Still Waters Posted October 12, 2017 #1 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Oxford is surging ahead of London in the race to become emissions-free after outlining plans to ban all non-electric vehicles in parts of the city by 2020. The city is set become the first place in the UK to ban all polluting vehicles from some areas within just three years. The proposals would initially prohibit all petrol and diesel vehicles from the city centre's streets, including cars, taxis and buses. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/oxford-to-become-the-first-uk-city-to-ban-all-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-by-2020-a3656606.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGorilla Posted October 12, 2017 #2 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Forgive me if some of this has already been covered by the article, that site keeps causing my browser to crash. Anyway, what happens to people who can't afford to upgrade? Not everyone can buy a brand new electric car. Will they be forced to use other transportation? What's going to happen to all of the old cars? How about people whose livelihoods revolve around the industry? Gas station workers, owners. Will they just have to find new jobs or just be forced to go on the dole? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Monk Posted October 12, 2017 #3 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) It wasn't that long ago that the enviroMentalists were telling us all to start driving diesel vehicles because they are good for the environment - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972068/Quentin-Letts-takes-aim-liberal-elite.html - and now they are telling us that diesel vehicles are bad for the polar bears and have got cities like Oxford reverting back to the Middle Ages by making horse and cart the only permitted forms of transport. So the only people to blame for the plethora of diesel vehicles (which I have no problem with) are the environMentalists themselves. It makes you wonder what else the polar bear-huggers have got spectacularly wrong. Edited October 12, 2017 by Black Monk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 12, 2017 #4 Share Posted October 12, 2017 An interesting experiment. I wish there had been more science in the article and less political correct BS. I look forward to seeing if the expenses, and lost business, is worth the cleaner air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Monk Posted October 12, 2017 #5 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DieChecker said: An interesting experiment. I wish there had been more science in the article and less political correct BS. I look forward to seeing if the expenses, and lost business, is worth the cleaner air. Oxford consists of just 152,000 people - mainly hippies. Imagine if the Swampies get their way and banned motor vehicles from London, a city of 9 million. The consequences don't bear thinking about. Edited October 12, 2017 by Black Monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 12, 2017 #6 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Black Monk said: Imagine if the Swampies get their way and banned motor vehicles from London, a city of 9 million. The consequences don't bear thinking about. I suppose they'd need caravans of camels to distribute food to all the markets?? Do they make electric cars in a size that can deliver food for 9 million people daily? I'll check... EDIT: I guess they do... https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/09/13/tesla-to-show-electric-semi-truck-that-elon-musk-calls-a-beast/#518fd01838d1 Edited October 12, 2017 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted October 12, 2017 #7 Share Posted October 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Black Monk said: It wasn't that long ago that the enviroMentalists were telling us all to start driving diesel vehicles because they are good for the environment - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972068/Quentin-Letts-takes-aim-liberal-elite.html - and now they are telling us that diesel vehicles are bad for the polar bears To be fair, if it were the polar bears being affected, they would be totally extinct by now https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/european-commission-issues-final-warning-to-uk-over-air-pollution-breaches Of course, we do have to also take into account the problem that if most people are forced to walk more than 100ft from their cars, they will die of heart failure as their bodies are incapable are such extreme, strenuous exercise For the record, I regularly visit Oxford for meetings held at Brooke's University. Which is just a short 3 mile walk uphill from the railway station. So never needed a car there. Be nice if they banned bicycles though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 12, 2017 #8 Share Posted October 12, 2017 This doesn't seem such an outlandish idea. In Nottingham, certain area's are "bus/taxi" only, and an increasing proportion of our buses are electric. The proposal doesn't say that ALL of Oxford will become petrol/diesel free. Just 'parts' of the City. In addition, the 'ban' will only relate to private vehicles (including taxi's) and buses. Delivery vehicles will be OK until 2035. Seems reasonable to me ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Monk Posted October 12, 2017 #9 Share Posted October 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I suppose they'd need caravans of camels to distribute food to all the markets?? Do they make electric cars in a size that can deliver food for 9 million people daily? I'll check... EDIT: I guess they do... https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/09/13/tesla-to-show-electric-semi-truck-that-elon-musk-calls-a-beast/#518fd01838d1 Have they got enough places where they can plug in all those slow electric cars to charge them up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted October 12, 2017 #10 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Black Monk said: Have they got enough places where they can plug in all those slow electric cars to charge them up? We have to build the power stations to generate the electricity to supply to the chargers first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Monk Posted October 12, 2017 #11 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Essan said: We have to build the power stations to generate the electricity to supply to the chargers first And therein lies the wackiness of the greenies. Let's just all get back to driving motor vehicles, everything will be fine and back to normal, and we can forget all about it. If the greenies want to travel around on horse and cart and live by candlelight then that's fine. They shouldn't be enforcing their eccentric behaviour onto us and the planet because of non-existent global warming. Edited October 12, 2017 by Black Monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 12, 2017 #12 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Essan said: We have to build the power stations to generate the electricity to supply to the chargers first Like with leftist economics... If you destroy the power stations (corporations) and increase the dependence on electricity (increase taxes), the electricity (money) will magically come from somewhere.... They don't ever know where, but they know it will not stop coming, and if it does, then it certainly wouldn't be their fault. Edited October 12, 2017 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted October 12, 2017 #13 Share Posted October 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Black Monk said: And therein lies the wackiness of the greenies. Let's just all get back to driving motor vehicles, everything will be fine and back to normal, and we can forget all about it. Actually, I would rather people learned how to walk again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 12, 2017 #14 Share Posted October 12, 2017 30 minutes ago, Black Monk said: And therein lies the wackiness of the greenies. Let's just all get back to driving motor vehicles, everything will be fine and back to normal, and we can forget all about it. If the greenies want to travel around on horse and cart and live by candlelight then that's fine. They shouldn't be enforcing their eccentric behaviour onto us and the planet because of non-existent global warming. Indeed ! Alternatively, we could actually READ the OP Article ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Willis Posted October 12, 2017 #15 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It's a bit ironic considering how many petrol and diesel vehicles have been made in Oxford during the last century. On a related subject. In the UK about 67% of the cost of a liter of petrol/diesel is tax (fuel duty plus VAT). Does anyone know how much tax is paid on the electricity used in electric vehicles? I would imagine it is currently very low, which makes running electric vehicles economic compared to petrol/diesel. However, the government is going to have to raise its taxes from somewhere, so as and when electric vehicles become dominant, people will be in for a shock. I also assume electric vehicles will only be rechargeable at regulated charging points in order that the tax can be collected. I would imagine there are already plans whereby a GPS will record where a vehicle was recharged, and if this was not at an official charging point, the tax police will swoop. This reminds me of Michael Faraday's reply when asked to what purpose will electricity be put? He answered, "I don't yet know, but whatever it is the government will tax it". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kartikg Posted October 12, 2017 #16 Share Posted October 12, 2017 the government has time till 2020 to build an excellent public transport infrastructure so those who cannot afford buying new cars can commute without any worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 12, 2017 #17 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I suppose this is the latest brilliant stunt to come from the brain of an Elected Mayor is it. Typical as usual that politicians and similar intelligence-challenged species never stop to think whether any of their brilliant ideas are at all practical or feasible before launching them on an astonished world. How do these idiots propose that things will be delivered? Not just locally but on the motorway, from container ports and so on? They think that electric trucks capable of long haul motorway journeys will be realistic even by 2035? They've got a hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 12, 2017 #18 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Its well known that pollution is static, so while one road has no diesel cars the next road over does and so the pollution refuses to disperse over the councils selected routes. https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/forecasting/ https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/forecasting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted October 12, 2017 #19 Share Posted October 12, 2017 34 minutes ago, stevewinn said: Its well known that pollution is static, so while one road has no diesel cars the next road over does and so the pollution refuses to disperse over the councils selected routes. https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/forecasting/ https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/forecasting/ Well to an extent it is. In Evesham we have one road that has very bad air pollution - it is narrow with high buildings either side and traffic tends to build up on it. But the rest of the town is fine .....http://www.worcsregservices.gov.uk/media/486900/Section-37-Port-Street-v22.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Monk Posted October 13, 2017 #20 Share Posted October 13, 2017 London, 2027: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 13, 2017 #21 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Mr Khan doesn't own interest in a horse and buggy company does he?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 13, 2017 #22 Share Posted October 13, 2017 17 hours ago, Essan said: Well to an extent it is. In Evesham we have one road that has very bad air pollution - it is narrow with high buildings either side and traffic tends to build up on it. But the rest of the town is fine .....http://www.worcsregservices.gov.uk/media/486900/Section-37-Port-Street-v22.pdf Evesham ? I did my training there. And the traffic over the river bridge was horrendous ! "Evesham, Evesham, where the river bends. It's where my Journey started, and its where my journey ends" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted October 13, 2017 #23 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 11:54 AM, Black Monk said: It wasn't that long ago that the enviroMentalists were telling us all to start driving diesel vehicles ... Who do you mean by 'enviroMentalists'? They were not scientists. The burning of hydrocarbon fuels produces harmful compounds like NOx gases, carbon monoxide, particulates and various species of volatile organic compounds. Engints and scientists know this and such knowledge is not secret however certain vested interests might like to spin it. Burning these fuels is bad for everyone and for the environment. Some might say that the 3-way catalytic converter solved the problem. It didn't. It may have reduced harmful emissions but it maximised and accelerated the production of carbon dioxide, a major contributor to global warming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 13, 2017 #24 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 11:54 AM, Black Monk said: It wasn't that long ago that the enviroMentalists were telling us all to start driving diesel vehicles because they are good for the environment - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972068/Quentin-Letts-takes-aim-liberal-elite.html - and now they are telling us that diesel vehicles are bad for the polar bears and have got cities like Oxford reverting back to the Middle Ages by making horse and cart the only permitted forms of transport. If only these scientists (presumably who you mean by environMentalists) could devise some kind of transport that's like a car but doesn't run on oil. And electric car even! No, such things are surely sci-fi. It must be either diesel or horses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted October 13, 2017 #25 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 hours ago, DieChecker said: Mr Khan doesn't own interest in a horse and buggy company does he?? Don't think so, but the horses formed a union back in the early 1900's and it seems like they're excited to take their market back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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