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The Russian Hare

Venezuela defaults on its debt

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Venezuela, a nation spiraling into a humanitarian crisis, has missed a debt payment. It could soon face grim consequences.

The South American country defaulted on its debt, according to a statement issued Monday night by S&P Global Ratings. The agency said the 30-day grace period had expired for a payment that was due in October.

A debt default risks setting off a dangerous series of events that could exacerbate Venezuela's food and medical shortages.

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/14/news/economy/venezuela-debt-default-sp/index.html

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6 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

That is the result of socialism... hope Venezuela is happy.

Socialism, in a way, yes. Liberalism, not at all.

...and I doubt that they're "happy".

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2 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Socialism, in a way, yes. Liberalism, not at all.

...and I doubt that they're "happy".

Liberalism is just proto-Socialism.  That is why it quickly absorbed the Democrats so long ago.

How many more examples do people need of Socialism and tyranny before they learn the lesson?  Get a clue.  Because it hasn't had the right person running it, with all those that have tried, means it doesn't work.  There is no one person or group that can make it work.

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16 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Liberalism is just proto-Socialism.  That is why it quickly absorbed the Democrats so long ago.

How many more examples do people need of Socialism and tyranny before they learn the lesson?  Get a clue.  Because it hasn't had the right person running it, with all those that have tried, means it doesn't work.  There is no one person or group that can make it work.

And Capitalism doesn't work for everyone either and Conservatism is stuck still in the Dark Ages...

...yadda, yadda, yadda.

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1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

And Capitalism doesn't work for everyone either and Conservatism is stuck still in the Dark Ages...

...yadda, yadda, yadda.

Wrong on both accounts.

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2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

...yadda, yadda, yadda.

Edit: Strangely I meant to quote myself.

Edited by Likely Guy
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9 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

That is the result of socialism... hope Venezuela is happy.

No that's not really accurate. 

The correct statement is that is the result of being a socialist nation which the US works for decades to bring down.  

CIA director admits involvement in Venezuela 

Literally decades and hundreds of millions have been spent by the US to take down the government of Venezuela. 

Maybe they would have failed, maybe they would have proven socialism doesn't work, but we will never know. 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

...yadda, yadda, yadda.

typical defeatist argument.

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3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No that's not really accurate. 

The correct statement is that is the result of being a socialist nation which the US works for decades to bring down.  

CIA director admits involvement in Venezuela 

Literally decades and hundreds of millions have been spent by the US to take down the government of Venezuela. 

Maybe they would have failed, maybe the would have proven socialism doesn't work, but we will never know. 

 

No doubt of our involvement but it still shows that Socialism doesn't work.  Socialism is unstable and it doesn't take much to bring down an unstable government.  It was close here but if we had anything else than the Republic we do, Obama would have collapsed this nation easily.  Trump is fairly neutral as far as allowing our Republic to heal .  Even though we have Antifa, BLM, MSM, Progressives, and Hilary using this nation as a play thing, our Republic is strong and stable.  A stable government can't be brought down by external influence.

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:rolleyes:

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19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No that's not really accurate. 

The correct statement is that is the result of being a socialist nation which the US works for decades to bring down.  

CIA director admits involvement in Venezuela 

Literally decades and hundreds of millions have been spent by the US to take down the government of Venezuela. 

Maybe they would have failed, maybe they would have proven socialism doesn't work, but we will never know. 

 

Translation...give us your oil exclusively for cheap,or well there is no or!!!

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30 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Translation...give us your oil exclusively for cheap,or well there is no or!!!

Do you really think that creating that instability is worth the oil from a nation that only supplies about 6% of our oil sources?  That's that a good ROI.

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11 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Do you really think that creating that instability is worth the oil from a nation that only supplies about 6% of our oil sources?  That's that a good ROI.

It's not about what i think RH,it's just how our country has operated when concerning oil rich nations around the world for half a century now...

Who knows they may be/have been planning on upping that 6% for awhile or keep it as a personal reserve.

Well awhile back the Don was discussing the possibility of sending troops that way to help "stabilize" the situation so...when was the last time we sent troops somewhere with a vast oil supply and just left willingly?

Our gov seems to find it a good return of interest any time they sow chaos and discord ANYWHERE!...even if it's just for the hell of it

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Even the Mexican president didnt like Maduro, even if the US didnt, Mexcio and Colombia and maybe Brazil would do a trade block on Venezuela. Anyway the sanctions dont help but Maduro did nothing and blamed everyone else

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6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Do you really think that creating that instability is worth the oil from a nation that only supplies about 6% of our oil sources?  That's that a good ROI.

You are thinking locally.  Have to think globally with other countries.  Venezuela is one of the worlds largest exporter of oil.  A strategic asset that we have proven that we would interfere for in many other instances.

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7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

No that's not really accurate. 

The correct statement is that is the result of being a socialist nation which the US works for decades to bring down.  

CIA director admits involvement in Venezuela 

Literally decades and hundreds of millions have been spent by the US to take down the government of Venezuela. 

Maybe they would have failed, maybe they would have proven socialism doesn't work, but we will never know. 

 

They were thriving when oil prices were high. They just stupidly put all their eggs in one basket, did not diversify their economy, and spent too freely, not saving for when times would be tough. 

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7 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

It's not about what i think RH,it's just how our country has operated when concerning oil rich nations around the world for half a century now...

Who knows they may be/have been planning on upping that 6% for awhile or keep it as a personal reserve.

Well awhile back the Don was discussing the possibility of sending troops that way to help "stabilize" the situation so...when was the last time we sent troops somewhere with a vast oil supply and just left willingly?

Our gov seems to find it a good return of interest any time they sow chaos and discord ANYWHERE!...even if it's just for the hell of it

 

57 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You are thinking locally.  Have to think globally with other countries.  Venezuela is one of the worlds largest exporter of oil.  A strategic asset that we have proven that we would interfere for in many other instances.

First an eta: I did mean to say, “That's not a good ROI.”.  But I think the intent came through anyway?

Secondly, *I* wasn’t thinking locally.  I was replying to a post in kind.  Oil is the life blood of this planet so we, as well as everybody else has more than a passing interest in securing this resource for the entire market.  That is really our only interest in this product.  As mentioned before, about 6-8 % of our crude imports come from Venezuela, however, that comes to almost half of their exports of crude and crude makes up ¾ of their exports.  Their oil production has been dwindling by about 11% per year for the past 5 years according to sources.  They produce heavy crude and it is increasingly contaminated.  There are cheaper more reliable sources of heavy crude in California and Canada.  That is what the keystone was to provide.

It is true that we have interfered with most if not all governments of Central and South America from time to time, among other places like Israel and Ukraine.  Just like Russia.  In the case of Venezuela, I don’t think we are behind their collapse.  Obama was smitten by Chavez and I’m sure he ordered the Deep State to keep hands off.  After a year under Trump, the Deep State is still in turmoil with many Obama holdovers that I don’t think we’ve had time or organization to interfere into Venezuela.  I think they’ve done it to themselves.  Again, showcasing what Socialism does.  Socialism requires absolute power but Maduro doesn’t command that, just like most wannabe despots.  And as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 It’s the Monroe Doctrine that gives us the right to sow a little chaos and discord, but it’s not like its paradise in these other nations in the first place.  We are simply fighting chaos and discord with chaos and discord to find stability and Pro-American governments without having to do all-out nation building.  I don’t think it’s ever been just for the hell of it.  But the last oil rich nation we willingly pulled out of was Iraq and look what happened.  It was as if we were never there and things are going to just get worse.  It would have been far better for the world if we had stayed, but that’s another story.

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21 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

First an eta: I did mean to say, “That's not a good ROI.”.  But I think the intent came through anyway?

 

Secondly, *I* wasn’t thinking locally.  I was replying to a post in kind.  Oil is the life blood of this planet so we, as well as everybody else has more than a passing interest in securing this resource for the entire market.  That is really our only interest in this product.  As mentioned before, about 6-8 % of our crude imports come from Venezuela, however, that comes to almost half of their exports of crude and crude makes up ¾ of their exports.  Their oil production has been dwindling by about 11% per year for the past 5 years according to sources.  They produce heavy crude and it is increasingly contaminated.  There are cheaper more reliable sources of heavy crude in California and Canada.  That is what the keystone was to provide.

 

It is true that we have interfered with most if not all governments of Central and South America from time to time, among other places like Israel and Ukraine.  Just like Russia.  In the case of Venezuela, I don’t think we are behind their collapse.  Obama was smitten by Chavez and I’m sure he ordered the Deep State to keep hands off.  After a year under Trump, the Deep State is still in turmoil with many Obama holdovers that I don’t think we’ve had time or organization to interfere into Venezuela.  I think they’ve done it to themselves.  Again, showcasing what Socialism does.  Socialism requires absolute power but Maduro doesn’t command that, just like most wannabe despots.  And as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

 It’s the Monroe Doctrine that gives us the right to sow a little chaos and discord, but it’s not like its paradise in these other nations in the first place.  We are simply fighting chaos and discord with chaos and discord to find stability and Pro-American governments without having to do all-out nation building.  I don’t think it’s ever been just for the hell of it.  But the last oil rich nation we willingly pulled out of was Iraq and look what happened.  It was as if we were never there and things are going to just get worse.  It would have been far better for the world if we had stayed, but that’s another story.

 

I got that you meant "not" ;)

I can see some of what you are saying,but as for the "not thinking it was just for the hell of it" and "willingly pulled out of and far better if we had stayed"...well much like Afghanistan we weren't ever "truly" wanted there and our going there in the first place and toppling their regime is why they became a WORLD problem to begin with...

yeah it is another story...

eta

We had to go into Afghanistan,but Iraq we certainly did not...

Edited by CrimsonKing

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14 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

No doubt of our involvement but it still shows that Socialism doesn't work.  Socialism is unstable and it doesn't take much to bring down an unstable government.  It was close here but if we had anything else than the Republic we do, Obama would have collapsed this nation easily.  Trump is fairly neutral as far as allowing our Republic to heal .  Even though we have Antifa, BLM, MSM, Progressives, and Hilary using this nation as a play thing, our Republic is strong and stable.  A stable government can't be brought down by external influence.

Socialism doesn’t work .... because the most powerful nation on Earth decided to ruin their country. The later doesn’t prove the former.

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Same old thing; the Left defends Socialism and blames the USA for EVERYTHING

Shall we get into the specifics of what went wrong in Venezuela, instead of making this all about us... again?

 

Oddly enough, the world does not revolve around us, you know. Things happen that don't even involve us every day, and nobody needs our permission or our benevolent guidance to make their own country work.

I know its a blow to the ol' ego, but thats just the way it is. 

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On 11/15/2017 at 5:35 AM, Farmer77 said:

No that's not really accurate. 

The correct statement is that is the result of being a socialist nation which the US works for decades to bring down.  

CIA director admits involvement in Venezuela 

Literally decades and hundreds of millions have been spent by the US to take down the government of Venezuela. 

Maybe they would have failed, maybe they would have proven socialism doesn't work, but we will never know. 

 

Umm... that linked article is highly suspect. Firstly, the CIA director did NOT admit involvement in Venezuela. He made some comment in a summit that they where "trying to understand the dynamics" of Venezuela. The Pakistan Herald Tribune then put words into his mouth. 

There is NO evidence presented, merely an uncorroborated allegation. It's also worth noting that this newspaper is reckoned to have a strong socialist editorial stance. In that light, they would probably blame the CIA for EVERYTHING as a matter of doctrine. :) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Express_Tribune

Mind you... if you blame the CIA for EVERTHING, then you're bound to be right SOME of the time. It's like the stopped clock: it shows the correct time twice per day :) 

Edited by RoofGardener

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On 11/15/2017 at 0:14 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Socialism doesn’t work .... because the most powerful nation on Earth decided to ruin their country. The later doesn’t prove the former.

No socialism doesn't work because a bunch of humans see the desires of the individual as paramount to the needs of society.  Myself included.  Most of us want to see others fail if that is required for those we love to succeed.  I want my family to succeed above all else, then friends.  Somewhere in that list is social group, geographical area and Nation. 

Generally I think of people who don't think the same as bad.  As in you don't do all you can for your family?  WTF.  You don't want your city to prosper and be nice? Jerk.

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lol  cuba, nk, ussr ,venezuala,  and every Warsaw pakt country, are these examples  not enough to see that socialism does not work?

Edited by aztek

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pure socialism doesn't work, pure capitalism doesn't work. Mixed economies are imo preferable - however the optimum balance needs to found. At the minute the pendulum in the west is too much on the Capitalist side.

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