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lost_shaman

Right to an education without indoctrination.

187 posts in this topic

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Paranormal Panther
14 hours ago, Setton said:

Teachers could tell them that but that won't address a child's curiosity. Don't teachers have a responsibility to teach children how to debate politics? Especially when so many adults are so ill informed. 

In my opinion, they have a responsibility to *not* do that. It's not their place.

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truthseeker68
On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:45 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

You really have no clue what indoctrination means, do you? 

And, after reading your communism delusions along with the rest of that whining post, I now understand a bit more about your psyche. 

So...typical answer from a Liberal...Can't argue the point so you resort to name calling and personal attacks.

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truthseeker68
On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:08 AM, The Narcisse said:

Sounds more like you're bitter that kids are being taught to respect others and to see the hypocrisy in so called conservative "values"

You seem to miss the whole point....they are not taught to respect anything...they are being taught a way of thinking...an ideology...and being told they HAVE to accept things regardless of how they really think and feel. It's not about respecting others. Parents teach their kid's respect...teacher's need to teach STEM and stay away from the so called moral and political (Liberal) teaching....that's NOT their job..!!

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

In my opinion, they have a responsibility to *not* do that. It's not their place.

We have a duty to teach critical thinking skills, a valuable tool to doing that is debating. 

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We have a duty to teach critical thinking skills, a valuable tool to doing that is debating. 

you may have that duty, but here no one teaches critical thinking anymore, not in public schools, maybe few teachers still do, but majority do not, nor they care, and frankly i can't blame them.  they can't tell a kid no, or they me be fired or sued.  

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Only_
On 2017-10-18 at 0:56 PM, Dark_Grey said:

Something I've been pondering lately: maybe the Christian right was....right? Maybe there is something to the moral decay of the progressive Left that all started with gay marriage. They didn't even take a moment to celebrate that victory then it was on to trans-bathrooms. They got trans-bathrooms so naturally they've moved on to hormone replacement and puberty blockers for kids(?)

Now let's teach creatonism in every schools. What's the need for a secular, science-based education when you have the Bible? Let us teach our children how they will be licked by the eternal flames if they should ever become or befriend homosexuals. A bit of school praying will help too.

The Christian right, or how Jehova and his followers on the 'high moral ground' breath ignorance into every crevice of time and space.

Edited by TruthSeeker_

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lost_shaman
48 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We have a duty to teach critical thinking skills, a valuable tool to doing that is debating. 

That is not what is happening in our Public schools. There is no debate. On College campuses today we are seeing violent militant reactions to Conservative speakers. In Public schools conservative kids are bullied and ostracized, sometimes by the Teachers!

 

 

Quote

 

This one is from a student:

The day after the election I was texting my mom to pick me up from school and she almost had to!! Every teacher was crying in class, one even told the whole class “Trump winning is worse than 9/11 and the Columbine shooting.” The amount of liberal propaganda that was pushed every single day in class this year was worse than it’s ever been–and you’re bullied by the teachers and every student if you dare speak against it.

Yeah its horrible, the teachers can absolutely do whatever they want. The administration will do nothing about it!! The day of the election every single student was in the commons chanting “**** TRUMP” and the teachers never did anything. A LOT of people are starting to complain and my mom has some friends who are leaving the school district.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/07/left-wing-indoctrination-in-the-schools-its-worse-than-you-think.php

 

 

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AnchorSteam
On 10/18/2017 at 3:39 AM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

...

Furthermore, education is the child of left-leaning ideology. The conservative ideology at the time mass education became prominent centuries ago during the Industrial Revolution would have kept kids down pit and education being on Sunday and only, about and from the Bible and the Bible alone.

Wow, that has to be one of the most bigoted, narrow and self-serving things I have read all day.

And I have been dealing with Europeans for most of the day .... :P

 

Ascribing all things good to your own side and all things evil to the other guys... isn't that what fanatics do?

 

And BTW; would you consider Prussia of the 1800s to be of the "Left"?

That's where we get the model for compulsory State education from. Why do you think they still call it Kindergarten, or so many Japanese students have such dated school uniforms?

 

And BTW; anyone who thinks that going to School is the best way to learn Social Skills really ought to sit down and recall how twisted Junior and High school really was.

Hypocrisy may win Nelson ratings & Nobel prizes, but this is the Real World.

Edited by AnchorSteam

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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, aztek said:

you may have that duty, but here no one teaches critical thinking anymore, not in public schools, maybe few teachers still do, but majority do not, nor they care, and frankly i can't blame them.  they can't tell a kid no, or they me be fired or sued.  

Then it really is a sad state of affairs in the US.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Wow, that has to be one of the most bigoted, narrow and self-serving things I have read all day.

And I have been dealing with Europeans for most of the day .... :P

 

Ascribing all things good to your own side and all things evil to the other guys... isn't that what fanatics do?

 

And BTW; would you consider Prussia of the 1800s to be of the "Left"?

That's where we get the model for compulsory State education from. Why do you think they still call it Kindergarten, or so many Japanese students have such dated school uniforms?

 

And BTW; anyone who thinks that going to School is the best way to learn Social Skills really ought to sit down and recall how twisted Junior and High school really was.

Hypocrisy may win Nelson ratings & Nobel prizes, but this is the Real World.

The first bill for public education in the UK was sponsored by the Whig Party, who were liberals, however I do concede that a lot of the early educational theorists were of the more “producing better servants of the state” rather than “producing better human beings” mold, so thank heavens for Maria Montessori and Ruldolf Steiner and John Hattie and the UN Declaration for the Rights of the Child.

 

it appears that I’ve gotten the wrong end of the stick, so I retract my prior post. The abuse was unnecessary though Anchor.

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AnchorSteam
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

...

it appears that I’ve gotten the wrong end of the stick, so I retract my prior post.

What? Why?

No no, don't do that, this is social media, not the Media of record.

Maybe we are all taking this a little to seriously. 

Quote

The abuse was unnecessary though Anchor.

If you think that was abuse, then you really have forgotten what high school was like!

;)

Edited by AnchorSteam

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Sir Wearer of Hats

I enjoyed (on the whole) High School :P

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Sir Wearer of Hats

And I was wrong, so I should say “I was wrong to say what I did”, I tried to pander to my ego by avoiding the “w” word.

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Setton
11 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

In my opinion, they have a responsibility to *not* do that. It's not their place.

Then who will? 

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lost_shaman
40 minutes ago, Setton said:

Then who will? 

The premise of this thread was to ask if children have a right not to be indoctrinated. 

You seem to be asking if the School doesn't indoctrinate them then "who will?"

Seriously?

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Sir Wearer of Hats
Just now, lost_shaman said:

The premise of this thread was to ask if children have a right not to be indoctrinated. 

You seem to be asking if the School doesn't indoctrinate them then "who will?"

Seriously?

I think Setton is referring to the “political debate” subtopic and not the wider topic. And I think, when the kids are the right age and are cognitively aware of politics and wanting to be part of the system that schools should be a place where such debates can occur and occur safely. 

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lost_shaman
3 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I think Setton is referring to the “political debate” subtopic and not the wider topic.

What is your connection to the U.S. political debate and the U.S. School system? 

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Setton
55 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

The premise of this thread was to ask if children have a right not to be indoctrinated. 

You seem to be asking if the School doesn't indoctrinate them then "who will?"

Seriously?

I suggest you actually read the posts. 

Clearly education really is wasted on some. 

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The Narcisse
11 hours ago, truthseeker68 said:

You seem to miss the whole point....they are not taught to respect anything...they are being taught a way of thinking...an ideology...and being told they HAVE to accept things regardless of how they really think and feel. It's not about respecting others. Parents teach their kid's respect...teacher's need to teach STEM and stay away from the so called moral and political (Liberal) teaching....that's NOT their job..!!

So there should be no morality taught in schools?

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lost_shaman
1 minute ago, Setton said:
4 minutes ago, Setton said:

I suggest you actually read the posts. 

Clearly education really is wasted on some. 

I'm the OP. I've read every response so far.

 

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aztek
Just now, The Narcisse said:

So there should be no morality taught in schools?

you can teach morality?  or kindness or compassion......  that is not something school will or can teach you, 

there are 2 aspects,  teaching and raising, not the same things, one is done in school the other is not. nor it should be.

Edited by aztek

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Dark_Grey
11 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

What's the need for a secular, science-based education when you have the Bible gender "Science"?

There is a lot of ignorance coming from both sides. Saying "men and women are the same" is no different than saying the Earth was created in 7 days - you will find the same amount of evidence for both. 

I agree that secular, science based education is ideal. The question is how do we make the rest of the world see that?

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truthseeker68
3 hours ago, The Narcisse said:

So there should be no morality taught in schools?

Not exactly...NO. What I mean by that is....moral values and respect for others is something that should be taught by Parent's...and can be learned from social interaction with Family, Friends, even strangers. I do think that BAD behavior should be dealt with in Schools...disciplined and the Parent's made aware. However....it is NOT the Teahcer's job nor the School's in general to be teaching anything to do with Politics or Religion and someone else's idea of moral values....because there are so many diffferent moral values. Society as a whole teaches moral values. Everyone beileves we should not Kill, Steal, or otherwise harm others in general....that's the basics. But it gets much deeper than that. So the Parent's should be the ones teaching children...not the Schools. The problem is that alot of Teachers and Professors have STOPPED teaching STEM...and have begun teaching their so called Moral Agenda and their Political Ideologies to student's...and you can look all over the news to see how thats working out. When I was in Shcool we never had that issue...I never once had to deal with a Teacher trying to shove some Political, Religious, or any other ideas down my throat. My Mother and Father taught me those things...and even they gave me choices in life and did not steer me one way or the other unless it was for my own good..:)

If my daughter came home one day and told me that she learned from her teacher today that there are no such thing as Man and Woman...and that the Muslim religion is misunderstood...and that she hates our President for no other reason than her teacher say's that he is bad...then there is a definite problem with the Schools.

And this is exactly what is happening with alot of people. it is not the job of the teacher to teach these things....unless the Class is specifically for that subject...but even then...you see all the time that a political science teacher LEANS way to the Left and thus teaches his/her political views to the students...who then become INDOCTRINATED into the Liberal Left from an early age....ever here of how Hitler started teaching the kids at a very young age...well....same fricking thing the Liberal's are doing. They just try to disguise it as good MORAL VALUES....you see...it's not hard to brain wash kids.

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Paranormal Panther
20 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We have a duty to teach critical thinking skills, a valuable tool to doing that is debating. 

That's fine. Just keep personal biases out of it.

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Paranormal Panther
12 hours ago, Setton said:

Then who will? 

Their parents will. It's common sense.

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