Dante's Inferno describing Gravity 1300

[Harte]

9 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

And what about her petticoats?

Well, obviously, unless you're Dr. Smith from "Lost in Space," you can't mince without petticoats.

Harte

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Actually the Bible says in numerous places its round. Isaiah 40:22: He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.

The problem is people distort the meaning of phrases like four quarters of the Earth away from meaning in every direction to the earth instead being a flat shape like a square.

Nobody claim they thought the Earth was square. You do know that cirles can be flat don't you ? 

Actually most flat earthers think that it is a circle. Like this flat earth map:

If they knew the shape of the Earth why didn't they just say the "sphere of the Earth" instead of the circle ? 

Like I said the bible says nothing about the Earth being a sphere, no matter how much mental gymnastics you use. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Nobody claim they thought the Earth was square. You do know that cirles can be flat don't you ? 

Actually most flat earthers think that it is a circle. Like this flat earth map:

If they knew the shape of the Earth why didn't they just say the "sphere of the Earth" instead of the circle ? 

Like I said the bible says nothing about the Earth being a sphere, no matter how much mental gymnastics you use. 

The King James is not a true translation of ancient Hebrew Bibles. A lot of words are not translated properly which is why it says circle. Putting that aside, there is no assertion of the world being flat.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

7 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

The King James is not a true translation of ancient Hebrew Bibles. A lot of words are not translated properly which is why it says circle. Putting that aside, there is no assertion of the world being flat.

I think you will find that I never said the bible told the Earth is flat. Nor does it say that the Earths is a sphere. So my point is that you shouldn't try to argue the shape of the Earth based on the bible. 

Is it clear now ? 

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

The King James is not a true translation of ancient Hebrew Bibles. A lot of words are not translated properly which is why it says circle. Putting that aside, there is no assertion of the world being flat.

It's not that bad. Translation is complex, and merely rendering an exactly correct word-for-word conversion is hardly ever the point. It's more appropriate to understand the Bible is in no sense a science or history textbook. It's propaganda: the bad things that happen to people who don't believe in its version of god and the good things that happen to the people who do. It has no interest in objectively telling anything.

--Jaylemurph 

[Jarocal]

19 hours ago, Swede said:

Indeed! A gentleman after my own heart. One could then discuss the subtleties of counter-sinking the bone/antler scales prior to their attachment to a hand-forged blade with annealed brass pins. Or the remarkable functionality and durability of wood-pinned structures as opposed to ferric attachment methods, as witnessed by still existing structures.

We may, however, be veering somewhat away from Dante's Inferno (!). While likely to attract notably limited interest, discussions of technologies not restricted to splitting and hauling limestone blocks may be of interest to some. And this from one who is more than a passing student of lithic technology.

. 

I'm fairly certain humans learned of gravity in prehistoric times first one to shake an Osage Orange or Coconut tree with over ripe fruit would have figured it out. Dante just mentioned common knowledge in his writing.

Back to a more important aspect to the thread, sometimes I used metal tubing of various diameters and colored epoxy to rivet kife handles on a tang. Flare the first tube into the countersinks and arrange the others as desired. Full with epoxy and carefully abrade the excess back to the handle. I know a guy who uses a thin head of tortilla glue two of the old style brass buttons with the eyelet on the back and a wet leather cord wound about in grooves carved into the handle. Where the cord knits at the back of the handle he glues a metal end cap over.

[Hanslune]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:18 PM, jaylemurph said:

To be fair, gravity was invented by Our Past Basset Masters. I'm not sure how things worked before they did that, but we can all be thankful they did. 

--Jaylemurph 

Actually Kmt_sesh invented the world while dining with said sad beasts. He was complaining about the lack of cooking expertise by the alleged masters; I mean as it is recorded him saying, "really couldn't we have some gravity with these chunks of bloody meat'?

Kmt_sesh mistaking saying gravity instead of gravy, he added an 'it'.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Hanslune

[Swede]

On 11/11/2017 at 2:36 PM, Jarocal said:

I'm fairly certain humans learned of gravity in prehistoric times first one to shake an Osage Orange or Coconut tree with over ripe fruit would have figured it out. Dante just mentioned common knowledge in his writing.

Back to a more important aspect to the thread, sometimes I used metal tubing of various diameters and colored epoxy to rivet kife handles on a tang. Flare the first tube into the countersinks and arrange the others as desired. Full with epoxy and carefully abrade the excess back to the handle. I know a guy who uses a thin head of tortilla glue two of the old style brass buttons with the eyelet on the back and a wet leather cord wound about in grooves carved into the handle. Where the cord knits at the back of the handle he glues a metal end cap over.

A two-tiered topic? Interesting . May the moderators approve.

Primary topic: As far as the awareness of gravity, one could make an argument that our arboreal/semi-arboreal hominid ancestors were acutely aware of the effects of gravity. Certain misjudgments can be more painful than others. Some years ago a study was conducted that involved the study of fall-related injuries amongst modern primates. While the figures from that study are not immediately at hand, the percentage of healed fractures was notable. These figures naturally included only individuals who had not, in one manner or another, succumbed to their injuries.

Sub-topic: In keeping with the study of past technologies, you (and others) may wish to experiment with/utilize the following adhesive.

• It is likely fairly well known that conifer saps were utilized for sealing and waterproofing purposes. There are, however, the subtleties.
• Not all conifer saps are equal in their properties. Personal experimentation has demonstrated that the sap of the white spruce (Picea glauca), if available, is a preferred species.
• Collect the sap and heat. A “double boiler” of native clay ceramics works nicely and would be consistent with certain phases of past technology. Heat to a semi-viscous state and remove foreign organics. Modern substitutes for the ceramic containers would, of course, be acceptable for experimental purposes.
• The “trick”: With the sap in a semi-viscous state, add ~ 40% by volume of fully reduced (grey powder) wood ash. Mix thoroughly. The resulting product will be a black, tar-like substance.

The resulting compound, after application and cooling, will be a surprisingly durable and waterproof epoxy-like material. This “epoxy” was utilized in the hafting of projectile points, the fixing of Paleo-type knives in mammalian diaphyses, the sealing of bark containers, and the joint- sealing of canoes, amongst other utilizations.

Edit: Format.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Swede

[Opus Magnus]

I don't think it was common knowledge Dante had, but educated knowledge. Because there weren't really schools back then. He describes the center of gravity at the center of Lucifer's frozen lake, at the bottom of the universe, per Greek mythological wisdom of the shape of Tartarus. It seems like Newton is made into some sort of idolatry, that occults attention from other scientists. Even though Newton does deserve some credit.

As for the Bible, somewhere in Job it says the Earth is suspended on empty space. Whether that means what we think or not, it's a debated subject.

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

I don't think it was common knowledge Dante had, but educated knowledge. Because there weren't really schools back then.

 

Actually there were, the church ran most of them. At the time of Dante's life time there were a number of Universities operating in Europe at this time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_universities_in_continuous_operation#Founded_before_1500

In Dante's neck of the woods would have been the University of Bologna, Padua, Naples, Mascerata, plus many more. In his home town, area, the University of Florence started up in 1321 (Dante died in 1321) and the University of Perugia in 1308.

 

 

[jaylemurph]

3 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

I don't think it was common knowledge Dante had, but educated knowledge. Because there weren't really schools back then. He describes the center of gravity at the center of Lucifer's frozen lake, at the bottom of the universe, per Greek mythological wisdom of the shape of Tartarus. It seems like Newton is made into some sort of idolatry, that occults attention from other scientists. Even though Newton does deserve some credit.

As for the Bible, somewhere in Job it says the Earth is suspended on empty space. Whether that means what we think or not, it's a debated subject.

Get two fools together and they can debate anything. The fact that something is debatable doesn't necessarily imply it's /worth/ arguing about.

--Jaylemurph

[Jarocal]

7 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Get two fools together and they can debate anytdisagree hing. The fact that something is debatable doesn't necessarily imply it's /worth/ arguing about.

--Jaylemurph

I dissagree with your assertion. Care to debate the merits of the value of arguing about everything with me?

[Hanslune]

12 hours ago, Jarocal said:

I dissagree with your assertion. Care to debate the merits of the value of arguing about everything with me?

I shall set the debate question between Jarocal and Jaylemurph: To wit, 'is Jarocal a long-winded mumpsimus or is he a misunderstood saintly pillar of wisdom and intellectual piracy?'

[kmt_sesh]

2 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I shall set the debate question between Jarocal and Jaylemurph: To wit, 'is Jarocal a long-winded mumpsimus or is he a misunderstood saintly pillar of wisdom and intellectual piracy?'

Mumpsimus? Once again, good sir, you have sent me scrambling for a dictionary.

[Jarocal]

9 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I shall set the debate question between Jarocal and Jaylemurph: To wit, 'is Jarocal a long-winded mumpsimus or is he a misunderstood saintly pillar of wisdom and intellectual piracy?'

I want to argue for the long-winded mumpsimus side and I'll concede the intellectual piracy point to Jaylemurph leaving him to argue in favor of me be a misunderstood saintly pillar of wisdom. 

ETA- Make sure to let Rupert know I am having Chili-Cheese nachos at the moment. He can guess which brand chili...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Jarocal
Yea tho I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of furballs I will fear no feline.

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Jarocal said:

I want to argue for the long-winded mumpsimus side and I'll concede the intellectual piracy point to Jaylemurph leaving him to argue in favor of me be a misunderstood saintly pillar of wisdom. 

ETA- Make sure to let Rupert know I am having Chili-Cheese nachos at the moment. He can guess which brand chili...

He says he is tired but he said you sounded like someone who would eat STAGG chili by Hormel

[Piney]

On 11/10/2017 at 7:33 PM, Swede said:

We may, however, be veering somewhat away from Dante's Inferno (!). While likely to attract notably limited interest, discussions of technologies not restricted to splitting and hauling limestone blocks may be of interest to some. And this from one who is more than a passing student of lithic technology.

. 

When splitting any stone to shape you do not just look at the flaws or patterns. The "feel" of the initial test strike will tell you more about the quality of the stone itself. But if you decide to temper the material "low and slow" with fire and wet sand you test strike might provide a different feel and the material could become usable.

 

[ShadowSot]

I know in school I was taught a few times that Colombia showed the Earth was round. Lot of pop media too. And it popped up in one of the pop science magazines. 

Wouldn't going back to what the early Hebrew and Jewish believed about the cosmos tell us what was intended by the Old Testament? 

[Swede]

On 11/13/2017 at 8:15 PM, Piney said:

When splitting any stone to shape you do not just look at the flaws or patterns. The "feel" of the initial test strike will tell you more about the quality of the stone itself. But if you decide to temper the material "low and slow" with fire and wet sand you test strike might provide a different feel and the material could become usable.

 

Good points. Each specimen, even if from adjacent areas of the same formation, will have its own nature. Not to mention the variability in glacially transported materials. When conducting lithic technology classes it is not uncommon for me to advise the students of the individual nature of each specimen and that they need to let the material “talk” to them in regards to the manner in which it needs to be worked. Some igneous materials such as dacite can, in my experience, be particularly “grain sensitive”.

And heat treating. An extensive topic that has seen an appreciable amount of research in recent decades. One of the more interesting aspects is the temporal depth of the practice. Current studies support the utilization of heat treating as early as 110,000-90,000 BP (Domanski and Webb 2016) with some supporting dates as early as 164,000 BP (Brown et al 2009). As heat treating processes are rather sophisticated, the utilization of the technology speaks well to the cognitive transformations associated with H.s.s.

In regards to the “low and slow” aspect, you may find the following to be of interest. Mercieca and Hiscock (2008) suggest that smaller specimens can be subjected to more intense temperatures than are more commonly utilized.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440308000988

The following papers may also be of interest to those not familiar with the heat treatment of lithic specimens in order to improve their flaking properties.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544031100330X

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030544039290031W

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01977261.2007.11721052

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/325/5942/859

Edit: Font.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Swede

[Piney]

9 minutes ago, Swede said:

In regards to the “low and slow” aspect, you may find the following to be of interest. Mercieca and Hiscock (2008) suggest that smaller specimens can be subjected to more intense temperatures than are more commonly utilized.

I stick with the local stuff. Pennsauken cherts and Cohansey quartzite. The cherts can be tempered with high temperature after they are already shaped but with the quartzite just falls apart, even the smallest chips.

 That post was what I remembered from a Jack Cresson lecture, who I thought you were referring too

[Jarocal]

3 hours ago, Swede said:

. When conducting lithic technology classes it is not uncommon for me to advise the students of the individual nature of each specimen and that they need to let the material “talk” to them in regards to the manner in which it needs to be worked. Some igneous materials such as dacite can, in my experience, be particularly “grain sensitive”.

 

While the majority of my stonework has a rather generous tolerance in regard to variation, I do agree with the material " will talk to you" assertion that you made. After spending decades smacking various rocks with blunt objects I can pretty much look at a piece of limestone, granite, schist, flint, quartz, or chert and tell how it will want to break. It is a guilty pleasure of mine to watch a new(ish) apprentice try and use that shiny new chipping hammer to take a sliver off of a piece of limestone veneer only to strike it at the wrong angle or wrong side and have to set the incorrectly cut piece aside and grab another to make fit. Limestone is relatively cheap and rather bland. I would shudder to see what some students of yours do to a beautiful piece of flint or obsidian.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Jarocal
Yea tho I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of furballs I will fear no feline.

[Hanslune]

7 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

While the majority of my stonework has a rather generous tolerance in regard to variation, I do agree with the material " will talk to you" assertion that you made. After spending decades smacking various rocks with blunt objects I can pretty much look at a piece of limestone, granite, schist, flint, quartz, or chert and tell how it will want to break. It is a guilty pleasure of mine to watch a new(ish) apprentice try and use that shiny new chipping hammer to take a sliver off of a piece of limestone veneer only to strike it at the wrong angle or wrong side and have to set the incorrectly cut piece aside and grab another to make fit. Limestone is relatively cheap and rather bland. I would shudder to see what some students of yours do to a beautiful piece of flint or obsidian.

I murdered a great deal of obsidian and flint when learning how to make stone tools - as you say after awhile - a few months in my case - one could start to 'feel' the stone and know where it was best to strike or press.

[Harte]

Well, all I can say is chickens fear me.

Harte

[Jarocal]

19 hours ago, Hanslune said:

I murdered a great deal of obsidian and flint when learning how to make stone tools - as you say after awhile - a few months in my case - one could start to 'feel' the stone and know where it was best to strike or press.

Should have started with Quartz and Quartzite...

[Hanslune]

17 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Should have started with Quartz and Quartzite...

Well my uni got a big boulder of both free so that was that.