Right to an education without indoctrination.

[lost_shaman]

Should our Children and Grand-children have a Right to an education without a political indoctrination? 

I will leave this here without further comment in this post at this time so you can contemplate this question. 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by lost_shaman

[Uncle Sam]

53 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Should our Children and Grand-children have a Right to an education without a political indoctrination? 

I will leave this here without further comment in this post at this time so you can contemplate this question. 

All children have the right to pure education without politics or religion. Only class that could allow politics is a class dedicated to politics itself.

[preacherman76]

I think he is talking about the many examples of teachers shaming students who are conservative, or God forbid support Trump. Also how the left have militarily taken over college campuses.

Yea it would be nice to do away with those things, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. These colleges are breeding communists, in spite of the fact that communism has killed more people then just about any other ideology. It is sickening to watch 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Education is an odd beast, as we are investing time, money and energy into a process that has an unquantifiable and impossible to predict return. Go to a dentist and you can be fairly certain, barring unfortunate mistakes, you know you’ll get your teeth fixed. Businesses invest in something they think will give THEM a valuable return. 

But education? We’re investing in someone else’s future, it is they who get the valuable return. Frankly, education should NOT be about politics, it should be about the learner, about what is best for them. Society benefits when the child benefits, but that societal benefit is secondary to the benefit to the child. 

 

Furthermore, education is the child of left-leaning ideology. The conservative ideology at the time mass education became prominent centuries ago during the Industrial Revolution would have kept kids down pit and education being on Sunday and only, about and from the Bible and the Bible alone. But that’s where it started, times change and education evolves. Overt Politics have no place in education.

[Gromdor]

The whole point of school is to shape the kids minds into a fashion that benefits society and work.   I would say that politics should stay out of it, but values from both sides are routinely brought in.  My High School had a Young Republicans club for example.  The churchy people routinely try to get themselves voted in on the School Board and push Creationism or Intelligent Design.  Heck, nowadays the big thing is convincing/forcing the kids to either stand/not stand or say the pledge of allegiance.

If you really want politics our of schooling, we probably should look at our school board election system.  We just had one here in Iowa and it is literally divided on party lines with party political issues on child raising as the main focus.  (Progressive Democrats won btw, out of the the 2000 votes cast. Town of 50,000.)

[Lilly]

Back in ancient times, right after the dinosaurs departed, when I was a kid, here's how it went down: Teachers did not talk about political issues. Teachers did not talk about religion. Teachers did not talk about sexual issues. Teachers taught English, Science, Math, History, Language. The parents talked to their children about religion, politics, sexual issues. The parents actually took part in the socialization and development of their children. I know this is a shocking revelation for some but that's how it was 'way back then'.

I'm not saying everything was perfect (far from it) but there's something to be said about allowing people their differences in how they desire to raise their children. As for College level studies, young adults should be able to attend Universities where there exists diverse opinions on these adult issues. They should be able to hear speakers from all sides and they should be free to make up their own minds.

[ExpandMyMind]

9 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

Should our Children and Grand-children have a Right to an education without a political indoctrination? 

I will leave this here without further comment in this post at this time so you can contemplate this question. 

 

In what way are they being indoctrinated? 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Lilly said:

Back in ancient times, right after the dinosaurs departed, when I was a kid, here's how it went down: Teachers did not talk about political issues. Teachers did not talk about religion.

Oh of course they did.  Teachers didn't talk about religion... huh?  From 1963, Abington School District v. Schempp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abington_School_District_v._Schempp

Quote

The Abington case began when Edward Schempp, a Unitarian Universalist and a resident of Abington Township, Pennsylvania, filed suit against the Abington School District in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania to prohibit the enforcement of a Pennsylvania state law that required his children, specifically Ellery Schempp, to hear and sometimes read portions of the Bible as part of their public school education.^[1] That law (24 Pa. Stat. 15-1516, as amended, Pub. Law 1928) required that "[a]t least ten verses from the Holy Bible [be] read, without comment, at the opening of each public school on each school day." Schempp specifically contended that the statute violated his and his family's rights under the First and Fourteenth Amendments.^[2]

Pennsylvania law, like that of four other states, included a statute compelling school districts to perform Bible readings in the mornings before class. 

 

[Lilly]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Oh of course they did.  Teachers didn't talk about religion... huh?  From 1963, Abington School District v. Schempp:

 

I didn't live in Pennsylvania as child (have never lived there actually). I also highly suspect these school districts policies were eventually overturned by higher courts. I'm sure places in the so called 'Bible Belt' did these things as well. That doesn't mean that such practices weren't eventually overturned and removed.

BTW, I don't approve of practices from any side/perspective/religion being promoted in public schools. Where I grew up they seem to have been able to do this, certainly we can manage to achieve this nowadays.

[The Narcisse]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I think he is talking about the many examples of teachers shaming students who are conservative, or God forbid support Trump. Also how the left have militarily taken over college campuses.

Yea it would be nice to do away with those things, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. These colleges are breeding communists, in spite of the fact that communism has killed more people then just about any other ideology. It is sickening to watch 

Militarily? That seems a bit extreme...

[Dark_Grey]

10 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

Should our Children and Grand-children have a Right to an education without a political indoctrination? 

I will leave this here without further comment in this post at this time so you can contemplate this question. 

I don't think education is a "right" but of course the material should be taught without any political influence. At the end of the day, it only seems to matter for the..."lowest common denominator" students. The bright ones will naturally start asking the right questions and begin a journey of self discovery, regardless of what their teachers believed.

[kartikg]

Schools, colleges and universities should strictly stick with the academic subjects, if politics is what any student wants he should visit the nearest party office and get his dose of politics. in my opinion politics just kills the valuable time available for studies and creates ill will among students. 

[truthseeker68]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

In what way are they being indoctrinated? 

 

Have a look at just about any University and what the Majority of Professors are teaching these kids and you can see for yourself. If you can't see that then you're part of the problem. MOST (not all) of the Major Universities are Far Left leaning institutions that promote the Gender fluid, ANTIFA, BLM, ******* crap that's all over the News and Internet. And now the Highschools and Elementary Schools are piling on the bandwagon and doing the same. These types of Schools are most definitely INDOCTRINATING these young people into thinking that Socialism and Communism is a good thing...and they should HATE that they are White....and they should HATE the President...and they shold HATE anyone who thinks there are only 2 genders....and I could go on.

So...

Edited October 18, 2017 by truthseeker68
Fixed a sentence

[ExpandMyMind]

6 minutes ago, truthseeker68 said:

Have a look at just about any University and what the Majority of Professors are teaching these kids and you can see for yourself. If you can't see that then you're part of the problem. MOST (not all) of the Major Universities are Far Left leaning institutions that promote the Gender fluid, ANTIFA, BLM, ******* crap that's all over the News and Internet. And now the Highschools and Elementary Schools are piling on the bandwagon and doing the same. These types of Schools are doing anything except INDOCTRINATING these young people into thinking that Socialism and Communism is a good thing...and they should HATE that they are White....and they should HATE the President...and they shold HATE anyone who thinks there are only 2 genders....and I could go on.

So...

You really have no clue what indoctrination means, do you? 

And, after reading your communism delusions along with the rest of that whining post, I now understand a bit more about your psyche. 

[ExpandMyMind]

16 minutes ago, kartikg said:

Schools, colleges and universities should strictly stick with the academic subjects, if politics is what any student wants he should visit the nearest party office and get his dose of politics. in my opinion politics just kills the valuable time available for studies and creates ill will among students. 

Politics is an academic subject and school is the absolute best place to start learning about the subject. 

[GlitterRose]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I think he is talking about the many examples of teachers shaming students who are conservative, or God forbid support Trump. Also how the left have militarily taken over college campuses.

Yea it would be nice to do away with those things, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. These colleges are breeding communists, in spite of the fact that communism has killed more people then just about any other ideology. It is sickening to watch 

I thought it was about home schooling.

[GlitterRose]

As is the case most places, faculty are varied in their politics and their religion.

I met obviously left-wing, extremely right wing, and moderate people. 

 

[Mr Supertypo]

Out with the indoctrinators.

[The Narcisse]

32 minutes ago, truthseeker68 said:

Have a look at just about any University and what the Majority of Professors are teaching these kids and you can see for yourself. If you can't see that then you're part of the problem. MOST (not all) of the Major Universities are Far Left leaning institutions that promote the Gender fluid, ANTIFA, BLM, ******* crap that's all over the News and Internet. And now the Highschools and Elementary Schools are piling on the bandwagon and doing the same. These types of Schools are most definitely INDOCTRINATING these young people into thinking that Socialism and Communism is a good thing...and they should HATE that they are White....and they should HATE the President...and they shold HATE anyone who thinks there are only 2 genders....and I could go on.

So...

Sounds more like you're bitter that kids are being taught to respect others and to see the hypocrisy in so called conservative "values"

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Education is an odd beast, as we are investing time, money and energy into a process that has an unquantifiable and impossible to predict return. Go to a dentist and you can be fairly certain, barring unfortunate mistakes, you know you’ll get your teeth fixed. Businesses invest in something they think will give THEM a valuable return. 

But education? We’re investing in someone else’s future, it is they who get the valuable return. Frankly, education should NOT be about politics, it should be about the learner, about what is best for them. Society benefits when the child benefits, but that societal benefit is secondary to the benefit to the child. 

 

Furthermore, education is the child of left-leaning ideology. The conservative ideology at the time mass education became prominent centuries ago during the Industrial Revolution would have kept kids down pit and education being on Sunday and only, about and from the Bible and the Bible alone. But that’s where it started, times change and education evolves. Overt Politics have no place in education.

That isn't even close to true. Sure there were people who believed the federal government shouldn't be providing education. And they have been hands down proven correct. The US was number 1 in education before the feds got their hands on it.

[preacherman76]

36 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

I thought it was about home schooling.

Maybe it was. Maybe the OP can clarify.

 

Its to bad more people don't home school. I certainly would if I could. Kids who are home schooled are far more intelligent then their public school peers.

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, The Narcisse said:

Militarily? That seems a bit extreme...

Yea I think extreme is a good word to describe the entire situation. I mean we are literally seeing students having mass violent protests over a Jewish conservative speaker, while calling him a Nazi. And also calling anyone who dared to want to listen to what he had to say a Nazi as well.

[preacherman76]

47 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Politics is an academic subject and school is the absolute best place to start learning about the subject. 

Its the best place to learn the basics of politics. To learn the process. It shouldn't be used as a tool to push certain ideologies.

[The Narcisse]

9 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Maybe it was. Maybe the OP can clarify.

 

Its to bad more people don't home school. I certainly would if I could. Kids who are home schooled are far more intelligent then their public school peers.

If a kid is home schooled they just end up being indoctrinated by their parents...so it's not about them being indoctrinated...but what they're being indoctrinated with.

[preacherman76]

6 minutes ago, The Narcisse said:

If a kid is home schooled they just end up being indoctrinated by their parents...so it's not about them being indoctrinated...but what they're being indoctrinated with.

That's the theory, but the facts prove that to be completely incorrect. You'd be surprised who the vast majority of home school parents are. And the results they bring to higher education.