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NiP98

Ghosts, Real or Fake?

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NiP98

I am doing a project in college about the paranormal, can you tell me if and why you think ghosts are real. Also if you have had any encounters with the paranormal could you write about it. Thank you.

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papageorge1

I think most ghost sightings are real but not all.

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Merc14

There is no such thing as ghosts IMO.  There is no explanation for how something could manifest itself without using energy of some kind in which case we could detect them, analyze their composition and explain their existence but that just isn't the case, all the silly ghost hunter tools aside.

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rashore

Welcome to UM Ni :st

My first questions are.. what is the timeframe of your project? When do you need to be done gathering info? If this is for college, it would be nice to know when the data gathering is over. I assume since you posted this in the ghost section and under a ghost title, you are asking about the ghost phenomenon and not phenomenons in general.

So I'll toss data into your hat. I'm a skeptical believer. I'm also a bit of a lore-tripper and researcher.

Do I believe ghost phenomenon exists? Yes. Weird things happen, and people do have experiences, and a lot of those things get filed under ghost phenomenon. Ghost lore really does exist for a reason.

Do I believe the ghost phenomena can be attributed to dead humans spirits/souls/whatever? I'm not sure. By most accounts IMO, no.

Why? Because doing a lot of lore-tripping and research, I tend to go case by case. A lot these stories have mundane explanations. A lot are very well explained with science. Cases dismissed. Many are hoaxes or the product of human activity rather than ghostly things. Some of them remain more ambiguous- within spooky and science multiple explanations can be offered, but none settled on definitively. Weird happens, and sometimes we can't satisfactorily explain that particular weird, or at least not yet- that does not necessarily mean it was a dead person ghost. But it don't mean the science currently being offered is right either, and we apparently need to try to keep figuring it out.

 

 

 

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Skulduggery

Ghosts? No, can't say they exist. I do try to look at individual experience with an open mind, but I am unconvinced. I do, however, believe there's a possibility of types of energy people haven't been able to detect yet. I can only say I believe that as a possibility, but nothing more. I have had a few strange encounters. One time, when I was around family members, I witnessed a heavy table jolt forward. I have no clue how it happened. Two other people saw it. I've seen quite a few other things in life which left me scratching my head but that one really left a lasting imprint on my memory. As odd as that was, I wouldn't wager any money on it being a spirit/ghost. If there is any bit of truth in the possibility of some type of unexplained phenom happening in this world, it stands to reason it might be something involving a type of unknown energy, but that's all I can attribute it to.

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Lumpino

I am sure that some beings called gosts or spirits are real. There are many ways to get them to apparition. But it's good if someone wants to try it evocation some higher being. Not a ghost of a dead man.  Necromancy is very dangerous. 

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I'mConvinced
On 02/11/2017 at 5:17 AM, Skulduggery said:

but I am unconvinced

:o

My arch nemesis! 

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DragonFire22

I think Ghost could exist, because there are way TOO many sightings. WAY TOO MANY!!! Not just like 100, but hundred times at least that!

Then you have a lot of video and photo evidences...

Are all those people lying? Who knows, I don't think we can ASSUME others are lying just because anyone don't think Ghosts makes sense, maybe they are honest for real, you know?

 

"He must be a liar for showing a ghost photo/video" is a BS thinking/attitude, to me.

If a LOT of those people are indeed honest, judging by WAY TOO MANY sightings,  I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!

 

Edited by DragonFire22

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DragonFire22

Also, unless you ARE that person who caught a photo/video, or personally experienced something like ghost yourself (then you CAN assert that ghost exist if you want), you CAN NOT know for sure it's real. Just have to "Want to believe" but not insist ghost exist cuz you never experienced anything yourself.

 

So, your project for college should examine 3 things that I mentioned

 

1) A LOT of people who reported 'Ghost' sightings, find out how many people that is.

2) Do their evidences look real? Why or not?

3) Figure out if these people are honest people or liars, can their testimony be trusted?

Edited by DragonFire22
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ChrLzs

Why do you think the only possibility is that people are lying?

Also, how many is 'too many'?  Ghosts and horror stories and halloween etc are part of the cultural psyche, so of course lots of people will claim 'sightings'.

How about you point to the very best evidenced sighting, in your opinion?  Before choosing and discussing just how convincing it is, remember that all the others are worse....

Edited by ChrLzs

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DragonFire22

>Why do you think the only possibility is that people are lying?<

What else, beside lying, after video/photo that clearly showed ghost or paranormal activity?

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Merc14
3 minutes ago, DragonFire22 said:

>Why do you think the only possibility is that people are lying?<

What else, beside lying, after video/photo that clearly showed ghost or paranormal activity?

I know folks that truly believe they saw a ghost.   We know  a lot more about the brain now (or at least guys like me and Chris now have access to it) and can explain what they saw, but they weren't lying, ChrLzs post above explains the myriad reasons why. 

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DragonFire22

>We know  a lot more ... and can explain"<

WE DO NOT KNOW IT ALL!!! (Normal angle)

 

For many Paranormal videos/photo evidences, NOT even damn smart rocket scientists can conclusively figure out what's going on!

 

A guess, maybe? A theory, maybe? But these aren't gonna be good enough!

So, if that person isn't lying, then surely it's pretty good evidence of ghost, paranormal!

Edited by DragonFire22
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ChaosRose
2 hours ago, DragonFire22 said:

I think Ghost could exist, because there are way TOO many sightings. WAY TOO MANY!!! Not just like 100, but hundred times at least that!

Then you have a lot of video and photo evidences...

Are all those people lying? Who knows, I don't think we can ASSUME others are lying just because anyone don't think Ghosts makes sense, maybe they are honest for real, you know?

 

"He must be a liar for showing a ghost photo/video" is a BS thinking/attitude, to me.

If a LOT of those people are indeed honest, judging by WAY TOO MANY sightings,  I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!

 

They don't have to be lying, though.

They might even be experiencing actual phenomena. 

It's just incredibly likely that they're responsible for it.

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kmt_sesh

I rank myself as a skeptical believer, like rashore. However, I'm probably more willing than most skeptics to believe in the possibility of ghosts. Now, "ghost" is a term of convenience, because no one really knows what happens to us when we die, Does some part of us live on? Some would say yes, some no. I'm more willing to say yes.

I've always wanted to experience a ghost. My wider family has, so I'll share one story I've told at UM before. My mom's mom, Irene, lived in an old farmhouse around which the town had grown over the years. There were several outbuildings, including a large old barn she used as a garage. The old loft was for storage. I loved that old barn and always wanted to climb up and play in the loft, but could never understand why my mom and grandmother wouldn't let me.

My grandfather (my mom's dad) had died when I was very young. I don't remember him well but I know he lingered for too long and died too young. My grandmother lived alone in that old farmhouse for many years, just she and her pet parakeet, Tweety. My grandmother had stored my grandfather's old rocking chair up in the barn's loft. It was only when I was older that my mom and grandmother told me this, but several times when my grandmother went up into the loft to get something or store something, she would see the chair start rocking by itself. Once she heard a disembodied voice say, "Irene, I love you." She was convinced it was my grandfather hanging around to keep her company, and she felt at peace with it.

So that's why I wasn't allowed in the loft. They were afraid I would see (or hear) this and get freaked out. Maybe, but I've always wished I could've experienced this.

A couple of years ago my dad, sister, and I headed back up to those regions for a family reunion. On the last day we piled in the car and drove around the old haunts, many of which I'd not seen for many years. We drove by my grandmother's old property to see what was there. The house had been lovingly restored, but the old barn and other outbuildings were long gone.

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kmt_sesh
On November 1, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Merc14 said:

There is no such thing as ghosts IMO...

There's a ghost coming up behind you...right...now!

ghost-walking-t.gif

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DragonFire22
41 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It's just incredibly likely that they're responsible for it.

 

You can't disprove by 'likely', 'probably', 'my university educated guesses'. You disprove by 'Absolute certainty'!

Edited by DragonFire22

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trevor borocz johnson

A ghost can come through random background like white noise or certain arbitrary art forms. Edison heard them in the background of recordings as a faint voice he said wasn't on the recording when he made it. This is where I would say that it might just be your own subconscious displaying these messages. but I have proof that they can be influenced by outside beings, In ghosthunting attempts I can clearly hear again and again the same unique response in some recordings that fits the question I ask. But i can simultaneously hallucinate anything I want to hear in the same voice that I hear the ghost hunting response.

I have an experiment you can try here http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/308178-ghosthunting-listening-to-amplified-silence/

 

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ChaosRose
5 hours ago, DragonFire22 said:

You can't disprove by 'likely', 'probably', 'my university educated guesses'. You disprove by 'Absolute certainty'!

Who's out to disprove anything?

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ChrLzs
16 hours ago, DragonFire22 said:

You can't disprove by 'likely', 'probably', 'my university educated guesses'. You disprove by 'Absolute certainty'!

No.  Absolutely Wrong.  Science doesn't disprove at all, but it does dismiss events unless (or until) there is 'reasonable' evidence, and it provides a mechanism whereby the best and most reasonable theory to explain observed events will percolate to the top...

Generally, a cool story is not evidence.  Corroborated stories is getting a little closer, but still not quite there.  Physical evidence - yay!  Properly recorded evidence - yay!

Once those exist and we have some real observations to explain, science can get involved in coming up with theories... 

 

So the question is - are we there yet?  Just name your best evidenced case.

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ChrLzs
17 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I rank myself as a skeptical believer, like rashore. However, I'm probably more willing than most skeptics to believe in the possibility of ghosts. Now, "ghost" is a term of convenience, because no one really knows what happens to us when we die, Does some part of us live on? Some would say yes, some no. I'm more willing to say yes.

I've always wanted to experience a ghost. My wider family has, so I'll share one story I've told at UM before. My mom's mom, Irene, lived in an old farmhouse around which the town had grown over the years. There were several outbuildings, including a large old barn she used as a garage. The old loft was for storage. I loved that old barn and always wanted to climb up and play in the loft, but could never understand why my mom and grandmother wouldn't let me.

My grandfather (my mom's dad) had died when I was very young. I don't remember him well but I know he lingered for too long and died too young. My grandmother lived alone in that old farmhouse for many years, just she and her pet parakeet, Tweety. My grandmother had stored my grandfather's old rocking chair up in the barn's loft. It was only when I was older that my mom and grandmother told me this, but several times when my grandmother went up into the loft to get something or store something, she would see the chair start rocking by itself. Once she heard a disembodied voice say, "Irene, I love you." She was convinced it was my grandfather hanging around to keep her company, and she felt at peace with it.

So that's why I wasn't allowed in the loft. They were afraid I would see (or hear) this and get freaked out. Maybe, but I've always wished I could've experienced this.

A couple of years ago my dad, sister, and I headed back up to those regions for a family reunion. On the last day we piled in the car and drove around the old haunts, many of which I'd not seen for many years. We drove by my grandmother's old property to see what was there. The house had been lovingly restored, but the old barn and other outbuildings were long gone.

KMT, I hope you don't mind me using this lovely anecdote as a bit of an example...?

I'd make a couple of comments:

- folks (and some old folks like me especially) love to tell stories, and they may well be based on real events, but sometimes not.

- memories change over the years, and little exaggerations are likely to convince not only the listener, but also the story teller - their memories will actually change such that they won't be 'lying', but their memory may not quite match the original events.

- it's wonderful to think that a person you have lost might be able to communicate in some small way, and we love to collect such anecdotes and that then influences our beliefs and memories.

- without access to that original room, no-one can now investigate it, but if it was in a loft, I'd point out that the floorboards/supports might flex a little, and just by standing or walking in a particular place, that might induce a rocking to chair to rock slightly.  Your grandmother might not have consciously realised she was causing the effect..  There are also other possibilities, but let's leave it at that as we can now never know, and sometimes it's nicer to just believe in the 'magic'...

 

To some, it might seem I am being unkind by suggesting things that might 'mundanely' explain something magical or spiritual or ghostly, but my attitude is that if anything, looking at these possibilities just reinforces that we live in an incredibly beautiful, complex and interesting *real* world, and that our minds are also far more complex and interesting than most think...

  

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Guyver
On 11/1/2017 at 10:18 AM, NiP98 said:

I am doing a project in college about the paranormal, can you tell me if and why you think ghosts are real. Also if you have had any encounters with the paranormal could you write about it. Thank you.

A friend of mine is a former professor and is now promoted to academic dean at a prestigious university.  He was once an atheist.  He and his wife are the most trustworthy/respectable type of people you would expect to meet.

They bought an old place on a few acres....it used to be a ranch house or something.....I don't remember.  But, they told their story of the encounter that they had, well the wife told it first.....and he was white as a sheet.  There is no question in my mind they believed the story they told, and it was a real ghost story that ended like a horror flick with a celtic cross and old priest....the whole nine yards.

In any event, he's no longer an atheist.  

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kmt_sesh
6 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

KMT, I hope you don't mind me using this lovely anecdote as a bit of an example...?

...

I exist ti be made an example of, or something like that.

Quote

- without access to that original room, no-one can now investigate it, but if it was in a loft, I'd point out that the floorboards/supports might flex a little, and just by standing or walking in a particular place, that might induce a rocking to chair to rock slightly.  Your grandmother might not have consciously realised she was causing the effect..  There are also other possibilities, but let's leave it at that as we can now never know, and sometimes it's nicer to just believe in the 'magic'...

That is a very good explanation and could be the reason for some of it. It doesn't explain hearing his voice, however. But I grant there can be any number of scenarios at play. My grandmother liked to tell me stories about the family, yet she was still a solid and rational woman. So was my mom. This is only one of several stories they told me, and not the creepiest to be sure. But I've always liked a giid ghost story.

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DragonFire22
7 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

No.  Absolutely Wrong.  Science doesn't disprove at all, but it does dismiss events unless (or until) there is 'reasonable' evidence, and it provides a mechanism whereby the best and most reasonable theory to explain observed events will percolate to the top...

Generally, a cool story is not evidence.  Corroborated stories is getting a little closer, but still not quite there.  Physical evidence - yay!  Properly recorded evidence - yay!

Once those exist and we have some real observations to explain, science can get involved in coming up with theories... 

 

So the question is - are we there yet?  Just name your best evidenced case.

I KNOW what science is. OK? But, I also know how skeptics think... way too many skeptics are kinda getting too arrogant on 'DISMISSING anything they don't think is likely, as their main source of evidence".

 

If you don't think 'Ghost' is likely, you probably could come up with thousands of possibilities just for the sake of trying to dismiss it. And all those 1000s possibilities could sound science-y, sure, Whether or not you could 100% prove it false, you don't care. Educated guess is good enough for you skeptics,

That's NO good, to people believe or want to believe! To prove something is not paranormal, you DON'T guess or go with a theory, likely possibility.

Edited by DragonFire22

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kmt_sesh
8 minutes ago, DragonFire22 said:

I KNOW what science is. OK? But, I also know how skeptics think... way too many skeptics are kinda getting too arrogant on 'DISMISSING anything they don't think is likely, as their main source of evidence".

 

If you don't think 'Ghost' is likely, you probably could come up with thousands of possibilities just for the sake of trying to dismiss it. Whether or not you could 100% prove it false, you don't care. Educated guess is good enough for you skeptics,

That's NO good, to people believe or want to believe! To prove something is not paranormal, you DON'T guess or go with a theory, likely possibility.

I get what you're saying, but in the opposite extreme I've seen too many posters at UM who are quick to suspend common sense and turn to the paranormal as the first and only explanation. Rationally speaking, the paranormal can be the possible explanation only when all scientific possibilities can be discounted.

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