Las Vegas Strip Shooting

[RavenHawk]

6 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Is there any argument made here that is not the extreme?

All the points I made.  Unless you consider common sense extreme??

 

Bring it down a notch.

Bring what down?  Now what did I say that you perceive to be offensive?  There is nothing offensive in what I said in 4 sentences.  But please point it out.

 

That's not the way it works. Check out the working models of gun control in nations like Australia and New Zealand.

It would probably be more helpful if you point out precisely what.  Oz and Kiwi are not the US and vice versa.

[Kismit]

5 minutes ago, aztek said:

not unusual nor illegal to have many guns, he would not ring any bells. 

It would be interesting to see the stats on gun ownership.

How many people in the US have collections of 30+ guns?

[F3SS]

11 minutes ago, Kismit said:

You don't have to be anti guns to be pro gun safety.

If we look at things purely based on numbers one could say that every gun incident, murder, shooting, accident or whatever is statistical anomaly no matter how many thousands there are considering that estimates put the number of guns in private hands in this country at a conservative 200 million. So it can be argued that proper gun safety is by and large the norm standing at nearly 100%.

 

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

not unusual nor illegal to have many guns, he would not ring any bells. 

Maybe if he bought 45 guns in one year I could agree with a flag being raised but a few here and there or he’s actually been collecting for a long time then he wouldn’t stand out more than one grain of sand on a beach next to another.

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

it works just fine, no system is perfect,  in any system someone\something will fall true cracks. in this case no law would stop it. guy has 0 red flags.  

we have over 40% increase in gun ownership since mid 1990, and around 50% reduction in gun murders. 

we have plenty of things you do not, we have 300mil people, and more active gangs than all of the countries you named combined, do you really compare us to them???? it is like apples and bricks

I already produced several peer review studies that disprove the murder reduction to ownership discussion. Perhaps if you could link me to a peer reviewed study that proves the murder reduction ownership as correct.

[aztek]

Just now, Kismit said:

Mass shootings in Australia since the government buy back after the Port Arthur 1996 masacre 0.

 

 

yea, you use arson, vehicles and knives now. 

murders did not stop after 1996,  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

 

[F3SS]

4 minutes ago, Kismit said:

It would be interesting to see the stats on gun ownership.

How many people in the US have collections of 30+ guns?

I’d guess at least one million probably more. I’d be surprised if less.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, F3SS said:

If we look at things purely based on numbers one could say that every gun incident, murder, shooting, accident or whatever is statistical anomaly no matter how many thousands there are considering that estimates put the number of guns in private hands in this country at a conservative 200 million. So it can be argued that proper gun safety is by and large the norm standing at nearly 100%.

 

Maybe if he bought 45 guns in one year I could agree with a flag being raised but a few here and there or he’s actually been collecting for a long time then he wouldn’t stand out more than one grain of sand on a beach next to another.

Additionally, I heard a radio host yesterday remind a caller that the same political party that is screaming incessantly about strengthening gun control, a couple of years ago made a decision to completely ignore a chance to control NUCLEAR proliferation by Iran.  The hypocrisy is staggering but the Left don't care about that.  They just want more power...always..more power.  I hate to tell them but they've bumped up against the limit of common sense and any more power, they have to EARN the hard way.

[aztek]

Just now, Kismit said:

I already produced several peer review studies that disprove the murder reduction to ownership discussion. Perhaps if you could link me to a peer reviewed study that proves the murder reduction ownership as correct.

stats show different picture, they were posted in this very thread, i also produced many stats on state of vermont, with least restrictive laws,and lowest crime rate.

[F3SS]

7 minutes ago, Kismit said:

It would be interesting to see the stats on gun ownership.

How many people in the US have collections of 30+ guns?

If you have the time, 20 minutes, you should watch this. You’ll crap at this private collection plus the guy is quite entertaining.

The most armed man in America

http://youtu.be/XkVn1lzcK70

Edited October 4, 2017 by F3SS

[aztek]

Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Maybe it should.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we should ask the same questions of people who have dozens of guns as we’d ask of adults who have doezens of cars, or My Little Pony toys. Maybe, seeing as the conversation will never be “should we have stricter gun control” the conversation should be “should we keep track of who is buying guns”. A non-government group, obviously, but someone who can track the data and highlight any anomalies.

ok he  was a collector, had dozen of guns, what question would you ask him?

 

my friend has about 30 firearms, what question would you ask him?

Edited October 4, 2017 by aztek

[Michelle]

8 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Mass shootings in Australia since the government buy back after the Port Arthur 1996 masacre 0.

It is possible. There just needs to be sensible solutions. 

Just digging our heals in and fighting against change is not changing anything.

 

Lat's make California a test case then. They are considered one of the most progressive governments/states in the US. They keep making the laws more strict every year. Why isn't it working there? Because they have the largest concentrations of gangs in the US. What do we do about the gangs?

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, F3SS said:

If we look at things purely based on numbers one could say that every gun incident, murder, shooting, accident or whatever is statistical anomaly no matter how many thousands there are considering that estimates put the number of guns in private hands in this country at a conservative 200 million. So it can be argued that proper gun safety is by and large the norm standing at nearly 100%.

 

Maybe if he bought 45 guns in one year I could agree with a flag being raised but a few here and there or he’s actually been collecting for a long time then he wouldn’t stand out more than one grain of sand on a beach next to another.

If you state it as a statistical annomally. But if you make comparisons to the gun safety required in Australia, England or New Zealand then the annomalies in the States arn't minor.

Playing with numbers is comparative. It doesn't change what is reffered to as an annomally actually being the death of a human being.

How do we help prevent the loss of innocent human lives?

What can be done?

 

[F3SS]

2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

If you state it as a statistical annomally. But if you make comparisons to the gun safety required in Australia, England or New Zealand then the annomalies in the States arn't minor.

Playing with numbers is comparative. It doesn't change what is reffered to as an annomally actually being the death of a human being.

How do we help prevent the loss of innocent human lives?

What can be done?

 

Isn’t that a question as old as civilization? 

[aztek]

how do you prevent loss of life due to drunk driving? they kill more innocent than guns,

[Kismit]

9 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea, you use arson, vehicles and knives now. 

murders did not stop after 1996,  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

 

Does that happen in America?

Our police deal with so much. Thank God they don't have to deal with mass shootings and gun crime aswell. The resources are already stretched. Imagine how much further they would have to stretch if gun crimes where as high as they are in America.

I wonder what police in America could do if they had more time?

[Odin11]

30 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

If you want to stay alive then you want to assure you have more firepower than the assailant.  The 2nd Amendment is not just about being able to defend yourself and home from an intruder but also from the government.

Good luck using a semi auto or full auto against a tank or a F/A-18 or the MOAB. This delusion that in the 21ist century normal citizens would be able to hold their own against the government and its military, is just that: a delusion. The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when guns could only fire at about 3 rounds per minute (if you were good) and the most advanced technology was rifling. The constitution was never meant to be a static document it was meant to change and evolve with our society.

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, F3SS said:

Isn’t that a question as old as civilization? 

Nope. It's as old as the first gun control debate really. Maybe as old as the first mass shooting.

[aztek]

Just now, Kismit said:

Does that happen in America?

Our police deal with so much. Thank God they don't have to deal with mass shootings and gun crime aswell. The resources are already stretched. Imagine how much further they have stretch if gun crimes where as high as they are in America.

lets not imagine anything, lets go by what is already there. majority of gun crimes committed by street gangs in usa, vast majority, are gangsters killing gangsters. i can live with that,.  you do not have nearly as many gangs as it takes to commit as many crimes,.

[Kismit]

3 minutes ago, aztek said:

how do you prevent loss of life due to drunk driving? they kill more innocent than guns,

Statistics?

[F3SS]

1 minute ago, Odin11 said:

Good luck using a semi auto or full auto against a tank or a F/A-18 or the MOAB. This delusion that in the 21ist century normal citizens would be able to hold their own against the government and its military, is just that: a delusion. The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when guns could only fire at about 3 rounds per minute (if you were good) and the most advanced technology was rifling. The constitution was never meant to be a static document it was meant to change and evolve with our society.

Yet the second part of it hasn’t. Old doesn’t mean outdated. And you bring up the white flag argument. You can’t shoot a tank so just give up and bend over. Ok. Do you really believe that an unknown amount of hundreds of millions of guns throughout this gigantic country isn’t concerning to anyone who’d like to go against them?

[F3SS]

2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Nope. It's as old as the first gun control debate really. Maybe as old as the first mass shooting.

Cmon now. We’ve been smashing each others heads in with rocks since the beginning.

[aztek]

Just now, Kismit said:

Statistics?

what about it?  about 10k dies each year from dui crashes.

 

[RavenHawk]

18 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Even the criminally insane. The people on watch lists?

I said those “that can be”.  I would think that that would exclude the criminally insane and those on watch lists.  Would you agree?

 

I can agree with the gun safety idea. That's a small consecion fro the anti-gunners.

That’s no concession.  The Left do not want concessions, they just want the guns.

 

Stricter gun safety procedures when licensing gun owners.

No.  No licensing of any kind.  Perhaps a certificate of completion of an annual gun safety course which include fire qual on a range.  One doesn’t need to own a gun to take the course (perhaps use class guns which stay in the classroom).  Now, the reason I am against any kind of licensing is that it records (creates a list of) who has what.  One of our greatest protections is preventing the government from culling such a list.  My father-in-law was born in Poland in 1937.  His father was a forest ranger which meant he carried a gun.  When the Soviets moved in in ’39, they went to the constable and took the list that recorded who owned guns.  Then they gathered up all those and their families and sent them to the gulags in Siberia.  And don’t tell me that it couldn’t happen here.  That is exactly what the Obama Administration was trying to set up with little changes here and little changes there.  What the Soviets missed the Nazis shot.  So if you think I am passionate on this subject, perhaps now you understand.

[Kismit]

7 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Cmon now. We’ve been smashing each others heads in with rocks since the beginning.

That would be a conflict over resources. The solutions to that one were, share or define territory. Now I no longer have to fear my nieghbour bashing my head in with a rock because my Summer glut of tomatoes looks delicous.

My question was, what can be done to help prevent innocent gun deaths.

[Kismit]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

what about it?  about 10k dies each year from dui crashes.

 

Aztec you can't just make claims and claim them to be true.

I did a little google search for comparisons of drunk driver deaths to gun deaths in the USA just incase you where right. It turns out motor vehicle deaths are comparitavely similar to gun deaths. That would include speed related, mechanicle failure and driver error deaths in the stats, so depending on the percentage of drink drivers it still means many more innocent people are killed guns than drunk drivers.