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Right to an education without indoctrination.


lost_shaman

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5 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That's fine. Just keep personal biases out of it.

I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but I can be sacked for bringing personal biases into lessons. 

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2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but I can be sacked for bringing personal biases into lessons. 

Keep politics and religion out of it. Teach to the subject. Evaluate students on how well they grasp it. That's how it was done for years, so don't "fix" what ain't broke.

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20 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Now let's teach creatonism in every schools. What's the need for a secular, science-based education when you have the Bible? Let us teach our children how they will be licked by the eternal flames if they should ever become or befriend homosexuals. A bit of school praying will help too.

The Christian right, or how Jehova and his followers on the 'high moral ground' breath ignorance into every crevice of time and space.

That's lame. As far as I know, no one here is calling for that. Keep both militant atheists *and* religious fanatics out of the class indoctrination business. They can share their dogma in private schools.

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12 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

The premise of this thread was to ask if children have a right not to be indoctrinated. 

You seem to be asking if the School doesn't indoctrinate them then "who will?"

Seriously?

Thanks for that. It's not just me, then. ;)

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I think we pretty much established that there is no "Right to not be indoctrinated" in our Constitution or else where, now we are just arguing who gets to do it.

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12 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

I'm the OP. I've read every response so far.

Then I stand by my last statement and recommend your school system prioritises reading comprehension. 

1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Their parents will. It's common sense.

But they don't. Which is why I began this by saying should teachers take on this responsibility when so many adults are so ill informed. And so few parents actually discuss anything with children these days.

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1 minute ago, Setton said:

Then I stand by my last statement and recommend your school system prioritises reading comprehension. 

But they don't. Which is why I began this by saying should teachers take on this responsibility when so many adults are so ill informed. And so few parents actually discuss anything with children these days.

It's not the place of public school teachers to do this. It's not their place to determine who is or is not ill-informed on such things. They should teach the subjects to the students, and they should evaluate their progress accordingly. There are times when teachers, who don't know their rear from a hole in the ground, may wrongly assume that students are not informed, on extraneous topics, when said students don't share their BS propaganda, so said teachers should just **** and teach the subject.

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15 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It's not the place of public school teachers to do this. It's not their place to determine who is or is not ill-informed on such things. They should teach the subjects to the students, and they should evaluate their progress accordingly. There are times when teachers, who don't know their rear from a hole in the ground, may wrongly assume that students are not informed, on extraneous topics, when said students don't share their BS propaganda, so said teachers should just **** and teach the subject.

I may be wrong, but I believe Setton is discussing teachers teaching children about politics in general terms not about pushing an agenda.

To be honest many people get their political views from their parents,  and these views where often passed from their parents. Offering an open bipartisan study into politics could essentially allow a child more freedom to come to chose their own political views based on understanding rather than heredity.

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40 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It's not the place of public school teachers to do this. It's not their place to determine who is or is not ill-informed on such things. They should teach the subjects to the students, and they should evaluate their progress accordingly. There are times when teachers, who don't know their rear from a hole in the ground, may wrongly assume that students are not informed, on extraneous topics, when said students don't share their BS propaganda, so said teachers should just **** and teach the subject.

Again then, if it is not for teachers to teach and parents won't, who will? 

24 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I may be wrong, but I believe Setton is discussing teachers teaching children about politics in general terms not about pushing an agenda.

Ah, reading comprehension. Thank you Kismit :-)

Although I'm pretty sure both Panther and lost shaman know exactly what I'm saying but it's harder to argue with than creating a straw man argument that I want to indoctrinate children into 'leftest' (spelling, please check and copy x3 below) ideology :rolleyes:

 

For Panther and lost shaman's benefit, here is the post you should  have read. I've even underlined the key information for you. 

On 19/10/2017 at 9:07 AM, Setton said:

Teachers could tell them that but that won't address a child's curiosity. Don't teachers have a responsibility to teach children how to debate politics? Especially when so many adults are so ill informed. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Setton said:

Then I stand by my last statement and recommend your school system prioritises reading comprehension. 

No one failed to comprehend anything you wrote! 

 

5 minutes ago, Setton said:

into 'leftest' (spelling, please check and copy x3 below)

Oh. Well you really got me there.  Guess you must be too Smart to make typo's ever huh?

 

8 minutes ago, Setton said:

Don't teachers have a responsibility to teach children how to debate politics?

We actually used to have Government classes in the U.S. and that is NOT at all what this thread is about! Talk about "reading comprehension"! And "not reading" the thread! 

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On 10/19/2017 at 3:07 AM, Setton said:

Teachers could tell them that but that won't address a child's curiosity. Don't teachers have a responsibility to teach children how to debate politics? Especially when so many adults are so ill informed. 

Do you want to clarify the above since you are claiming people have "reading comprehension" issues?  Who are these "ill informed" Adults Setton? 

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36 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

 

Oh. Well you really got me there.  Guess you must be too Smart to make typo's ever huh?

 

You should have a comma after "Oh", and then not capitalize "well".  Also, "Smart" shouldn't be capitalized, and "typo's" deserves no apostrophe, as it is not possessive.  You used "too" correctly, though, which is quite impressive, but still missing a comma after "ever".  Don't worry, you seem too smart not to figure it out sooner or later.  I know I should be putting my punctuation within my parentheses...but I refuse to do that, it just doesn't seem right.

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  To be fair you should have indented your paragraph. Who cares? I do admit I made a typo in the OP. So what? 

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On 10/19/2017 at 4:07 AM, Setton said:

Teachers could tell them that but that won't address a child's curiosity. Don't teachers have a responsibility to teach children how to debate politics? Especially when so many adults are so ill informed. 

Teachers in public schools have not been allowed to answer questions about how the theory of evolution contradicts the Bible for years. They are not to reveal how they personally feel about it either way. This shouldn't be any different.

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5 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That's lame. As far as I know, no one here is calling for that.

I think you underestimate the Christian right's religious agenda.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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2 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

I think you underestimate the Christian right's agenda.

Obviously the United States has restrictions on Religion in Public Schools. That is not an issue here.

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4 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

 

We actually used to have Government classes in the U.S. and that is NOT at all what this thread is about! Talk about "reading comprehension"! And "not reading" the thread! 

Then what is the point of this thread, if it isn't to discuss how politics should be approached in education?

Is it just a political bashing thread? I  do hope not.

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7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but I can be sacked for bringing personal biases into lessons. 

They can't with religion, but can and do with politics.

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5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

They can't with religion, but can and do with politics.

So you can be sacked if you show a bias in religious views but not politics? Bias should not be allowed at all.

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13 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Then what is the point of this thread, if it isn't to discuss how politics should be approached in education?

 

The point of the thread is to ask and discuss if children/parents have a right to an education within our Public school system without a political indoctrination. As of today children in the U.S. are being indoctrinated with Leftist ideology.

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Just now, lost_shaman said:

 

The point of the thread is to ask and discuss if children/parents have a right to an education within our Public school system without a political indoctrination. As of today children in the U.S. are being indoctrinated with Leftist ideology.

Then simple logic states that the conversation will diverge to the topic of how politics should be approached in education. 

Not allowing that line of conversation means you may well only be interested in hearing people discuss how poor and horrible your education system is. Are you only after people who wish to post the same ideas as you, confirmation?

Other countries do not allow teachers to teach political preference, but I guess other countries are not held to ransom by the right to free speech either.

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11 minutes ago, Kismit said:

So you can be sacked if you show a bias in religious views but not politics? Bias should not be allowed at all.

Yes, and I totally agree, but that is the way it is. 

These kids aren't being taught how to think critically, they are being taught how to think...period.

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2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Other countries do not allow teachers to teach political preference, but I guess other countries are not held to ransom by the right to free speech either.

Is it really just a matter of free speech if a Teacher or group of them decide to indoctrinate a communities children? And this is happening all across the country in most school districts.

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8 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Yes, and I totally agree, but that is the way it is. 

These kids aren't being taught how to think critically, they are being taught how to think...period.

Then this again is not a political issues.  It's a curriculum issue. Who ever is responsible for setting curriculum needs to make critical thinking compulsory.

Critical thinking was taught at my public High school in Australia, in fact I remember how excited the teacher was about the importance of it as a subject. 

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1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

Is it really just a matter of free speech if a Teacher or group of them decide to indoctrinate a communities children? And this is happening all across the country in most school districts.

Most likely.

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