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Sir Smoke aLot

Palestinian peace offensive

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Mr.United_Nations

Yep, hearing reports of protests in Palaestine and warnings in Jordan, all the muslim countries are furious.

This is going to backfire on Trump and noones going to help him

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odas
1 hour ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Yep, hearing reports of protests in Palaestine and warnings in Jordan, all the muslim countries are furious.

This is going to backfire on Trump and noones going to help him

I hate to say it but things happen close to the way I said it years ago. Muslim countries in the middle east WILL surrender to Putin. He will take charge in that area. Orange was his setup. How stupid must Trump be not to see that? Why do I even ask?

Congrats mr. Putin to your win. 

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and then
5 hours ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Trump has officially started ww3 

Possibly.  If the only choice is to give the Palestinians everything they want and have the Jews of Israel basically decamp and voluntarily send themselves back into a Diaspora, maybe WWIII is what we deserve for demanding it of them.  The reactions from the EU and the Palestinians prove that they have no intention of ever really compromising.  Since the Israelis are nuclear armed and will never be completely pushed from that land again, maybe it's time for realists to demand some compromise from the Palestinian leadership.  If not, we deserve what happens to us all for being willing to embark on another genocide with eyes wide open.

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Only_
7 hours ago, odas said:

Maybe not ww3 but from this day on every innocent casulty will be on his bloody hands. Coward. Inciting violance but has not seen a second of a war in close distance. It's always the cowards. 

It's obvious Trump and his Saudi friends have cut a deal so that they go along with it. Everyone seems to have something to gain from this move, except those who oppose the U.S-Israel-SA axe of imperialism in the region. The appearance of neutrality is gone, Trump is simply destroying what remains of U.S. credibility in this conflict. They can no longer be seen as the ones who can help negotiate a solution.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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bmk1245
10 hours ago, odas said:

I hate to say it but things happen close to the way I said it years ago. Muslim countries in the middle east WILL surrender to Putin. He will take charge in that area. Orange was his setup. How stupid must Trump be not to see that? Why do I even ask?

Congrats mr. Putin to your win. 

Russia is already in bed with Iran and Syria, as well as with Hamas, Hezbollah... Nothing will change much.

Anyway, US can troll arabs with declaration: "Territories in Jordan should return to rightful owner - Palestine"...

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and then
9 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

They can no longer be seen as the ones who can help negotiate a solution.

How many more years do you suggest we maintain the status quo?  It will soon be 70 years and the Palestinians haven't moved an inch in their position.  Once they see they can no longer hope to get everything they demand, progress might be made.  If not, then let it be decided the way all such conflicts have ever been decided.  That's what's coming anyway.  Why not now?

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RoofGardener
17 hours ago, odas said:

Maybe not ww3 but from this day on every innocent casulty will be on his bloody hands. Coward. Inciting violance but has not seen a second of a war in close distance. It's always the cowards. 

That's a preposterous statement. If there is any blood, it is on the hands of the people being violent, not on President Trump.

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stevewinn

Western leaders have danced around the Israeli / Palestinian issue for far to long all of them frightened or paralysed to act. Trump once again shows leadership rightly or wrongly. opens his mouth and the political left are up in arms, the same political left who believe it is them and only them who have the solutions to the worlds problems, - trouble is their solution has seen us going around in circles, every US President in their tenure has attempted to solve the problem, each walks away claiming a small victory, but the small victory is more about saving face then finding a lasting Peace, Peace they say, the reality is the constant threats Israel deals with on a daily basis from terrorist groups backed by the likes of Iran and Saudi Its anything but Peace, Get the Israeli Capital in Jerusalem for all of Christendom.

 

 

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Farmer77
32 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

but the small victory is more about saving face then finding a lasting Peace

Many would argue that those small victories were more about saving lives than saving face. 

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Many would argue that those small victories were more about saving lives than saving face. 

And did they succeed ? Or where the "peacemakers" just manipulated by the PLO in order to keep the "pot boiling" ? 

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Farmer77
Just now, RoofGardener said:

And did they succeed ? Or where the "peacemakers" just manipulated by the PLO in order to keep the "pot boiling" ? 

Well I would say that a boiling pot is better than a big smoldering (possibly radioactive) hole in the ground.  

I dont think I really care to be honest, I guess I just really don't see where there is a benefit for America in all of this while I do see the potential negatives. 

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RoofGardener
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Well I would say that a boiling pot is better than a big smoldering (possibly radioactive) hole in the ground.  

I dont think I really care to be honest, I guess I just really don't see where there is a benefit for America in all of this while I do see the potential negatives. 

Hmmm..... interesting point. Why IS the USA so keen on the Middle East ? 

20 years ago (and further), it was concern about expanding Soviet influence, and access to oil. In the modern day, however, neither of those are particularly relevant any more. 

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Farmer77
Just now, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm..... interesting point. Why IS the USA so keen on the Middle East ? 

20 years ago (and further), it was concern about expanding Soviet influence, and access to oil. In the modern day, however, neither of those are particularly relevant any more. 

I could be wrong but I think it really comes down to two words : The Bible 

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

I could be wrong but I think it really comes down to two words : The Bible 

Hmmm.... but President Trump isn't particularly religious ? 

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Farmer77
6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm.... but President Trump isn't particularly religious ? 

No but his base sure is as are by necessity many of the senators who must report back to that base.  

If I were in his shoes I would be doing everything I could to shore up my base right now as well as my support in the senate just in case things reach the big I level . I have no doubt this move ensured a couple of republicans in congress wont ever side against the man who has just sided with God's chosen people. 

Edited by Farmer77

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odas
59 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Western leaders have danced around the Israeli / Palestinian issue for far to long all of them frightened or paralysed to act. Trump once again shows leadership rightly or wrongly. opens his mouth and the political left are up in arms, the same political left who believe it is them and only them who have the solutions to the worlds problems, - trouble is their solution has seen us going around in circles, every US President in their tenure has attempted to solve the problem, each walks away claiming a small victory, but the small victory is more about saving face then finding a lasting Peace, Peace they say, the reality is the constant threats Israel deals with on a daily basis from terrorist groups backed by the likes of Iran and Saudi Its anything but Peace, Get the Israeli Capital in Jerusalem for all of Christendom.

 

 

May I remind you while all eyes are on the "violent anti american and anti israel" muslims, palestinian christians are protesting in Bethlehem and burningTrumps pictures. Anyone in your "christian" world think about the true christians in Palestine? 

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and then
2 hours ago, odas said:

May I remind you while all eyes are on the "violent anti american and anti israel" muslims, palestinian christians are protesting in Bethlehem and burningTrumps pictures. Anyone in your "christian" world think about the true christians in Palestine? 

They are so few in number that, unfortunately, they are too easily overlooked.  They know their place and stay below the radar of Hamas or Fatah so that they can survive.  From what I hear, Papa Francis is in a tizzy as well.  A guy named David made Jerusalem the capital of Israel long before ANY other capital that exists on earth today.  Trump recognized that FACT but he also made it clear that he wasn't declaring any kind of borders or lines within the city.  He said that such agreements are for the two parties to make.  He also clearly stated that the U.S. isn't going to be in the business of enforcing a deal on one side over the other.  Somehow, that isn't mentioned by the Palestinian leadership.  They went straight to threats of violence.  IOW, they stayed true to form.  The only individuals that would be so upset over the limited recognition that he gave are those who envision a "peace" that involves no place at all for Israeli Jews in the city of Jerusalem.  Those people can go pound sand.  Trump should expedite the building of the new Embassy but his advisers will probably delay it for years and once he's out of office, the State Dept. will kill the initiative.  We all know where this is headed yet few have the courage to admit it because it might shine a light on the true character of the problem there.  The descendants of Jacob are home again and they will never be uprooted completely again...EVER.  If the Palestinians were willing to accept part of the land, there would be peace.  Since they never will, they eventually will lose even what they currently have.

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odas
36 minutes ago, and then said:

They are so few in number that, unfortunately, they are too easily overlooked.  They know their place and stay below the radar of Hamas or Fatah so that they can survive.  From what I hear, Papa Francis is in a tizzy as well.  A guy named David made Jerusalem the capital of Israel long before ANY other capital that exists on earth today.  Trump recognized that FACT but he also made it clear that he wasn't declaring any kind of borders or lines within the city.  He said that such agreements are for the two parties to make.  He also clearly stated that the U.S. isn't going to be in the business of enforcing a deal on one side over the other.  Somehow, that isn't mentioned by the Palestinian leadership.  They went straight to threats of violence.  IOW, they stayed true to form.  The only individuals that would be so upset over the limited recognition that he gave are those who envision a "peace" that involves no place at all for Israeli Jews in the city of Jerusalem.  Those people can go pound sand.  Trump should expedite the building of the new Embassy but his advisers will probably delay it for years and once he's out of office, the State Dept. will kill the initiative.  We all know where this is headed yet few have the courage to admit it because it might shine a light on the true character of the problem there.  The descendants of Jacob are home again and they will never be uprooted completely again...EVER.  If the Palestinians were willing to accept part of the land, there would be peace.  Since they never will, they eventually will lose even what they currently have.

Yes. Unfortunately few in numbers. That however does not prevent them to be mayors of Ramallah, Bethlehem and few other towns including a governor of Tubas. Palestinian christians were chased out of Israely held areas. They will tell you that they are leaving Palestinian areas out of economic reasons, just like palestinian muslims, and not out of anymosity although it exists mainly because of saudi payed idiots.

Palestinian muslims and christians are one - Palestinians in its predicament, as per Emile Habibi.

Saudis, Israelies and now Trump could not care less about the people in this area. MONEY. That is what is only holy to them. There is no difference between the zionists and wahabbis.

 

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55 minutes ago, odas said:

There is no difference between the zionists and wahabbis.

I realize that you'll demur but the God of the Bible would disagree with you heartily.  If you live long enough you will see Him and I suspect you'll hate Him as well.  The reason I say this is that scripture is clear that he is going to eliminate those who have made it their life's goal to destroy His people.  Those in Gaza and southern Lebanon will be utterly destroyed - EXACTLY what they clearly have been saying they desire for the Jews - ALL Jews, under the handy label of being "Zionists"  Just for the record - a Zionist is a person who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have an unending covenant with the God of Abraham for possession of the land that today is called Palestine.  It encompasses far more than what the Palestinians are laying claim to.  Its borders are from the "river of Egypt" to the river Euphrates and from the middle of Syria to the north to the northernmost part of S.A. in the south.  When Christ returns, the Jews of Israel will indeed possess all that land.  Unfortunately, at that point, there will only be roughly one-third of them left alive.  But of the so-called Palestinians, there will be NONE.  The same for their armed wings that fight under the Aegis of Iran.  Note that Iran (Persia) will not share that fate.  Only those who desire the destruction of Israel and who fight against her.  I don't relate any of that in hatred against Muslims, whether they be Palestinian or no.  I believe the Bible and that's what is predicted to happen.  The next event on the horizon, the one that it would be well for all to recognize when it occurs, is a peace agreement between Israel and "many".  It will be for SEVEN YEARS.  Anyone who's sitting on the fence about their belief in God might want to look more carefully into why they believe as they do because that treaty presages a VERY, VERY horrible time that's coming.

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odas
36 minutes ago, and then said:

I realize that you'll demur but the God of the Bible would disagree with you heartily.  If you live long enough you will see Him and I suspect you'll hate Him as well.  The reason I say this is that scripture is clear that he is going to eliminate those who have made it their life's goal to destroy His people.  Those in Gaza and southern Lebanon will be utterly destroyed - EXACTLY what they clearly have been saying they desire for the Jews - ALL Jews, under the handy label of being "Zionists"  Just for the record - a Zionist is a person who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have an unending covenant with the God of Abraham for possession of the land that today is called Palestine.  It encompasses far more than what the Palestinians are laying claim to.  Its borders are from the "river of Egypt" to the river Euphrates and from the middle of Syria to the north to the northernmost part of S.A. in the south.  When Christ returns, the Jews of Israel will indeed possess all that land.  Unfortunately, at that point, there will only be roughly one-third of them left alive.  But of the so-called Palestinians, there will be NONE.  The same for their armed wings that fight under the Aegis of Iran.  Note that Iran (Persia) will not share that fate.  Only those who desire the destruction of Israel and who fight against her.  I don't relate any of that in hatred against Muslims, whether they be Palestinian or no.  I believe the Bible and that's what is predicted to happen.  The next event on the horizon, the one that it would be well for all to recognize when it occurs, is a peace agreement between Israel and "many".  It will be for SEVEN YEARS.  Anyone who's sitting on the fence about their belief in God might want to look more carefully into why they believe as they do because that treaty presages a VERY, VERY horrible time that's coming.

AT. Please. You are following your Bible. That is your believe. Do not push your beliefs on me. And if you ask a Jew who is closer to their belief 99% will take muslims over christians. But that is not the point.

We are talking here about a group of people that call themself Palestinians regardless of their faith. 

This group of people is been pushed arround by a group of other countries but primarily by a group of zionists which are quoting the bible. Now if they can act according to their belief, kill children, incite wars, justify all this with the bible and you agree with it, then the muslims have also the right to act according to their belief.

Is the earth still flat for you?

AT. I do believe in God. But that is spiritual and it is only my business. But I also believe in science. That is not spiritual. I take it as a fact.

 

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and then
11 minutes ago, odas said:

Do not push your beliefs on me

Unless you equate me stating my beliefs as "pushing" them on you, you have no cause of complaint.  Your take on the conflict is your take and I disagree and find it offensive when you accuse Zionists of "killing children" as though it's done like the Palestinian animals who slaughtered the Fogel children - including an 18-month-old.  Believe as you wish, I'll do the same.  I will also never stop telling the truth to the lies spoken by those who mindlessly hate the Jews.

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odas
23 minutes ago, and then said:

Unless you equate me stating my beliefs as "pushing" them on you, you have no cause of complaint.  Your take on the conflict is your take and I disagree and find it offensive when you accuse Zionists of "killing children" as though it's done like the Palestinian animals who slaughtered the Fogel children - including an 18-month-old.  Believe as you wish, I'll do the same.  I will also never stop telling the truth to the lies spoken by those who mindlessly hate the Jews.

The Palestinian animals who slaughtered the Fogel family got the punishment they deserve. What about the zionist animals who slaughtered hundreds and hundrets of palestinian Fogels?

I do not equate zionists with Jews just like I do not equate serbian chetniks with christians or islamic terrorists with muslims. 

Whenever you do not have a rational explanation you pull the antisemit card. That is old and the more you use it the less significance it has.

AT. The world does not circle arround the jews, christians or muslims. It circles arround the Sun. 

Btw. If you really believe in God, than how small do you think he is? Buddy, we can not even fathom, immagine who or what God is. 

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GlitterRose
9 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

No but his base sure is as are by necessity many of the senators who must report back to that base.  

If I were in his shoes I would be doing everything I could to shore up my base right now as well as my support in the senate just in case things reach the big I level . I have no doubt this move ensured a couple of republicans in congress wont ever side against the man who has just sided with God's chosen people. 

You think those senators are actually religious? Ha!

They wouldn't all be salivating over Ayn Rand quite so much if they really were. 

They cloak themselves in biblical spew to bilk the not-so-bright base, of course. Get them to back people who consider them scum on the bottom of their shoes. 

The all-time low was using the actual Christmas story to excuse pedophilia. How any true Christians are still standing with them after that, is beyond me.

Edited by ChaosRose
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Only_
11 hours ago, stevewinn said:

WTrump once again shows leadership rightly or wrongly. opens his mouth and the political left are up in arms, the same political left who believe it is them and only them who have the solutions to the worlds problems

 

 

Trump isn't showing any leadership if he just stands alone and the rest of the international community doesn't follow him. It's called alienation. In fact, US' influence in these matters seems to be diminishing quite considerably. They might still be the most powerful country in the world, no once can deny that but the guy sitting in Office has become the laughing stock.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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Only_
5 hours ago, and then said:

I realize that you'll demur but the God of the Bible would disagree with you heartily.  If you live long enough you will see Him and I suspect you'll hate Him as well.  The reason I say this is that scripture is clear that he is going to eliminate those who have made it their life's goal to destroy His people.  Those in Gaza and southern Lebanon will be utterly destroyed - EXACTLY what they clearly have been saying they desire for the Jews - ALL Jews, under the handy label of being "Zionists"  Just for the record - a Zionist is a person who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have an unending covenant with the God of Abraham for possession of the land that today is called Palestine.  It encompasses far more than what the Palestinians are laying claim to.  Its borders are from the "river of Egypt" to the river Euphrates and from the middle of Syria to the north to the northernmost part of S.A. in the south.  When Christ returns, the Jews of Israel will indeed possess all that land.  Unfortunately, at that point, there will only be roughly one-third of them left alive.  But of the so-called Palestinians, there will be NONE.  The same for their armed wings that fight under the Aegis of Iran.  Note that Iran (Persia) will not share that fate.  Only those who desire the destruction of Israel and who fight against her.  I don't relate any of that in hatred against Muslims, whether they be Palestinian or no.  I believe the Bible and that's what is predicted to happen.  The next event on the horizon, the one that it would be well for all to recognize when it occurs, is a peace agreement between Israel and "many".  It will be for SEVEN YEARS.  Anyone who's sitting on the fence about their belief in God might want to look more carefully into why they believe as they do because that treaty presages a VERY, VERY horrible time that's coming.

Those who claim divine rights for themselves to physical property on earth are false prophets''

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