Are angels of the bible aliens?

[papageorge1]

22 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

Why else would you believe in it? There is no evidence for it, yet you do. It seems that you perceive that there must be more out there, that it is "more than happenstance". A God-of-the-gaps argument in essence.

It is not sinking in with you that I consider information from sources and wisdom traditions beyond physical science's current reach in forming my universe-view. I am not a follower of scientism.

Edited October 17, 2017 by papageorge1

[Carnoferox]

42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

It is not sinking in with you that I consider information from sources and wisdom traditions beyond physical science's current reach in forming my universe-view. I am not a follower of scientism.

Oh no I'm well aware of that. I just fail to understand your reasoning for doing so.

[Truthseeker007]

2 hours ago, Timonthy said:

Yes it covers ideas, but has no solid basis in reality. If there were ancient aliens, they’ve covered their tracks well and we’ve not yet been able to identify any evidence of their existence. The ‘evidence’ presented on that show is pure BS.

But yes, I am open to the possibility, but I think it’s very unlikely. And again, in all of human history we’ve been unable to identify any evidence of ancient aliens or ET life on earth or beyond, let alone planet seeding. 

I do think there is most definitely life out there somewhere, just to clarify. 

 

And what really is reality? There has been much evidence of their existence when you do the research. Surly all the alien abductions that are reported are not made up just as one example. It seems a lot of human history has been covered up and or changed to a different version then what really happened in the past.

[Timothy]

8 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

And what really is reality? There has been much evidence of their existence when you do the research. Surly all the alien abductions that are reported are not made up just as one example. It seems a lot of human history has been covered up and or changed to a different version then what really happened in the past.

My reality is everything I experience and comprehend. Whether it’s a simulation or something else, who knows, but it seems unlikely.

I actually used to believe in an ET presence on earth, it has been the research and the believers arguments which killed it for me. Now I hold a very small possibility of that being the case. 

Echoing previous discussions, if there were such widespread real abductions happening, there would be real and tangible evidence, but there is not. Maybe not made up so much as psychological issues manifesting in that way to convince someone that they have been abducted. 

[Rlyeh]

10 hours ago, sees said:

I know the programme Ancient Aliens generally gets a bad rap/appraisal here (e.g. by those who favour the reductive/materialistic dogma of old science) but it covers so much ground, so many ideas.  All I'm saying is that rather than be a kneejerker debunker, maybe don't throw the baby out with the bath water.  It pays to have an open mind rather than be myopic and outright dismissive imo.

As we see again your "open mind" fails to understand why the scientific method exists.

[I'mConvinced]

17 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Yeah, been bored last few days without that crabby Fish guy to insult me.

But yes, my positions are seriously held.

I'm not sure I ever spent much time insulting you but if you're feeling bored we could always spark up a heated discussion.  I give the chance of this discussion bringing any meaningful change to either viewpoint a 95% chance of failing vs a 5% chance of you changing your mind ;-).

 

[Essan]

Why would God need aliens to pass His messages on to his chosen people on Earth?    

I think Mr Ockham's shaving device applies here?   We're trying to replace one unknown with more, convoluted, unknowns.


(Of course, IMO, angels were just plot devices - as real as Harry Potter's cloak of invisibility)

[papageorge1]

3 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

 I give the chance of this discussion bringing any meaningful change to either viewpoint a 95% chance of failing vs a 5% chance of you changing your mind ;-).

 

And the chance of you changing your mind? Apparently that leaves zero percent.

[papageorge1]

3 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

 if you're feeling bored we could always spark up a heated discussion.  

Yeah, a little bored. Point out something I have said in this thread that you wish to challenge.

[I'mConvinced]

59 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

And the chance of you changing your mind? Apparently that leaves zero percent.

Essentially, yes. Of course if some new evidence came to light I'd be willing to change my mind. However, debate on the subject of the paranormal won't change my view that the evidence so far is lacking in credibility.

Equally I know that your belief can't be shaken because it is based on untestable theory. 

21 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

It is not sinking in with you that I consider information from sources and wisdom traditions beyond physical science's current reach in forming my universe-view. I am not a follower of scientism.

Can you put a moniker on what you do believe in? Or do you cherry pick from various religions? 

[Essan]

Was Gandalf an alien?    Same thing    IMO.

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

Can you put a moniker on what you do believe in? Or do you cherry pick from various religions? 

About the best religious moniker for me would be non-dual (God/Brahman and creation are not-two) Hinduism (called 'Advaita').

Also my best understanding of the super-physical universe comes from Theosophical  and Eastern (Indian) based esoteric traditions. These are based on the Vedic (Hindu) wisdom tradition that discusses the subtle planes of nature not directly detectable by the gross physical plane. These super-physical planes are experienced and described through the psychic senses of the adepts. I have found these traditions to be far in advance of both western religious and scientific traditions.

The traditions I learn from show how paranormal phenomena is really normal phenomena in an expanded understanding of the universe. Western science tries to deny or explain these repeatedly reported phenomena away.

However, since your question does not relate to angels of the bible and aliens we should probably create a new thread if we want to discuss this further.

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by papageorge1

[Podo]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:22 AM, trevorhbj said:

Being that the periodic table is the same through out the universe and that all stars are made of the same substances, can't we assume that evolution also occurs the same way in all planetary systems and that an evolved species would probably closely resemble us? and that perhaps from some sort of evolved death state the angels of the bible are able to travel here from distant places and communicate with humans in different ways for example revelations to john of patamos?

No, not at all. We have every reason to believe the opposite, that evolved life would be entirely unlike us at all. The chances of finding a civilisation of bipedal mammalian chordates is not a fair assumption, at all.

[fabsx]

Isn't anything that doesn't reside on the planet earth considered alien species? So yes? Depends on which perspective you take it from.

[Mr Guitar]

Due to the fact that angels are biblical beings, I consider them totally fictitious and a pure fabrication much as the gods of Egyptian, Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology were invented to explain natural phenomena that the ignorant did not understand. They (and all religions for that matter) were fabricated by those in power to control the population and keep them subjugated. Trying to equate these figments of someone's imagination to the possibility of alien life is, to me, like trying to compare apples and oranges. Based on scientific study and mathematical probability, there is a very good chance that there is life elsewhere in the universe - intelligent or otherwise is still to be determined. Further, based on scientific study, I don't think that there's a snowball's chance in the proverbial hot place that there is any great creator out there calling the shots. I only believe what I can detect with my senses.....everything else is supposition and wishfull thinking. Yes, I would personally like to see evidence of intelligent life out there (walking , talking only, please - no microscopic amoebas or fossilzed plants) in my lifetime (which is growing shorter by the year) but I don't expect too much to happen in that regard. You can hope all you want but all the hoping in the world won't make it true.