats the way the sytem works.

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Just now, Kismit said:

Ravenhawk did say everyone should have guns. Im not claiming thats the way the sytem works.

he has a point, those prbly already own guns illegally, no point outlawing if they do not obey laws

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3 minutes ago, aztek said:

they are banned from owning guns already, as well as any felon, yet it does not stop them from getting guns,. what a coincidence, criminals do not obey laws

In this case those he wasn’t a felon, or proven to be insane. But if there was a national register of fire arm sales, a little flag might have popped up saying “why exactly does this bloke need so many guns?”.

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Just now, aztek said:

you want to to list every gun law? we have thousands on books

The sytem is not working. The current laws are not working.

People are dying unescisarily. There is no doubt, no study needs done to show that the United States certainly has a huge number of gun deaths, and a much higher rate of mass shootings than Australia or England or New Zealand.

So the system isn't fixed.

How do you fix it?

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Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

In this case those he wasn’t a felon, or proven to be insane. But if there was a national register of fire arm sales, a little flag might have popped up saying “why exactly does this bloke need so many guns?”.

not unusual nor illegal to have many guns, he would not ring any bells. 

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1 minute ago, and then said:

I don't quite understand that bolded but if you meant are a large number of Americans "bad" enough to want to fight to keep their right to bear arms, you're damned right we are. 

You got me right.

Quote

And the opinion of a European about OUR gun ownership is laughable, at best.  You were born into a culture that used to drag the whole world into a near-existential slaughter on a couple of occasions.  Your opinion means nothing to me or those like me.  

Of course I was born here and I know the history very well. May this very terrible history is one of the reasons for our high ethical and humanistic standards today. But, do you feel that your country does not have blood on its fingers? Do your remember the 2 aboveground nuke test conducted above 2 civilian cities?

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12 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

Mass shootings in Australia since the government buy back after the Port Arthur 1996 masacre 0.

It is possible. There just needs to be sensible solutions. 

Just digging our heals in and fighting against change is not changing anything.

 

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Just went through the comments, feels like occasional mass shooting is the price you pay to keep your guns and freedom and safety. 

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Just now, aztek said:

not unusual nor illegal to have many guns, he would not ring any bells. 

Maybe it should.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we should ask the same questions of people who have dozens of guns as we’d ask of adults who have doezens of cars, or My Little Pony toys. Maybe, seeing as the conversation will never be “should we have stricter gun control” the conversation should be “should we keep track of who is buying guns”. A non-government group, obviously, but someone who can track the data and highlight any anomalies.

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Just now, Kismit said:

The sytem is not working. The current laws are not working.

People are dying unescisarily. There is no doubt, no study needs done to show that the United States certainly has a huge number of gun deaths, and a much higher rate of mass shootings than Australia or England or New Zealand.

So the system isn't fixed.

How do you fix it?

it works just fine, no system is perfect,  in any system someone\something will fall true cracks. in this case no law would stop it. guy has 0 red flags.  

we have over 40% increase in gun ownership since mid 1990, and around 50% reduction in gun murders. 

we have plenty of things you do not, we have 300mil people, and more active gangs than all of the countries you named combined, do you really compare us to them???? it is like apples and bricks

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  • The title was changed to Las Vegas Strip Shooting

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