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Wes4747

Alchemy

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44 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

So two different aspects of the same energetic force are needed yes

Just curious over here. What would you call that same energetic force?

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1 hour ago, Mr. Argon said:

The whole Manifested Universe is an Illusion - a shadow or mirror of Ultimate Reality. But it happens that at the moment we are chatting a bit about a Nature of this Manifested Universe.

In this Manifested Universe "new " is very much real. so is Identity.

~

4 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Just curious over here. What would you call that same energetic force?

~

What you propose here is either means 'real' is over stretched or 'manifested' is somewhat too far contradictory in regards to the defined 'new' ...

~

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1 minute ago, Mr. Argon said:

Just curious over here. What would you call that same energetic force?

Life and Consciousness. Or God.

The Absolute, THE ALL, Godhead, Source are ultimately the source of all life, energy, consciousness and matter.

Btw, are you Michael Rivero over here? 

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4 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Life and Consciousness. Or God.

The Absolute, THE ALL, Godhead, Source are ultimately the source of all life, energy, consciousness and matter.

Btw, are you Michael Rivero over here? 

Ok. Life, Cosciousness, or God.

Was just curious. Thanks.

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10 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

Btw, are you Michael Rivero over here? 

NO. I am Van Helsing over here.

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15 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

NO. I am Van Helsing over here.

Oh-kaye.

Grabs garlic and crucifix and steps quickly into the sunlight..

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55 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Oh-kaye.

Grabs garlic and crucifix and steps quickly into the sunlight..

Don't forget the Holy Water.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Don't forget the Holy Water.

To be honest, I have no stake in this discussion!

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Don't make me bring out that 800 year old coffin ...

~

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12 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Don't make me bring out that 800 year old coffin ...

~

To be honest, it would still be a lot fresher than some of the jokes around here, not that I have a stake in such things!

 

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9 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

To be honest, it would still be a lot fresher than some of the jokes around here, not that I have a stake in such things!

 

I have a hawthorn's stake. You just keep that crucifix, garlic and (holy water -optional)

Edited by Mr. Argon
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7 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

I have a hawthorn's stake. 

I actually believe you!

Does it have any alchemical properties? (desperately trying to steer the conversation back on topic).

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1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

I actually believe you!

Does it have any alchemical properties? (desperately trying to steer the conversation back on topic).

Alchemical properties are a secret. well guarded.

And now back on the topic. I will make some on topic things later, but right now i will play some video game i like.

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39 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Alchemical properties are a secret. well guarded.

And now back on the topic. I will make some on topic things later, but right now i will play some video game i like.

OK - have fun.

Edited by Crazy Horse
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BASICS OF ALCHEMY

Alchemy was focused on these two objectives:

-The creation of Philosophers Stone

- The so called Transmutation of Metals

So for the start what is a Philosophers Stone and what is meant by “Transmutation of Metals”?

The Philosophers Stone has metaphorical meaning. It is a way to express the state of Illumination. Actually it symbolizes the very core of what alchemy was all about. The transmutation of the most “base” metal into gold. But keep in mind the principle of “As above so below” – this applies not only to physical transmutation but primarily the spiritual one. The transmutation of the Alchemist Himself. The Lead as the most base metal is significant here. But more later.

Just the basics of basics for now.

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A little more about Lead.

Corresponding Planet - Saturn.

It is resistant to Change which makes it Rigid, Static and Heavy.

In Nature, it is interesting - it usually appears where Gold and Silver also appear.

As Element its symbol is Pb from Latin "Plumbum" - which means Liguid Silver.

Lead is a poison to all forms of Life.

Saturn is farthest Planet (Genie) from Sun. - not counting Outer Planets, which are really octaves of inner Planets. Which is an interesting fact since here on Earth it appears naturally close to Gold and Silver - which are the metals of Sun and the Moon - respectively.

Saturn is about obstacles, limitations,contraction, rigidity, control, materialism.

Saturn (Satan) is a Goat - a mountain Goat or a Capricorn. Capricorn is firmly grouded while it ascends to heights of a Mountain.....

 

 

 

Edited by Mr. Argon

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http://www.bahaistudies.net/asma/the_secret_of_the_golden_flower.pdf

A path of Eastern spiritual alchemy.  An analogue of Indian chakra-yoga.
The beginning of the journey is calm down Ajna chajra (heavenly heart in this book) and then years meditations on chakra Anahata (fleshly heart) until is not open. When is relally open so you obtain powers siddhis and can see gods.  This process have to prolong life significantly to make the "alchemist" achieve the goal of his effort in this incarnation.  Meditation on Anahata is possible before you sleep too, speeds up the result.

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On 10/3/2017 at 8:17 PM, Lumpino said:

I would say that alchemy was something else. Ancient spiritual journey shrouded in Western countries into the chemical garb because of merciful Christians and their holy Inquisition. In the East, it was still a spiritual journey, see Richard Willelm's translantion The secret of the golden flower  and similar texts.

i tend to agree with your assessment. i wonder whether alchemy was purposely complicated to hide it from the uninitiated or rather something simple was made complicated by human nature. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

i wonder whether alchemy was purposely complicated to hide it from the uninitiated

Exactly.

Along with the Golden Ratio, Golden Mean and Golden Rule.

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I'll try and have some fun in this.  (Don't take too seriously)

There are times in the past where I have felt like I've come to gain insight into "secret knowledge" or "higher knowledge".  For a very long time it felt like I was struggling with some riddle and in a period of incredible creativity I put together I punch of things about what I knew of reality and was able to "free myself" and "see things as they are".  It seemed so incredibly obvious to me, and was odd to me that I didn't see before.  This "secret knowledge" that's hidden right in front of our faces.

There was a time where I felt like I could see a section of reality from what I guessed was an 8 dimensional perspective.  That there are "paths" one can take through reality that pop up here and there all the time that will lead one to whatever one wants.  In coming to gain total knowledge and dominion over the subjective state it becomes possible to "select for"  whatever knowledge one wishes for the subjective state in such a way that one's subjective state turns into an open probabilistic field where the end state is what one wishes for.

Alchemy existed in a time where there was a great deal of overlap between different subjective states and as a result if two or more people came to believe the same thing it was possible for objective change to occur in such a way as to influence more than one individual.  As the times passed on overlap between these subjective states no longer exist and deciphering and gaining true usefulness out of texts becomes impossible due to no underlying connection existing to the source of the knowledge by way of overlap of subjective states across time.  Since subjective states are unique nowadays secret knowledge and awareness tends to devolve into most simplistic form losing all potential contained with more complicated understandings carried forward by overlapping subjective states.  We gain secret knowledge every time we fall asleep however this knowledge falls through a sift like grains of sands, one only latches onto what one's subjective reality is capable to sustain a whole existence of without support from other sources.

Since my subjective reality wasn't capable of housing an 8 dimensional state in 3 dimensions or maintaining the level of awareness to see things in full light of how they actually are these states just gradually devolve and realign with the objective state everyone else is a part of.  The ability to influence the objective state in such a way to change one's subjective reality as one sees fit is something that can only be appreciated individually.  In the times when alchemy came about it was possible to have pockets of subjective states with multiple individuals traversing reality through them.  This sort of knowledge was hidden from powerful rulers due to their ability of wide spread influence.

Anyway, as far as I've been able to tell there are at least 3 things one must do, in this era, in order to traverse the objective state in such a way as to transform oneself or subjective reality in such a way that won't naturally devolve back into a global objective state.  It's important to understand that one's subjective state naturally aligns to the objective state however the subjective state can contain far more potential and kinetic energy than what is necessary available in the objective state.  It naturally aligns in such a way that objective viewers don't notice anything particularly remarkable while the self is experiencing remarkable things.

To see how such a thing can be consider when one is on the cusp of sleep.  Often times one will begin to think the most outlandish and bizarre things without thinking anything of it while thinking it.  However upon reflection one realises the oddness of one's thoughts.

Anyway, there are at least 3 things I've been able to identify that would seem to be universally true across all subjective states that don't seem to rely on an initial source of knowledge.  My thinking being that it's this initial source and it's echo across subjective states that gave magician's of past the power and influence they speak of down history to us now.  We only have access to those states that align objectively to our subjective state.  "Secret knowledge" or "divine knowing" or "celestial insight" one gains can't be translated between subjective states across the objective state without causing the information to devolve into terms that the lesser subjective state can contain.  That is, if one were to see the "secret knowledge" existing as a 3 dimensional object in one subjective state then communicating this knowledge to another subjective state that is only capable of housing 2 dimensional objects will cause the 3 dimensional object to devolve into a 2 dimensional object.  The initial potential is lost to both sender and receiver.  This is important because it means that whatever path one chooses to walk one walks it alone.  The reason has to do with the nature of knowledge itself and the potential energy available from its acquisition.  The potential of all knowledge nowadays is lost since we've lost the subjective link to its first inception.  Everything we appreciate devolves into subjective terms.

Anyway, the 3 things.

1.  The existence of an objective reality is based off of faith.  What one "thinks" is objective reality is actually subjective reality.  Understanding the faith part involved in "beyond self" and what this means is important.  Everything that one comes to know or believe will always be exactly in terms of self.  If there is no faith in an objective state then one's subjective state will never be able to adjust itself for new forms of information.  Understanding the limits of the subjective state is important to come to know what it means to "have faith".

2.  Know thyself.  It's important to understand that this means produce knowledge by one's own intellectual faculty.  Build upon it, refine it, work on it, but it is arrived at it by thyself.  Don't take my word for the existence of knowledge!  Know it thyself!  Know thyself!  Acquire some new knowledge purely in one's own subjective terms.  Figure out how to do this.  One dreams up all sorts of crazy things all the time.  By knowledge it's meant as something that one can build upon and refine over time.

3.  Believe in God.  This is important because what greatness will one possibly gain from alchemy practice if one believes one is already the greatest thing there is?  Or even worse, an insignificant bag of molecules!  If one could choose what to believe in to open one's mind to new avenues of thought and insight why would one choose anything but the greatest and most powerful imagining there is?  This is to help remove natural limits restricting the mind to certain dead end thought patterns.  I think this belief is a process over time.  The point being that whatever one comes to believe or know one always believes there is "something greater" or "something more"

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Anyway, one thing I find particularly thought provoking is the idea of rituals or certain practices.  I think that changing one's state of mind or emotional state requires a bit of work.  There are certain things we engage in towards an end that isn't necessarily supposed to be emotionally gratifying like doing a particular activity one enjoys.  One does the activity for the sake of the activity itself, not necessarily for the experience of joy.  This sort of thinking got underway when I realised that at no point do we specifically take time out to examine our thoughts and state of minds other than perhaps in the shower or when we're about to fall asleep or on long drives.  We don't actively make time for it.  One of the reasons why the idea of meditation is so attractive to me.

Anyway, often times in order to change our frame of mind or come to think of a particular thing we often have to become engaged with some form of information or physical task.  I don't believe we can just choose to start thinking or being a particular way unless drugs are involved most of the time.

Anyway, often times it requires a certain amount of logical reasoning and emotional leveraging to change one's state of mind from say, being lazy on the couch to performing house chores.  I find the concept of a specific ritual or a specific practice performed towards the end of achieving particular states of thought or emotion very intriguing.  It would almost seem that such practices would be more effective at causing one to acquire new habits or get rid of old habits than the use of other methods.

The ability of coming to learn very particular things can cause absolutely profound changes to one's emotional and mental state.  Take dealing badly with a death in the family for example  Has the potential to completely change one's current trajectory for great periods of time and even indefinitely.

I think this is a strange subject with many nuances.  Assume that watching a scary movie is a ritual.  If one watches this at a particularly sensitive point in one's life then one can be fearful because of it for weeks, even if one knows it isn't real and one doesn't believe in it.  So belief isn't necessarily an important prerequisite to have effect.

Consider listening to music.  There are certain songs one is prone to liking instantly however one could be prone to liking a particular song and won't have an emotional reaction if the conditions one is hearing the song under isn't right.  Also, if one is prone to liking a particular song and one is told that one will like this particular song then simply having this knowledge might cause one to not like the song at all! 

Emotions and states of thought are really really really strange.

Consider that when dealing with metaphysical ideas that the props that seem to be used in rituals aren't necessarily as out of place as they might appear.  The brain needs something to "latch onto".  Become involved in a thing.

I think basic forms of what the magicians meant by rituals or certain practices exist in the form of like a morning ritual or what one's routine looks like or what have you.  I think making a particular task or ritual engaging to a person takes a certain skill.  And there are many things we do that would be particularly strange without context.

Take exercise.  Weight lifting for example.  Imagine what a prehistoric man would think if he saw a bunch of us in the gym lifting weights...  It would seem utterly ridiculous and pointless...

Perhaps once we latch onto a metaphysical appreciation for alchemy and occult type stuff the particular practices and rituals don't necessarily seem so outlandish and ridiculous when compared to the other things we engage in and are used to.  No more ridiculous seeming certainly than observing humanity in say, the 17th century.

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On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:53 AM, Wes4747 said:

Sooooo. I always feel weird posting links, but i found this article intriguing to say the least.

Long short, it speaks of alchemist not only understanding nuclear theory before we dropped the first test bomb, but also of trying to warn top physicist of the day to the dangers we were/are meddling with.

In particular i find the bit about alchemist having a "different way of knowing" to be curious.

I look forward to your thoughts!

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/10/close-encounters-of-the-alchemical-kind/

If you want to know what ancient people believed (or seem to have understood) its best to avoid websites like that. There are many books on Natural Philosophy (ancient science) which are 400-500 years old and are still written in English you can follow. Any older and you will need modern translations otherwise you wont know what they are trying to say.

Prior to Isaac Newton religion and philosophy played a far greater role in trying to figure out how things worked. What they believed was very close to modern Quantum Mechanics (without the atomic theory). It then lost favour due to Newtonian Mechanics before coming back again once scientists had the tools to examine what goes on in the atomic realm. It will sound crazy but their pre-runner to Quantum Mechanics is why they believed that things like witchcraft were real with it being based on non-local forces. In the occult its called things like the Law of Contagion, in modern physics quantum entanglement.

Going all the way back to ancient Greece then people have always had a set of ideas about what makes up matter with atoms being one of them. But its only in recent times we have been able to see them or prove their existence. Only some of their ideas are currently included in modern science despite being logically sound so if you dig around you will find some interesting alternative views as to how things work and why stuff exists. For instance they identified five different types of causality not just the typical cause and effect relationships everyone knows about.

Alchemy wasn't actually about making gold, it was about spiritual development hidden behind metallic and planetary symbolism.

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