7 days jail for mom refusing son's vaccines

[Grandpa Greenman]

They never said what the woman's belief was.  Looks like it was a disagreement between the parents, not her "beliefs."  

[AnchorSteam]

7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We have this conversation with you every single time the topic comes up.

the answer is:

some kids are too young for immunisations and could die from Mumps etc.

some kids have compromised immune systems (ie have cancer or whatever) and therefore could die from mumps etc.

some kids, like me, can’t maintain their immunity even with injections and therefore could die from mumps. 

 

But it of course there is the opposite, the fear of living with Autism. Millions of us do that already. There are theories that if it wasn’t for the people with Autism we’d not have discovered half of what we already know. Also, there’s medication for that too. 

Funny, isn't it ... how the one side always says that Vaccs have nothing to do with the Autism rate being hundreds of times higher now than it was before vaccs became so profitable... but they have never shown what their idea of the real cause actually is.

As always, follow the Money. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

44 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Funny, isn't it ... how the one side always says that Vaccs have nothing to do with the Autism rate being hundreds of times higher now than it was before vaccs became so profitable... but they have never shown what their idea of the real cause actually is.

As always, follow the Money. 

Funny, as the behaviours that we use to clinically diagnose Autism have been with us since the days of Ancient Greece where people like Hero of Alexandria would be diagnosed as Autistic as would any number of other people such as Michaelangelo, Leonardo or Martin Lurther.

[AnchorSteam]

15 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Funny, as the behaviours that we use to clinically diagnose Autism have been with us since the days of Ancient Greece where people like Hero of Alexandria would be diagnosed as Autistic as would any number of other people such as Michaelangelo, Leonardo or Martin Lurther.

Would those diagnosis have been correct? 

Are you saying that 100% of the rise in Autism is all due to faulty diagnosis run amok? How many other diseases are also dealt with using such staggering and system-wide incompetence? 

[Setton]

3 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Funny, isn't it ... how the one side always says that Vaccs have nothing to do with the Autism rate being hundreds of times higher now than it was before vaccs became so profitable... but they have never shown what their idea of the real cause actually is.

As always, follow the Money. 

Or perhaps it's due to us actually developing some understanding of autism... 

No, of course, must be evil science conspiracy. 

[preacherman76]

6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Funny, as the behaviours that we use to clinically diagnose Autism have been with us since the days of Ancient Greece where people like Hero of Alexandria would be diagnosed as Autistic as would any number of other people such as Michaelangelo, Leonardo or Martin Lurther.

Accept the rates, even under new understanding is still climbing at a alarming rate. And is projected to go WAY higher over just the next few years.

[Peter B]

8 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Funny, isn't it ... how the one side always says that Vaccs have nothing to do with the Autism rate being hundreds of times higher now than it was before vaccs became so profitable... but they have never shown what their idea of the real cause actually is.

As always, follow the Money. 

If vaccines cause autism, how is it that unvaccinated children are diagnosed with autism?

From what I read, autism has a complex and not well understood set of causes, both genetic and environmental. So it's wrong to say we have no idea, rather that it's been very hard to work out.

As for vaccines being profitable, may I recommend this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/vaccines-are-profitable-so-what/385214/

One estimate puts the vaccine market now at $24 billion - huge, but a mere 2 to 3 percent of a trillion-dollar worldwide pharmaceutical industry.

In other words, pharmaceutical companies make much more from other pharmaceutical products than they do from vaccines.

[Peter B]

7 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Would those diagnosis have been correct? 

Are you saying that 100% of the rise in Autism is all due to faulty diagnosis run amok? How many other diseases are also dealt with using such staggering and system-wide incompetence? 

Does it need to be said that autism isn't a disease but a neurological condition? So unlike a disease you can't do a blood test for antibodies.

Plus, given the condition exists on a spectrum, it's hard to draw a line and say that people on one side of the line are autistic and people on the other side of the line aren't autistic. There will always be a grey zone where it's going to be hard to say whether someone meets the criteria or not.

[rashore]

On 10/5/2017 at 7:11 AM, Still Waters said:

Rebecca Bredow, of the Detroit area, has has been sentenced to seven days in jail for refusing to bring her child's vaccinations up to date.

Bredow appeared at a hearing on Wednesday morning at the Oakland County Circuit Court where Judge Karen McDonald sentenced her for contempt of court after Bredow refused to comply with court orders for her to allow her son to receive all his missing vaccinations within one week.

The mother of two told the judge that she takes "full responsibility" for her actions and that vaccinations go against her beliefs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/mother-refused-bring-sons-vaccinations-date-sentenced-days/story?id=50276507

Related:

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/michigan-mom-face-jail-time-vaccinating-son/story?id=50169471

Interesting in this case the original judgement went to the fathers rights back in 2016. I'm not surprised she got a week in jail either- she agreed in 2016 to a court order to start getting the child vaccinated, then didn't follow through with the court order. The vaccine argument aside... When you agree to a court order, then don't do what the order says- you tend to be found in contempt of court and that has ramifications. On a regular basis the court system sees divorce and child custody agreements, and sees them get broken, like child support, or visitation, ect. It pretty much never makes the news- this time it did because of the vaccine debate.

And I also find interesting that the mother is standing up for her parental rights, and her right to refuse to have her child vaccinated- but by doing so she is denying the father his parental rights, and his right to have his child vaccinated. She even agreed to uphold the fathers rights in court order last year, but then backed out saying her rights were more valid.

[Myles]

She shouldn't be allowed to put her children and others children in danger.   

[AnchorSteam]

13 hours ago, Myles said:

She shouldn't be allowed to put her children and others children in danger.   

How does an outlier endanger all the kids that are vaccinated? 

 

Never mind, I seem to have stirred up a Hornet's nest here.

Hey, if all of you are willing to assert that vaccinations cause no problems and the skyrocketing rates of autism then its all on you guys. I just think it's startling how a Neurological disorder pops up after an infant has been blasted with half a dozen biological assaults at the same time (that is all a vaccine is, a weaker form of the disease) and everyone jumps straight to Big Pharma's talking points.

Its like a repeat of the GMO "debate".

You guys win, the results are all on your heads now.

[Peter B]

9 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

How does an outlier endanger all the kids that are vaccinated? 

 

Never mind, I seem to have stirred up a Hornet's nest here.

Hey, if all of you are willing to assert that vaccinations cause no problems and the skyrocketing rates of autism then its all on you guys. I just think it's startling how a Neurological disorder pops up after an infant has been blasted with half a dozen biological assaults at the same time (that is all a vaccine is, a weaker form of the disease) and everyone jumps straight to Big Pharma's talking points.

Its like a repeat of the GMO "debate".

You guys win, the results are all on your heads now.

Come on AnchorSteam, you can do better than that. SWOH gave you three reasons in post #25 as to how unvaccinated people are potentially a threat to others: (1) some people are too young to have yet received their vaccinations - they are vulnerable; (2) some people can't be vaccinated for genuine medical reasons - they are vulnerable; and (3) some people don't respond to vaccines - they are vulnerable.

And sure, autism is often detected shortly after children receive a vaccination. But, as I've also pointed out, autism is still found in unvaccinated children.

Plus, you might like to read this article about a scientific study just published: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-10/autism-severe-in-children-of-mothers-with-asthma-and-allergies/9035820

A new study has found children with autism are more likely to have severe social symptoms if their mothers had chronic asthma or allergies while pregnant.

Sure, it's only one study, but it opens up an area for further research.

[Myles]

11 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

How does an outlier endanger all the kids that are vaccinated? 

 

Never mind, I seem to have stirred up a Hornet's nest here.

Hey, if all of you are willing to assert that vaccinations cause no problems and the skyrocketing rates of autism then its all on you guys. I just think it's startling how a Neurological disorder pops up after an infant has been blasted with half a dozen biological assaults at the same time (that is all a vaccine is, a weaker form of the disease) and everyone jumps straight to Big Pharma's talking points.

Its like a repeat of the GMO "debate".

You guys win, the results are all on your heads now.

I haven't been able to find a peer review study that links the 2.

To be honest, the most telling thing for me is that there are very few pediatricians, scientists and others in the medical field who do not have their own children vaccinated.  

[Setton]

3 hours ago, Peter B said:

Come on AnchorSteam, you can do better than that. SWOH gave you three reasons in post #25 as to how unvaccinated people are potentially a threat to others: (1) some people are too young to have yet received their vaccinations - they are vulnerable; (2) some people can't be vaccinated for genuine medical reasons - they are vulnerable; and (3) some people don't respond to vaccines - they are vulnerable.

And sure, autism is often detected shortly after children receive a vaccination. But, as I've also pointed out, autism is still found in unvaccinated children.

Plus, you might like to read this article about a scientific study just published: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-10/autism-severe-in-children-of-mothers-with-asthma-and-allergies/9035820

OMG INHALERS CAUSE AUTISM!!! 

Obviously... 

[+DieChecker]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:54 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Funny, as the behaviours that we use to clinically diagnose Autism have been with us since the days of Ancient Greece where people like Hero of Alexandria would be diagnosed as Autistic as would any number of other people such as Michaelangelo, Leonardo or Martin Lurther.

That's what I try to explain to people. When people say, "Oh yeah... Then what were the autistic diagnosed with back in the day?", I come back with, "Village idiot". 

I went to high school like 30 years ago now, and I do remember that there were about 2 or 3 young people who were "special needs", who would be considered Autistic today. Out of a class of about 500 that is about right even by today's standards.

There is no "Skyrocketing rates" of autism. There is only an increase in diagnosis of autism. 

I believe I read a study done in England where they went and examined everyone in a village of a couple thousand, and the rate of autism was not that varied across all age categories. It simply was that those who were now elderly had never been diagnosed. AND... That leads to the "increasing rates" too, where older people are now being diagnosed with autism and getting treatment.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-real-reasons-autism-rates-are-up-in-the-u-s/

Quote

The prevalence of autism in the United States has risen steadily since researchers first began tracking it in 2000. The rise in the rate has sparked fears of an autism ‘epidemic.’ But experts say the bulk of the increase stems from a growing awareness of autism and changes to the condition’s diagnostic criteria.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

I think if a parent wants to not vaccinate their kids, they should get a government exception. If someone really, really doesn't want their kids to get shots, they should have no issue with spending a day in a government office to get a exception. Then they can flash their paperwork at schools, or whomever they like. And the government then can track who is not immunized and where they reside. This could allow even a single person with an excel spreadsheet to calculate if there are areas that would be a outbreak danger, and then stop issuing exemptions to that area. Then if someone doesn't like their refused exemption, they'd have to move, or appeal to a higher official.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

On 09/10/2017 at 9:15 PM, preacherman76 said:

Accept the rates, even under new understanding is still climbing at a alarming rate. And is projected to go WAY higher over just the next few years.

Accept that I work in an industry that is on the front line of Autism diagnosis, and every year we are being given more and more finely tuned diagnostic tools that identify more and more people with Autism. It’s not the medicine, it’s the practice that is driving the increase. On average, out of a class of 25 kids, 5 will be diagnosed as being in some way on the Spectrum. When I started teaching, that number was 3. I applied the new rubric on an old class.... guess what? Annecdotal comment I know, but with the new rubric, 6 kids in that old class were on the Spectrum.

Furthermore, what we define as Autistic is changing, meaning there are more kids in the “Autistic” basket because we lack a more definite term to describe their “disorder” (for Desperate want of a better word). It’d be like if we lumped all types of broken leg together with broken arms, the number of “broken limbs” would shoot through the roof.

 

“Autism” is a catch all term for people who evidence non-neurotypical behaviour in ways that impact upon their social and/or emotional and/or intellectual development. There is no one checklist of things that say “Autistic”, and we’re adding to the things that we look for as signposts of “Autism” every year. 

[Kismit]

I'm not joking when I say I have wondered if I was on the autistic spectrum. It is a very wide spectrum these days.

[glorybebe]

22 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I'm not joking when I say I have wondered if I was on the autistic spectrum. It is a very wide spectrum these days.

I have been doing a lot of reading about diets and resulting health issues.  I am gluten intolerant which correlates to my Graves disease.  What I have read is that growers no longer rotate crops, they do not replenish the Earth to ensure proper minerals are absorbed by the plants and that we have so many veggies and fruits picked before they ripen to ensure full health benefits.  Basically, we are not nourishing our brains and this is resulting in not only children beibg diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and Autism.  To me this makes so much sense when looking in peoples carts in the grocery stores and seeing crap that I would never even think about feeding my child.  

[Kismit]

Just now, glorybebe said:

I have been doing a lot of reading about diets and resulting health issues.  I am gluten intolerant which correlates to my Graves disease.  What I have read is that growers no longer rotate crops, they do not replenish the Earth to ensure proper minerals are absorbed by the plants and that we have so many veggies and fruits picked before they ripen to ensure full health benefits.  Basically, we are not nourishing our brains and this is resulting in not only children beibg diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and Autism.  To me this makes so much sense when looking in peoples carts in the grocery stores and seeing crap that I would never even think about feeding my child.  

I do belive a much greater part of wellness is excersise and nutrition, but I am mildly shocked to hear that the research you read sugests farmers arn't rotating . It's pretty rural round these parts and the vegie growees would do too much damage to the soil if the produce wasn't rotated. 

But then again quite a large portion of vegetable production around here is organic.

 

[glorybebe]

4 hours ago, Kismit said:

I do belive a much greater part of wellness is excersise and nutrition, but I am mildly shocked to hear that the research you read sugests farmers arn't rotating . It's pretty rural round these parts and the vegie growees would do too much damage to the soil if the produce wasn't rotated. 

But then again quite a large portion of vegetable production around here is organic.

 

You are in a totally different part of the world.  North America is quite commercialized when it comes to farming.  And organic is just a symbol to charge more.  

[Timothy]

4 hours ago, Kismit said:

I'm not joking when I say I have wondered if I was on the autistic spectrum. It is a very wide spectrum these days.

I’ve wondered this too (about me, not you). I’m sure there’s one of those super accurate online quiz’s we can do in a couple of minutes to find out? *heads for Google*

Edit: Ooh, the Autism-spectrum quotient: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism-spectrum_quotient 

Maybe we should make a thread and everyone can post their results. It might explain a lot... 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Timonthy
Edit.

[Kismit]

1 hour ago, Timonthy said:

I’ve wondered this too (about me, not you). I’m sure there’s one of those super accurate online quiz’s we can do in a couple of minutes to find out? *heads for Google*

Edit: Ooh, the Autism-spectrum quotient: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism-spectrum_quotient 

Maybe we should make a thread and everyone can post their results. It might explain a lot... 

Lol. This post made me laugh.

*heads of to find her place on the spectrum.

[Kismit]

1 hour ago, glorybebe said:

You are in a totally different part of the world.  North America is quite commercialized when it comes to farming.  And organic is just a symbol to charge more.  

In order for a farm to sell it's products as organic, the land, the seeds, and the farming techniques need to be certified organic. That increases the costs. One of the larger farms in our area is owned and run by one of my youngest son's best friends. They are very good people, with very strong views on healthy eating. The first time their child ate kfc he was 14 and out with us.

[Paulywally]

Anyone still believing that vaccines cause Autism should be directed to the studies dealing with identical twins, that are both effected with autism. 90% of the genetic material is inherited by both of the twins, and in almost every case, both identical twins are affected by the disorder. These studies basically prove/show that at least part of autism is definitely caused by genetic material passed on by the parents. I always associate people who believe vaccines cause autism or harm to children are basically in the same boat as the "flat earth theorists." The just believe whatever they want to believe, and ignore the science.