Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
Wes4747

Alchemy

72 posts in this topic

Sooooo. I always feel weird posting links, but i found this article intriguing to say the least.

Long short, it speaks of alchemist not only understanding nuclear theory before we dropped the first test bomb, but also of trying to warn top physicist of the day to the dangers we were/are meddling with.

In particular i find the bit about alchemist having a "different way of knowing" to be curious.

I look forward to your thoughts!

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/10/close-encounters-of-the-alchemical-kind/

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that alchemy was something else. Ancient spiritual journey shrouded in Western countries into the chemical garb because of merciful Christians and their holy Inquisition. In the East, it was still a spiritual journey, see Richard Willelm's translantion The secret of the golden flower  and similar texts.

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know how I overlooked this till now, but anyway.

Alchemy from everything I've studied about it so far, had little to do with the literal transmutation of certain chemicals, and everything to do with enhancing one's own spiritual condition. In other words it was a coded physical representation of what should be a description of the transmutation/evolution of the human spirit. Those who obsess over the literal material aspects of alchemy, miss the primary point of it.

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alchemy evolved from a miss, or lack of , understanding about the nature of nature

Before we had an understanding of the actual scientific physical and chemical properties of things like elements,  humans observed them and attributed properties to them.    This ranged from the very earliest beliefs (that all natural things have a living spirit and that the material and spiritual parts are inseparable and what make something the way it is) through to slightly more sophisticated beliefs about sympathetic or antagonistic properties

These beliefs allowed humans to believe that it might be possible to alter or transmute thing,s using not just the material properties of the elements and physical processes,  but by invoking the non material, or magical/spiritual, properties of an  element.

  it is easy to understand why lead was chosen as a material which might be transmuted to gold, because it shared so many of the physical properties of gold.  When the ancient sumerians made a mud brick or a beer, they invoked alchemical processes.  They believed that even a brick or a beer required magic, to be made successfully, and that, without the magic, the product would fail. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Alchemy evolved from a miss, or lack of , understanding about the nature of nature

Before we had an understanding of the actual scientific physical and chemical properties of things like elements,  humans observed them and attributed properties to them.    This ranged from the very earliest beliefs (that all natural things have a living spirit and that the material and spiritual parts are inseparable and what make something the way it is) through to slightly more sophisticated beliefs about sympathetic or antagonistic properties

These beliefs allowed humans to believe that it might be possible to alter or transmute thing,s using not just the material properties of the elements and physical processes,  but by invoking the non material, or magical/spiritual, properties of an  element.

  it is easy to understand why lead was chosen as a material which might be transmuted to gold, because it shared so many of the physical properties of gold.  When the ancient sumerians made a mud brick or a beer, they invoked alchemical processes.  They believed that even a brick or a beer required magic, to be made successfully, and that, without the magic, the product would fail. 

You are making assumptions again about what people thought in the past you have been confronted about thos several times and not once have you given a compelling argument with documentation of support. Will you do so this time?

jmccr8

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you haven't, i highly recommend the article. Gets funky. Will provide for better conversation.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Wes4747 said:

Point taken...

It's my new Walker style of refutation.:rolleyes:

jmccr8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres too much to summarize in this article but i assure its more entertaining than your strippers there.... Well.... I mean.....

Lol anyway, fair enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Wes4747 said:

Theres too much to summarize in this article but i assure its more entertaining than your strippers there.... Well.... I mean.....

Lol anyway, fair enough.

When I googled it there was a bunch of stuff that I didn't see well any of it that I thought was what you meant so pulled a Walker. Do you have a link?:D

jmccr8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

When I googled it there was a bunch of stuff that I didn't see well any of it that I thought was what you meant so pulled a Walker. Do you have a link?:D

jmccr8

Its in the op??

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting fantasy story. I'm dissapointed that it didn't manage to incorporate Atlantis, though ?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Wes4747 said:

Its in the op??

Okay thanks I was snoozing on that one I guess :wacko: sorry.

jmccr8

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Interesting fantasy story. I'm dissapointed that it didn't manage to incorporate Atlantis, though ?

Least ya read it lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2017 at 0:35 PM, Aquila King said:

Don't know how I overlooked this till now, but anyway.

Alchemy from everything I've studied about it so far, had little to do with the literal transmutation of certain chemicals, and everything to do with enhancing one's own spiritual condition. In other words it was a coded physical representation of what should be a description of the transmutation/evolution of the human spirit. Those who obsess over the literal material aspects of alchemy, miss the primary point of it.

I always had thought, (could be wrongly) that Alchemy was the predecessor of the Pharmacist. Well, in a weird spiritualistic traditional way. ;) 

On 10/3/2017 at 1:53 AM, Wes4747 said:

Sooooo. I always feel weird posting links, but i found this article intriguing to say the least.

Long short, it speaks of alchemist not only understanding nuclear theory before we dropped the first test bomb, but also of trying to warn top physicist of the day to the dangers we were/are meddling with.

In particular i find the bit about alchemist having a "different way of knowing" to be curious.

I look forward to your thoughts!

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/10/close-encounters-of-the-alchemical-kind/

This link doesn't work for me, some how. :o 

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh, does seem to be a deadlink... They dont want you to know lol ill re link in a min

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I always had thought, (could be wrongly) that Alchemy was the predecessor of the Pharmacist. Well, in a weird spiritualistic traditional way. ;) 

It was the predecessor of modern chemistry, because it does have a materialistic component to it. Just like most all magic that has rituals that involve different materials and objects of some sort. There's simply a spiritual component to all of the physical aspects of whatever it is you're doing, and those physical aspects are meant merely as 'tools' to help aide and guide the spiritual. In other words, it's the spiritual unseen aspects of magic that are the main focus and driving force behind it, not the rituals and objects themselves. Alchemy is no different. Unfortunately since many alchemic rituals laid some of the ground work for modern chemistry, people often look back on alchemy as some strange physical/materialistic practice, when in reality it's not. No more so at least then any other magic ritual. The main difference being that alchemy focuses on rituals that involve some low level chemistry, that's really it.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Aquila King said:
3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I always had thought, (could be wrongly) that Alchemy was the predecessor of the Pharmacist. Well, in a weird spiritualistic traditional way. ;) 

It was the predecessor of modern chemistry, because it does have a materialistic component to it. Just like most all magic that has rituals that involve different materials and objects of some sort. There's simply a spiritual component to all of the physical aspects of whatever it is you're doing, and those physical aspects are meant merely as 'tools' to help aide and guide the spiritual. In other words, it's the spiritual unseen aspects of magic that are the main focus and driving force behind it, not the rituals and objects themselves. Alchemy is no different. Unfortunately since many alchemic rituals laid some of the ground work for modern chemistry, people often look back on alchemy as some strange physical/materialistic practice, when in reality it's not. No more so at least then any other magic ritual. The main difference being that alchemy focuses on rituals that involve some low level chemistry, that's really it.

Ah yes, that makes sense to me. :yes:  I can see where it ties into that. 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Wes4747 said:

Its in the op??

Oh yeah I read that article when you started the thread, I thought it was an interesting story but to be honest I didn't take it as a very serious piece. When you said talk about an article Gets Funky I thought that was the name of a new article that was open for discussion and googled for an article Gets Funky and we'll you know where I ended up.:whistle:

jmccr8

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/10/2017 at 1:04 PM, jmccr8 said:

You are making assumptions again about what people thought in the past you have been confronted about thos several times and not once have you given a compelling argument with documentation of support. Will you do so this time?

jmccr8

 

No these are not my assumptions.  They are a matter of historical record.   You can read the sumerian clay tablets in which they outline their beliefs and the necessary magical elements to making beer or mud bricks   Or at least you can read the deciphered words   No need for me to find proofs and evidences if oyu want to challenge or discredit me you need to show I am wrong . This is the difference between a person who reads widely and thus  picks up a lot of random  knowledge and a person who does not Don't expect me to do your work for you. Ah heck it only took 10 seconds and i am such a nice guy  Here is one reference. 

http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/the-oldest-beer-recipe-in-history.html  

Beer became so important to ancient Mesopotamian culture that the Sumerians created a goddess of brewing and beer, Ninkasi, and one anonymous poet, smitten with her powers, penned a hymn to her in 1800 B.C.. A daughter of the powerful creator Enki and Ninti, “queen of the sacred lake,” Ninkasi is all the more poignant a deity given the role of women in ancient culture as respected brewers. The “Hymn to Ninkasi,” which you can read below, not only provides insight into the importance of this custom in Sumerian mythology, but it also gives us a recipe for brewing ancient Sumerian beer—the oldest beer recipe we have.

The https://www.ancient.eu/article/223/beer-in-the-ancient-world/

Sumerians had many different words for beer from `sikaru' to `dida' to `ebir' (which meant `beer mug') and regarded the drink as a gift from the gods to promote human happiness and well being. The original brewers were women, the priestesses of Ninkasi, 

The Sumerians used magic to explain everything around them. They believed in many gods who had human-like emotions and who controlled the past and the future. The gods taught the Sumerians skills and knowledge.

http://www.skwirk.com/p-c_s-14_u-472_t-1285_c-4929/the-origins-of-the-society-fact-and-myth/qld/

In sumeria most crafts, from beer making to breadmaking, were done by priests within the temple complexes, because it was believed that only through the intercession of the god's power could these things be successfully  made.

Edited by Mr Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jm

Quote

I thought that was the name of a new article that was open for discussion and googled for an article Gets Funky and we'll you know where I ended up.:whistle::

Kind of like in the good old days, if you Googled "pictures of flowers."

On the topic, Morning of the Magicians is notoriously suspect as a source. It is best viewed as a novel, IMO.

There are many interesting things to discuss about alchemy, even here in the sheltered worksop of S, R & B. Hey, I'm a Carl Jung fan. MoM doesn't cut it, though.

Edited by eight bits
quoting whistle ain't as easy as it looks!
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Jm

Kind of like in the good old days, if you Googled "pictures of flowers."

On the topic, Morning of the Magicians is notoriously suspect as a source. It is best viewed as a novel, IMO.

There are many interesting things to discuss about alchemy, even here in the sheltered worksop of S, R & B. Hey, I'm a Carl Jung fan. MoM doesn't cut it, though.

Of all his works, (Jung) what would you say is the top 3 must reads?

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No these are not my assumptions.  They are a matter of historical record.   You can read the sumerian clay tablets in which they outline their beliefs and the necessary magical elements to making beer or mud bricks   Or at least you can read the deciphered words   No need for me to find proofs and evidences if oyu want to challenge or discredit me you need to show I am wrong . This is the difference between a person who reads widely and thus  picks up a lot of random  knowledge and a person who does not Don't expect me to do your work for you. Ah heck it only took 10 seconds and i am such a nice guy  Here is one reference. 

http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/the-oldest-beer-recipe-in-history.html  

Beer became so important to ancient Mesopotamian culture that the Sumerians created a goddess of brewing and beer, Ninkasi, and one anonymous poet, smitten with her powers, penned a hymn to her in 1800 B.C.. A daughter of the powerful creator Enki and Ninti, “queen of the sacred lake,” Ninkasi is all the more poignant a deity given the role of women in ancient culture as respected brewers. The “Hymn to Ninkasi,” which you can read below, not only provides insight into the importance of this custom in Sumerian mythology, but it also gives us a recipe for brewing ancient Sumerian beer—the oldest beer recipe we have.

The https://www.ancient.eu/article/223/beer-in-the-ancient-world/

Sumerians had many different words for beer from `sikaru' to `dida' to `ebir' (which meant `beer mug') and regarded the drink as a gift from the gods to promote human happiness and well being. The original brewers were women, the priestesses of Ninkasi, 

The Sumerians used magic to explain everything around them. They believed in many gods who had human-like emotions and who controlled the past and the future. The gods taught the Sumerians skills and knowledge.

http://www.skwirk.com/p-c_s-14_u-472_t-1285_c-4929/the-origins-of-the-society-fact-and-myth/qld/

In sumeria most crafts, from beer making to breadmaking, were done by priests within the temple complexes, because it was believed that only through the intercession of the god's power could these things be successfully  made.

Okay I'm not going to challenge you on this but on a personal level, I doubt that everyone believed the same things then in the same way that not everyone believes in the same things now so what was written would not accurately reflect the beliefs of the whole and simply been the classification of a trade system. But that is my opinion and there is no need for you to get defensive and go off on a tangent.

jmccr8

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sheri

Quote

Of all his works, (Jung) what would you say is the top 3 must reads?

I think there's really only one must: his life story coauthored with Aniela Jaffe, Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

link to archive.org stream

(The short link to archive.org's resource page for this book doesn't work right now, but you can download pdf or ebook from the stream.)

I like the anthology of Jung's papers edited by Joseph Campbell (the great mythologist), The Portable Jung. It is an anthology, so you can just sample

https://archive.org/details/ThePortableJung

Something at least to look at (not everyone will want to read it) is the illuminated manuscript, Jung's Red Book a.k.a. Liber Novus (expensive, but easy to sample online, and brick-and-mortar libraries are an option)

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.