Is Demiurge a Satan?

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

On 10/30/2017 at 3:38 PM, Mr. Argon said:

Some sources describe a Demiurge as a benign creator of physical universe, while some describe him as a personification of evil. So I am really puzzled about a nature of this Deity. First of all Plato and Gnostics have a contrasting view of Demiurge. Plato describes him as benign while the Gnostics on the other hand describe him as a blind God who created a physical world as a prison for the soul. This concept of the Gnostics is also at odds with Christianity which claims that all of the creation is a deed of all-good God, which I find absurd considering evil which we encounter all around us. Also, Demiurge is sometimes equated with a God of the Old Testament. Pretty confusing.

 

Christianity is a mashup ("...and that's okay"). Think of it as a Platonic, "Judaized" (an actual Biblical word) religion with (pagan or "not pagan to make you feel better") magic thrown in the mix. Unlike the original Jewish "satan," the "devil" (or Christian "satan") is also heavily influenced by Zoroastrian religion since Pharisaic beliefs were the foundation of Second Temple Judaism. Think of Pharisees with Farsi in the back of your mind...

 

 

[Illyrius]

The line below the upper profile makes me think. I think it is the opposite case. I think that when you look into the darkness that you carry more light in you than before. Paradox maybe.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

3 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

The line below the upper profile makes me think. I think it is the opposite case. I think that when you look into the darkness that you carry more light in you than before. Paradox maybe.

The line is about Father Moore's recent, triumphant (but brutal) battle with the devil, an unforgettable traumatic experience.

The movie is not about metaphysical enlightenment, NDE, nor spiritual "Awakening." It, however, succeeds in conveying the scar of such a violent (on several levels), malevolent, unexpected encounter.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Ehrman Pagels 1

[GlitterRose]

14 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

Although most of people don't want to think about such things and rather think of laying under a palm in a shadow of a breezy summer afternoon, I'll just say that suffering is brutal as nature sometimes is. But I view it all through the principle of Karma and Reincarnation.

I could buy into Karma if we remembered ****, but we don't.

So we don't learn anything from incarnations.

If we do reincarnate, it's just another trip around the merry-go-round with no meaning. 

We should hope to not go round another time.

[Illyrius]

6 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

So we don't learn anything from incarnations.

Let's take for example the process of lerning to write. You can't exactly remember the process, but an advancement came naturally, subconsciouslly and consciously at the same time; the same way is with incarnations. You learn, becoming more advanced though you can't remember how and when.

By the way I post this only as a theory in which I believe in because it makes most sense to me.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Mr. Argon

[Illyrius]

6 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

f we do reincarnate, it's just another trip around the merry-go-round with no meaning. 

We should hope to not go round another time.

The question of meaning is a difficult one. So I can understand what you say.

[Illyrius]

Tertullian accuses Marcion of Sinope, the first major heretic of Christianity in the 1st century, that he "[held that] the Old Testament was a scandal to the faithful [...] and [...] accounted for it by postulating [that Jehovah was] a secondary deity, a demiurgus, who was god, in a sense, but not the supreme God; he was just, rigidly just, he had his good qualities, but he was not the good god, who was Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ."^[4] The Church condemned his writings as heretical.

John Arendzen (1909) in the Catholic Encyclopedia (1913) mentions that Eusebius accused Apelles, the 2nd-century AD Gnostic, of considering the Inspirer of Old-Testament prophecies to be not a god, but an evil angel.^[5]

Hegemonius (4th century) accuses the Persian prophet Mani, founder of the Manichaean sect in the 3rd century AD, identified Jehovah as "the devil god which created the world"^[6] and said that "he who spoke with Moses, the Jews, and the priests [...] is the [Prince] of Darkness, [...] not the god of truth."^[7]

According to their critics, these heretics referred to the Abrahamic God variously as "a demiurgus",^[4] "an evil angel",^[5] "the devil god",^[6] "the Prince of Darkness",^[7] "the source of all evil",^[8] "the Devil",^[9] "a demon",^[10] "a cruel, wrathful, warlike tyrant",^[11] "Satan"^[12] and "the first beast of the book of Revelation".^[13]

 

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The Ophite Gnostic Christians maintained that Jehovah was “an inferior being” and rejected the Old Testament entirely, giving as their reason that it was the product of, and related to, this inferior being. Bishop Marcion of Synope (85-160 AD) insisted that the Jewish god Jehovah was “totally different and distinct from the Deity who sent Jesus to reveal the divine truth and preach the glad tidings, to bring reconciliation and salvation to all.” Marcion taught that the mission and intent of Jesus was to DO AWAY with Jehovah, who he said “was opposed to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, as matter is to spirit, impurity to purity.” (See “Isis Unveiled” Vol. 2 by H.P. Blavatsky)

Basilides (117-138 AD) held much the same views and he was known to be a disciple of the Apostle Matthew and of Glaucias or Glaucus, who had been a disciple of the Apostle Peter.

In fact, not even all the Jews of Old Testament days were supporters of Jehovah. There were two distinct schools of thought amongst them – the Elohists and the Jehovists. They were often in conflict with one another, the antagonism usually being started by the Jehovistic believers, which is hardly surprising, considering Jehovah’s reputation as a God of War.

The portions of Scriptures belonging to these two were later completely and purposely mixed up and blended together by certain early fathers of the Christian Church in order to serve their own purposes. In “War in Heaven”, Godolphin Mitford wrote, “The Christians – far less clear-sighted than the great Mystic and Liberator whose name they have assumed, whose doctrines they have misunderstood and travestied, and whose memory they have blackened by their deeds – took the Jewish Jehovah as he was, and of course strove vainly to reconcile the Gospel of Light and Liberty with the Deity of Darkness and Submission.”

By the “Deity of Darkness and Submission,” he is of course referring to Jehovah.

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[Truthseeker007]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:38 AM, Mr. Argon said:

Some sources describe a Demiurge as a benign creator of physical universe, while some describe him as a personification of evil. So I am really puzzled about a nature of this Deity. First of all Plato and Gnostics have a contrasting view of Demiurge. Plato describes him as benign while the Gnostics on the other hand describe him as a blind God who created a physical world as a prison for the soul. This concept of the Gnostics is also at odds with Christianity which claims that all of the creation is a deed of all-good God, which I find absurd considering evil which we encounter all around us. Also, Demiurge is sometimes equated with a God of the Old Testament. Pretty confusing.

 

Yes it can all be very confusing.Maybe if it is thought of in terms of energy. I mean is there really evil and good? Something that is considered evil by someone may not be considered evil by someone else. So evil and good is more of a perception. There is positive and negative energy as you can see when you use magnets. So in order for their to be positive their needs to be negative energy and vise versa. We can think in terms of light also. Without dark their can be no light and without light their can be no dark. I don't know it this makes any sense. We also have the yin and yang aspect. So the Universe we are in now works in negative and positive energies but I have heard this could be a bad copy of the original universe so I don't know but this is all great things to ponder on. Also great question Mr Argon! I am not going to claim I know the answer.lol!

[Truthseeker007]

1 hour ago, Mr. Argon said:

Tertullian accuses Marcion of Sinope, the first major heretic of Christianity in the 1st century, that he "[held that] the Old Testament was a scandal to the faithful [...] and [...] accounted for it by postulating [that Jehovah was] a secondary deity, a demiurgus, who was god, in a sense, but not the supreme God; he was just, rigidly just, he had his good qualities, but he was not the good god, who was Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ."^[4] The Church condemned his writings as heretical.

John Arendzen (1909) in the Catholic Encyclopedia (1913) mentions that Eusebius accused Apelles, the 2nd-century AD Gnostic, of considering the Inspirer of Old-Testament prophecies to be not a god, but an evil angel.^[5]

Hegemonius (4th century) accuses the Persian prophet Mani, founder of the Manichaean sect in the 3rd century AD, identified Jehovah as "the devil god which created the world"^[6] and said that "he who spoke with Moses, the Jews, and the priests [...] is the [Prince] of Darkness, [...] not the god of truth."^[7]

According to their critics, these heretics referred to the Abrahamic God variously as "a demiurgus",^[4] "an evil angel",^[5] "the devil god",^[6] "the Prince of Darkness",^[7] "the source of all evil",^[8] "the Devil",^[9] "a demon",^[10] "a cruel, wrathful, warlike tyrant",^[11] "Satan"^[12] and "the first beast of the book of Revelation".^[13]

 

^-source-

^{*****************************************************************}

The Ophite Gnostic Christians maintained that Jehovah was “an inferior being” and rejected the Old Testament entirely, giving as their reason that it was the product of, and related to, this inferior being. Bishop Marcion of Synope (85-160 AD) insisted that the Jewish god Jehovah was “totally different and distinct from the Deity who sent Jesus to reveal the divine truth and preach the glad tidings, to bring reconciliation and salvation to all.” Marcion taught that the mission and intent of Jesus was to DO AWAY with Jehovah, who he said “was opposed to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, as matter is to spirit, impurity to purity.” (See “Isis Unveiled” Vol. 2 by H.P. Blavatsky)

Basilides (117-138 AD) held much the same views and he was known to be a disciple of the Apostle Matthew and of Glaucias or Glaucus, who had been a disciple of the Apostle Peter.

In fact, not even all the Jews of Old Testament days were supporters of Jehovah. There were two distinct schools of thought amongst them – the Elohists and the Jehovists. They were often in conflict with one another, the antagonism usually being started by the Jehovistic believers, which is hardly surprising, considering Jehovah’s reputation as a God of War.

The portions of Scriptures belonging to these two were later completely and purposely mixed up and blended together by certain early fathers of the Christian Church in order to serve their own purposes. In “War in Heaven”, Godolphin Mitford wrote, “The Christians – far less clear-sighted than the great Mystic and Liberator whose name they have assumed, whose doctrines they have misunderstood and travestied, and whose memory they have blackened by their deeds – took the Jewish Jehovah as he was, and of course strove vainly to reconcile the Gospel of Light and Liberty with the Deity of Darkness and Submission.”

By the “Deity of Darkness and Submission,” he is of course referring to Jehovah.

*************************************************************

-source-

Here is some info you might find interesting since you are on the subject of Jehovah. This is channeled information but it is quite interesting to say the least:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/master_file/tencommandments.htm

This Awareness indicates that much of the information in the Old Testament came from various schools of both the Middle East and also from India and Egypt, with various legends and stories rewritten and retranslated from earlier writings or from other cultural and religious teachings or other sources, and rewritten specifically for the Hebrew teachings and their use. This Awareness indicates that some of these Old Testament stories and writings were based on the history of the Hebrew people and some deal with the entity who called himself Jehovah.

This Awareness wishes to again explain that when being described as a being who appeared to Moses or to others, this entity reported in the Old Testament as Jehovah was, in fact, a commander of what may in modern terms be called an UFO or spaceship. This Awareness indicates that these commanders having occasion to check on the operation of their clones or the results of their genetic experiments did, in fact, and on occasion, intervene in their behalf during battles and conflicts with other people on the Earth.

This Awareness indicates these stories make up some of the Old Testament reports of Jehovah. This Awareness indicates that the actual names of these entities was not Jehovah, was not Lord, --- Lord was merely a title. This Awareness indicates that these were what in modern terms would be called the commander or captain of the spaceship. This Awareness indicates that on occasion, these Lords or the commandeer of the spaceship, would exit from the ship and walk with earth people, and on other occasions, the entity would remain in the ship and provide certain air cover or conduct some military or impressive maneuver with the ship and such descriptions would be recorded and would be referred to as the "Lord, creating or acting as a pillar of fire or a terrific wind" or some other form of force and power. This Awareness indicates that these descriptions of the Lord are often given in terms of the ship and its actions rather than of the pilot, captain or commander of the ship; but on occasions, the entity would be described in human terms as "walking with Moses".

This Awareness indicates that these Ten Commandments were essentially to be the law of the tribe for their social needs to keep the tribe in order, to give them some sense of identity, and to allow a social structure which would be suitable for their survival so that the rules of the society could be enforced by each of the members of society being made aware of what the rules were. This Awareness indicates, however, that Jehovah or the commander, in order to make sure that these entities did not become too self-righteous and believe themselves capable of pleasing totally the commander, these entities were given conflicting rules whereby they could not possibly follow one rule without breaking another.

This Awareness suggests that entities read the Ten Commandments, then read on for several chapters, and you will notice that whereas you are informed that the Lord commanded that: "thou shalt not kill", within a few verses later, the Lord is also explaining that if a man does not behave in a certain manner, he shall be killed and other actions shall be taken against his property, and in some cases, against his family. This Awareness indicates that the Lord also, at some point, asked that the first born son be sacrificed, and, at other points, assisted these entities in slaying their enemies.

This Awareness indicates that there were other conflicting rules throughout the approximately one hundred various laws which were given to the Hebrews through the various commandments and these, in many cases, conflicted with the Ten Commandments. This Awareness indicates that this action of creating conflicting laws was particularly designed to make sure that none of the followers would be able to follow the laws and that all would feel guilty and at odds with their Lord.

This Awareness indicates that these entities, while referred to by the Hebrews as Jehovah (and this being the common name given to these Lords), this Awareness indicates that these being the essential creators of the Semites, the Semites having being created by the Lord of Mars or lords of Mars, placed originally in Atlantis then again at later times watched over in the area presently known as the Middle East by the returning commanders of the spaceships. This Awareness indicates these entities being referred to as "Jehovah" -- that being the English translation of the Hebrew name JHVH which, in fact, was never spoken in Hebrew.

[Illyrius]

At this point of discussion I would like to ask a simple question.

Does anyone see parallels between Demiurge, Satan, and the Old Testament God Jehovah - and if they do, what are those parallels - and what are eventual differences?